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  1. #1
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    Todd, just wanted some clarification of CJ wanting us to include physical address and phone # in our newsletters. I guess you're trying to cover yourselves but the SPAM ACT pertains to unsolicited commercial email not solicited/opt in. As far as i can see CJ is the only network requiring this? So possible lost business to CJ merchants if i can't use any of them in my newsletters since i have no plans of putting my phone # or address in my newsletters. The CAN SPAM act is for unsolicited commercial email which requires address/phone # but the CJ agreement is for opt in newsletters too?

  2. #2
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    I agree with your logic. However, don't you think that even though they have opted in for your newsletter(s) that there could be a chance that they forgot this and now consider the newsletter/email spam? Shouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt and fully comply with the Spam law(s) and include the required information, like telephone number and address?

    Seems logical to me.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  3. #3
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    Todd--

    It may seem logical to you, but I'm not willing to put my home address or phone number on newsletters that I send out. Since you're so comfortable with it, can I put your information on there?

    Michael

  4. #4
    Pimp Duck popdawg's Avatar
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    I was under the impression the phone number is not required.

    <-- heads off to re-read

    Education is Key
    Parasiteware.com


    Game on!!!! - The DawgFather

  5. #5
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    Todd, first my newsletters are double opt in, so they know they're going to get a newsletter. Plus at any time if they wish to stop receiving the newsletter, there is a link in each newsletter where they can opt out at any time or they can email me to cancel. If i remember correctly CJ was touting email marketing as making a comeback at CJU?

    "Shouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt and fully comply with the Spam law(s) and include the required information, like telephone number and address?"

    What SPAM law? If you're talking about the CAN SPAM ACT thats for UNSOLICITED commercial email, the title of the Act tells the intent: CAN SPAM not CAN OPT IN NEWSLETTERS and if you read the act itself you will see the word Unsolicited everywhere and the law doesn't require address and phone # for opt in mail just Unsolicited commercial email. So it doesn't seem logical for CJ to be the only network requiring (as far as i can see) that ALL mail have phone # and address and for CJ to have stronger restrictions then the CAN SPAM act itself that brought all of this about. Maybe CJ merchants should run an inhouse program as an option or i just have to advertise merchants from other networks.

    Edited to add: The only part in the act where i see they want a phycical address is under UNSOLICITED. And if you have a double opt in newsletter, then its clearly solicited and this law doesn't apply.

    (5) INCLUSION OF IDENTIFIER, OPT-OUT, AND PHYSICAL ADDRESS IN UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL ELECTRONIC MAIL- It is unlawful for any person to initiate the transmission of any unsolicited commercial electronic mail message to a protected computer unless the message provides--

    (A) clear and conspicuous identification that the message is an advertisement or solicitation;

    (B) clear and conspicuous notice of the opportunity under paragraph (3) to decline to receive further unsolicited commercial electronic mail messages from the sender; and

    (C) a valid physical postal address of the sender.

    So no biggie, just no CJ merchants in my newsletters. Also i'm sure there will be some affiliates breaking these rules some intentionally some unintentionally. What are the penalties? A warning? 60 days to comply?

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on December 30, 2003 at 02:35 PM.]

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    Shouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt and fully comply with the Spam law(s) and include the required information, like telephone number and address?



    Absolutely NOT!!!

    I don't use you in my newsletter, anyhow, so for me it is a moot question. But, I have a PAGAN/WITCH relevant newsletter. You want me to put my physical address in there so what, some fruitcakes can come and try to burn my residence down? Are you bonkers? Or, do you just think no controversial sites should have advertisers even if the advertisers want to be there? Or, do you just think controversial newsletters should shut up and go away? Or, do you just think controversial newsletters should just take their chances like everyone else and if you get hurt, if the people you love get hurt, well, that's just the price you pay for being different? This is nuts!

    And, even for non-controversial sites it is dangerous. You never know who is going to read some innocent thing and take it the wrong way. Anyone putting their actual location on a newsletter, going to Goddess knows who, isn't taking proper care for themselves and those who love them.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    It does not state anywhere that a phone number is required. I have read thru it many times. Not there.
    So why should CJ require something that the Act does not require?

    SSanf, obviously people on your list want to be, right? So why would they want to harm you? If there were loonies on your list that have problems with the content, wouldn't they already be bugging you?

  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Uh, right and only Pagans go into Pagan chat rooms, too. OK.

    It only takes one loonie.

    What makes you think people don't bug me? I get people trying to change my direction from time to time and trust me, they aren't the most stable lot.

    Connie are you REALLY willing to send out your address and phone number to thousands of strangers? Do you have children at home?

    Heck, even listing an obviously female name in the phone book gets harrassing phone calls from sexual deviants. CJ must be nuts!

    As Trust pointed out the law does NOT require this. CJ is demanding that affiliates either stop using this source for income or put themselves at totally unecessary risk.

    Great going, CJ. You really thought that one through!

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on December 30, 2003 at 03:14 PM.]

  9. #9
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    Connie, when you login at CJ click Review the new Email Compliance Rules
    and it says
    "Email Ads Must Contain Clear Identification - Messages containing advertisements or solicitations must be identified as such, and do so by "clear and conspicuous" means. Further, the sender must identify itself as the initiator and sender of the email including company name, email and physical address and phone number."

