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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think Mike and Charley are right to an extent. In house is the smart way for a merchant to go. Andy and Linda made the right moves. AM's should have a string of merchants that they represent and have an ABW forum for the purpose of that representation. As we have seen, many will follow an AM of good repute faster than a particular merchant.

    Of course, getting the message about in-house programs to active affiliates will be the problem. ABW may become the clearing house where merchants and affiliates meet up. Thus assuming one of the biggest functions of a network.

    I recomend that Haiko make a directory where available in house merchants can be listed and categorised for free and where they can give a brief description of their program with contact information. Many free listings will later hire professional AMs and want their own forums.

    This could be a real opportunity for ABW.

    Should Haiko do this it would behoove us to advise as many in house merchants as we can of the availability of the directory. The more merchants we populate it with, the more we will all have to benefit from. And, we can get the word out without spamming since we have good reason to contact the merchants many that we already know.

    This can become close to an affiliate driven network, right here and now.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on October 11, 2003 at 10:58 AM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    What we need is a new pure network with consolidated payments.

  3. #3
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    I generally prefer in house programs over these canned things. Tracking commissions is not rocket science. The sales portion is generally the hardest thing to program.

    The only big problems with in house programs is that they do a horrible job getting the word out, and there are enough bogus in house programs that it difficult for affiliates to know which are or are not legit.

  4. #4
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    That' true. But, the bogus ones will be outed here. And very soon at that. Keeping their listing free is the key. They won't be able to grease any palms. It will be sink or swim om merit.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well I'll discuss this very issue with Andy-Linda-Chris and Akiva and see if there is a way to screen out those who don't convert for all.... better then 1 sale per 150 clicks. No since posting the thousands of "not ready for prime time" duds and wasting value AM time policing affiliates and merchants.

    There has to be born a safe haven for guaranteeing results if best practices are followed. The theme is getting MORE sales from LESS traffic demanding real commission partnerships.

    _______________________
    "Charlie and I refuse all suicide missions and can only offer advice and safe haven for those merchants who want out of this Ad whore rat race. Any merchants who have in-demand well priced goods or unique niche' products willing to suffer paying out commissions to non-incent affiliates can apply to me or Andy Rodreguez to run their AM program. Major hurdle to get accepted and taken under wing is you have to guarantee 1 sale per 150 targeted clicks or pay a per click penality fee. Conversely any affiliate not averaging 1 sale per 150 pre-sold clicks gets put on a probation period with the above converting merchant. Just like in a real sales force senerio, those not willing to put forth focused efforts need not apply. Conversion ratios rule this game plan as the affiliate can be assured their presell efforts -time and SEO expenses will pay off."


    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Besides the thousand other things, I've been working on just this ... sample of the template -> http://www.abestweb.com/directory/ and yes it will be free.

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    What we need is a new pure network with consolidated payments.


    That would be nice, too. But, then, you may LIKE the "new improved Cj", mighten you? This would be for in house.

    The great advantage to in house that would offset the consolidated payments currently offered by CJ would be the ability to communicate with affiliates and masses of potential affiliates in an open discussion setting possible through ABW.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    As always, Haiko ahead of the game.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!

    Farewell, CJ! I loved you when you were young and pure. I will try to remember you that way. Disclaimer: Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  9. #9
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    What is biggest fear with Independant programs?

    I would guess the fear of being paid, right?
    Not really, if we weren't paid that would come to everyones attention real quick.

    If a program has no complaints say for 90 days they are worth trying. After 6 months your well assured if no problems have been reported.

    What all the network merchants should do NOW is contact there affiliates and ask them if they would move to an inhouse program and then up the commision 2-3% to us instead of the network.

    Can you imagine the networks seeing thousands of affiliate commisions going bye bye.

    If you agree how can this ball get rolling.

    Mary

  10. #10
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    Just found this from Kowabunga.

    Let's take a look at a few of these points and learn more about the benefits of running your own in-house program with the help of an outsourced Affiliate Manager instead of giving up Affiliate Ownership to the networks.




    The Downside of Affiliate Networks

    One of the biggest fears that new Affiliate Managers have is in finding new Affiliates. Affiliate Networks seem to have the answer to this fear - they already have Affiliates "waiting for you". Large networks boast thousands of Affiliates that you'll "have access to" once you join.

    What they fail to tell you is that each of these thousands already belongs to at least one other Affiliate Program. Plus - out of the thousands of Affiliates, only a certain percentage will share your interests and target market. So, out of the few hundred Affiliates that may be interested in joining your program - you'll have to find those that are willing to leave the program that they currently belong to, or at least consider adding your product/services to their offerings.

    Obviously, farming the existing network Affiliate base isn't going to get you thousands of Affiliates. You still need to go looking for Affiliates to make your program a true success.

    "Don't worry," you say, "I'll just place my program in a few Affiliate Program Directories, run a couple of ads in e-zines announcing my program and contact site owners that I feel may be good Affiliates. I can get people to sign up for my program that way."

    Well, you can definitely get people to sign up that way -- but don't be fooled into thinking that they are signing up for your program. Each person that you recruit is actually signing up for the Network and may not even end up promoting you at all. As members of the Network, these new Affiliates can be recruited by any of the other merchants in the network. As a matter of fact, a person from CJ.com Affiliate Network (who asked to have their name removed from this site) says, "The majority of our Affiliates belong to at least 10 programs."

    In a Network, you are constantly in competition with other merchants for the attention of the available Affiliates. And you can imagine how frustrating it would be to sign up Affiliates, only to have them taken away by other Merchants in your Affiliate Network. With each new program that your Affiliates join, their loyalty and commitment to you fades.

    Remember that in an Affiliate Network, the relationship is not between the merchant (you) and the Affiliate. It is between the Network and the Affiliate. Through this relationship, the Network is able to refer it's Affiliates to you and other merchants.

    If you are running your own Affiliate Program with the help of an Outsourced Affiliate Manager, you can have targeted Affiliate Recruitment. Along with answering Affiliate questions and getting the monthly newsletter together - your Affiliate Manager can also find and recruit new Affiliates.

    These won't be general Affiliates or Affiliates that have no interest in a program like yours. They'll be hand-picked individuals who are perfectly suited for your program.

    A typical Outsourced Affiliate Manager will have the knowledge, skills, tools and contacts available to find and recruit perfect Affiliates for your program. Most have been in the business and have learned where to look, how to approach Affiliates, and how to reel them in.






    What You Pay for Affiliate Networks

    No matter which Affiliate solution you choose, there are going to be costs involved with setting it up and running it. Most solution providers charge a setup fee ranging anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars. Most providers also charge a monthly fee or an annual fee for support, maintenance and data hosting.

    You'll find that Networks also charge a "commission" fee on top of the setup and monthly or annual fees. This fee is a set percentage of the commission amount you pay Affiliates.

    For example: If the network charges a 30% commission fee and you pay $5,000 in commissions in one month - you'll owe the Network $1,500. The next month, when your Affiliates earn $10,000 in commissions - you'll owe the Network $3,000, and so on and so on as your program builds.

    What you're paying for:


    • "Access to thousands of Affiliates" - Remember, the Affiliates in a Network belong to the Network. So - when "their" Affiliates generate sales for you - you pay them a commission. Even if you recruit your own Affiliates into the Network - you'll still have to pay the Network for the sales generated by that Affiliate!
    • Check writing - Networks combine the commissions earned by each Affiliate across the board for each program they belong to and cut them one check once they have reached the minimum threshold. Several My Affiliate Program clients use PayPal to pay their Affiliates. PayPal charges a fee of 2% with a $1 cap per payment for uploads of Affiliate payments. So - all you have to do is upload the payment information and PayPal will distribute the funds - for only 2% of your total with a $1 cap per payment.
    • Periodic newsletter - Newsletters, updates and other communications will be sent to Affiliates from the Network. You may be mentioned in these - as a new merchant or if you're running a special deal. And, your Affiliates may get some useful information about online marketing that they can use to promote your site. But, in general, communications will be about the network and will cover a wide range of merchants - even your competitors.

    If you run an inhouse program with an Outsourced Affiliate Manager, your Affiliates can receive great information about your products, updates and links. They may be able to receive these through a Network also - but you'll have to compile the newsletter and you'll probably have to pay the Network an extra fee to send it out to your Affiliates.

    • Affiliate support - Networks have support departments that answer email and sometimes phone calls from Affiliates who have questions, problems or concerns. An outsourced Affiliate Manager can give you the same type of support - but at a more personal level. Affiliates can call and write about linking material and commission rates and other specific items that your Affiliate Manager can help them with. You'll need someone on hand to answer these types of specific questions even if you're using a Network to run your program. Why pay a Network to handle questions when you'll have your own Affiliate Manager answering questions as well...?

    How Affiliate Networks control you and your Affiliates

    The biggest cost in not owning your Affiliates is having little to no control over the Affiliate program that you supposedly own. When a network owns your Affiliates they choose what your Affiliates see, what offers are sent to them, which programs are marketed to them, when they are paid, their minimum commission amount and more. Giving the network control over all of these things can cost you more than just profits.