    So the CAN SPAM act asks for a physical address for UNSOLICITED commercial email but CJ wants you to list address and phone # for ALL mail, even solicited opt in newsletters.

    "So why should CJ require something that the Act does not require?"

    Don't know why CJ wants more than the FTC, i just know a lot of LinkShare merchants will be happy. FTC isn't looking to get affiliates with opt in newsletters or merchants with newsletters, they want SPAMMERS. SPAM/unsolicited being different from solicited/opt in.

  10. #10
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    How's this for irony...

    The CJ interface "protects the privacy" of affiliates by not giving merchants affiliate phone numbers, email addresses, mailing addresses, etc.

    YET...

    The new CJ rule REQUIRES affilites to provide their PHYSICAL postal address AND phone number in every newsletter they send out.

    Doesn't make much sense to me.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Anyone that wants to get my address can get it from Whois and other sources. Not that hard if someone wants it.
    Heck, when those goons from Wurld Media came last year they had no problem finding me.
    I really don't have a problem with giving out my address. It is pretty much public info the way it is.

    If nothing else, if I have to resort to police protection it will give our small town officers something to do besides have coffee and donuts at the local cafe...It might even make the papers and bring me more business!

  12. #12
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    You guys are blowing this out of proportion. Don't jump all over me for taking the time to provide my 2 cents. I answered a few questions and gave my opinion. If you have double opt-in email lists and anyone ever accuses you of spamming them, you are better protected if you comply with the CAN SPAM ACT than if you do not.

    I am checking with our legal on exactly how this affects publishers. It may be the case that you do not need to include addresses and phone numbers if the lists are double opt-in but then this leaves things wide open for people to spam anyway and say the lists were double opt-in. If this stuff starts then you guys will suffer because more and more advertisers will prohibit email promotions.

    Chill out until I get more information.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    But Todd, you guys are requiring a phone number and the Spam Act doesn't......

  14. #14
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    But Connie, I am checking with legal to see if this is actually the case...

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    But Todd, all you have to do is read the act and see for yourself....NO mention of phone number required...

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Let even one affiliate get hurt because they complied with this unecessary requirement from CJ and then see what the CJ lawyers have to say.

    Don't think it can't happen, either. If only one whacko gets ticked because they feel some merchant did them wrong, it may just be YOUR site and newsletter they remember. We are dealing with hundreds of thousands of people out there in the web. Some of them aren't all that well balanced. It only takes one to go off and lose it.

    Sure, they might be able to find you in whois but most haven't even heard of whois. And, needing to look it up and search for you is entirely different than having your address shoved in their face.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on December 30, 2003 at 05:38 PM.]

  17. #17
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    double post

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on December 30, 2003 at 05:39 PM.]

  18. #18
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    When i read the act i see UNSOLICITED and SPAM which newsletters aren't, so i don't even see how this act applies to affiliates with newsletters. And if you use double opt in the person signing up agrees to receive the newsletter so legally they can't say you're a spammer since they double opted in to get it. I see more revisions to this act to make everything a little clearer and i know CJ is just trying to cover the bases but even the SPAM act doesn't ask for a phone # plus they're asking for an address only for Unsolicited mail.

    "If you have double opt-in email lists and anyone ever accuses you of spamming them,"

    Thats the whole reason double opt in came about, using double opt in, you're already protected from people accusing you of spamming, plus also having an opt out link in every newsletter. Plus its good to use to make sure their email address can receive newsletters because some can't because of filters. And i like to make sure they want it so i don't waste my money on sending newsletters to people who don't want it in the first place.

  19. #19
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I completely agree with Ssanf!

    Just think of what the news usually says after someone loses it and does some heinous act: "We never would have suspected...he was such a quiet guy...never caused trouble..."

    That isn't the guy who's likely to send flames before showing up to make "that person" who sent him the "evil newsletter" the next statistic.

    And by "evil newsletter" I mean he THINKS it's evil, not that it actually promoted anything controversial. It may just have been a gardening newsletter, but if a nut has a delusion centering on something mentioned in it (for instance, a certain kind of plant, or a certain company), then it may take on a significance to the nut that the author never intended!

    It's the most wonderful time of the year!~Old Christmas Song

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    I answered a few questions and gave my opinion.


    You have no opinion. If you ever did, it is now buried so deep you will never find it.

    You absorb anything and everything CJ bosses tell you and shove it into the place where your opinion ought to reside.

    If your opinion ever resurfaces, you won't know what it is and it will scare the dickens out of you.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  21. #21
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    for CJ!
    It should be a normal business practice to show your identity, (business name, phone numer, and address) while sending out an email.

    No matter what type of email!
    Pete

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Mokum,

    Get some boof or a pair of boofs at your door then clap, not before!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  23. #23
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    Why not just get yourself a PO Box and use that for your address...No phone number is required as Connie & Todd have mentioned...

  24. #24
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    A physical postal address is required. My understanding is that a PO Box is not considered a physical postal address.

    CAN-SPAM doesn't require a phone number, but CJ appears to. Hopefully, they will eliminate that requirement.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador ktmkiddy's Avatar
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    I am UK based with a US website and have a UK PO Box address. Most people are happy with a PO Box address as the mail is delivered exactly the same as normal mail.

    If you are in the UK the cost is £53 for a PO Box or £100 per year if you want the PO Box mail delivered to your home with your normal personal post.

    Malc

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