    • What your Affiliates see - The network controls what banners, links, logos and other advertising media your Affiliates see on their Affiliate Administration page. This means that you lose a large amount of your marketing tools to the Affiliate network, and are in constant danger of losing the Affiliates you do have to other Merchants or to the network itself.
    • What offers are sent to Affiliates - The network can send your Affiliates any offers for products, services and other Affiliate Programs - another advertising venue you'll be giving up to the network.
    • Which programs are marketed to Affiliates - The network can and will offer other programs to your Affiliates. The network is in business to make money -- right? So what programs do you think they are going to push -- those that earn them $100 per month, or those that pay them $10,000 each month? Plus - if it is the network promoting additional programs to the Affiliates instead of you - you're loosing out on second tier commissions!
    • How you communicate with them - Many networks require that you communicate with your Affiliates through their online email systems. Instead of receiving your messages in their regular inboxes, your Affiliates have to log in to their admin screens to check their mail.
    • When they are paid - If the network pays Affiliates and themselves each month - you pay your Affiliate commissions each month - even if you want to pay every four months, every quarter, etc.
    • Their minimum commission amount - Most networks are set up with a minimum commission amount that the Affiliates must accumulate before getting paid. The minimum amount can be reached by combining commissions from every program the Affiliate belongs to in the network. So, if the minimum commission amount is $25 - an Affiliate can will get paid if he earns $0.02 in your program, $22 in another program and $3 in another program. Each month, you could be paying hundreds of dollars in commissions to Affiliates that earn only a few cents. In a program where you set your own minimum commission amount, you don't have to pay your Affiliates until they reach a dollar amount that is worth your time and dollar to pay.

    When you run your own program with the help of an Outsourced Affiliate Manager, you'll still be in control. Your Affiliate Manager can put together all of your materials and communicate with your Affiliates - but you'll have the final say in what is sent and what is said. After all, it's your program.

    Mary

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    http://www.affiliatecash.com
    Kowabunga Some indys to get you started

    more indys: go to Google and type
    affiliate "what you're looking for"
    affiliate books
    affiliate leather couches
    You would be suprised how much is still untapped.

    Just remember affiliate marketing existed before networks existed. Networks have they're advantages but like most affiliates, parasites only deal with network merchants. Indys are 99% parasite free, the trick is finding the good ones that convert and pay.

    "The successful man is the average man, focused."

  12. #12
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    Yes, yes... But name some complete and good commission indys in the electronics and house/appliances category...

    (because there are couple of them in the networks...)

    Fer

  13. #13
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    quote:
    Besides the thousand other things, I've been working on just this ... sample of the template -> http://www.abestweb.com/directory/ and yes it will be free.

    Haiko


    I see this page has changed a little, getting closer to going live?

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    terrymc,

    That page is gen1 we are upto gen 5 now, I wanted to launch a few things at the same time ... ABW4.O, DIR, ETC

    Some really good things in the works

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  15. #15
    Full Member
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    I've been thinking about the independent programs, and I have questions, but I've been too chicken to ask (such dumb questions).

    But I have to admit I'm confused by the concept.
    Where do I find the independent programs? ( I know some are here at ABW, but they are very few)

    How do they work? I mean links, tracking etc.


  16. #16
    Just Lurking
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    quote:
    Originally posted by netsu:
    Where do I find the independent programs?
    Heck this was one of the first questions ABW answered for me. Google! or any other search engine. Do a search:

    computers "Affiliate Program"

    OR one of the many other keyword/phrases. Yeah you'll turn up a lot of Network programs but you can turn up these Indys if you dig deep enough.

    ------------------------------
    "If all the newbies are going to start writing ebooks maybe I should get started on mine!" -- Buddha

  17. #17
    Just Lurking
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    I once suggest you all start a Union but maybe a coop would be better. Our own little network for consolidating payments from independant merchants. Haiko, you working on this too? A newb can always hope.

    ------------------------------
    "If all the newbies are going to start writing ebooks maybe I should get started on mine!" -- Buddha

  18. #18
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    "Of course, getting the message about in-house programs to active affiliates will be the problem. ABW may become the clearing house where merchants and affiliates meet up. Thus assuming one of the biggest functions of a network."

    "This can become close to an affiliate driven network, right here and now."

    BRILLIANT - I love this idea and this could really be a huge WIN/WIN for everyone.
    Let me know what I can do to help make it happen!

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  19. #19
    Outsourced Program Manager
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    Independent programs have their advantages, but can also cost more in time and money for both the affiliate and merchant alike. Higher cost means less room for commission percentages and bonuses, unfortunately.

    I believe once we have a large enough following of affiliates who give us positive feedback on the establishment of our own independent program, we very well may go independent here at Laptops For Less!

    Either way, we are so excited to have recently created a private forum here at ABW. Thanks for your help, Haiko!

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=frm&...9&f=9516089345

    Paul
    Affiliate Manager,
    Laptops For Less

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