View Poll Results: How much are you loosing?

Voters
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  • 1% or less

    1 2.63%
  • up to 5%

    4 10.53%
  • up to 10%

    5 13.16%
  • up to 25%

    9 23.68%
  • up to 50%

    19 50.00%
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    I've made a list of things (legit or not) that prevent affiliates from getting the commission for the sales they have referred:

    1- Cookies Not Enabled - 0.5-1% of all Internet users
    2- ParasiteWare(TM) - Overwriting affiliate links in any way
    3- Phone Ordering - Buyers order over the phone
    4- Non-commissioned - Sale of products, gift certificates that are not commissioned
    5- Short-Cookie Terms - Low cookie durations
    6- Reporting Problems - Unintentional or technical outages
    7- Merchant Tricks - Merchants that do not report sales properly or rediret clicks in a way so that the affiliate won't get the credit

    I did not include "reversals" because I think they're just "nature of this business".

    I'd like to know how much of your total sales, do you think, affected by these factors?

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sambay,

    One of the item accounts for about 20% in losses (confirmed by some "parasites") so I'd have to say 25% based on the items on your list, but I'd like to add that NON-tracking or turned off tracking accounts for much more than all combined. The severity of the lack of tracking is contingent upon the respective solution. I know of quite a few specific cases (eg. IDT (didn't track for 3 months) Telocity (didn't track for 4 months)) but there are many, many others.

    A result of the Nov 7th Meeting will be a solution that will verify tracking of merchants "thank you" pages and it will be available in real time (another ABW solution).

    "Trust" only comes with facts to do so!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  3. #3
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    wow!

    thanks for working towards fixing these massive tracking problems, haiko!

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko I hope this comes true.. "A result of the Nov 7th Meeting will be a solution that will verify tracking of merchants "thank you" pages and it will be available in real time (another ABW solution)."

    The networks have all along known which merchants reporting tags are turned off, not present in new shopping cart changes or resulting from defective coding. They even raise some eyebrows over the difference in recorded sales and the postings by merchants using batch transactions. Up to this point they just ignored the reporting tag abusers who paid their own monthly network ala-cart fees.

    The networks sell the merchants the cheapest form of effective advertising in the world. They are just too lazy in their sales efforts to drop the lines from the "pitch" that point out how diversion tactics help the ROI and offset the ramp up costs!!

    WebMaster Mike

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    You are not even in the same ballpark SamBay...

    see my post (data) here

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...1&m=8516063851

    I also have data from 2 other merchants who do NOT delete cookie after first sale and one had 45 days and the other had 120 day cookies. Their charts are similiar.

    Those 0,1,even 7 day cookies are a scam. Just look at the numbers.

    I'd say we are being paid 1/5th of the commissions earned on all the other sites we promote. So I'd estimate we are losing 400% but only on those companies that play with the cookies. On sites with decent cookie policy, we probably lose 15% due to 800 number, scumware, etc. But that's just a guess, and frankly, given the differences, the cookie games are far more important.

    In fact, we had a thing going on another merchant.. till they did the "delete after first sale" thing with the cookie, We had been going up, up, up.. just like the chart in the url above, but then, they changed the cookie and now every month since then looks like the first month.

    I posted the numbers to alert other users of the $ figure being lost, but I don't think it's sinking in with anyone. Scumware is a problem, but deleting the cookie is a much, MUCH bigger problem (dollar wise).

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Hey AffJus,

    I wanted to put another option of "more than 50%" but there were only 5 options available, so I tried to make the most logical selections.

    You cannot loose 400% of your sales. If you think you're being paid for 1 sale in every 5 sales you generate, you're loosing 80% of your sales.

    I would not label 0, 1, 7 days cookie durations as "scam" as long as, the term is clearly identified. At the end, it's your choice whether to participate in that merchant's program or not.

    I'm sure most of these factors can be evaluated one by one, and they're each big problems but, I just wanted know how much, do affiliates think, they're loosing because of these factors.

    Haiko,

    I think "Non-Tracking" can be included in Merchant Tricks", but I was not aware that it was a severe problem. But, it's mostly network's responsibility, because it's very hard for affiliates to identify this kind of fraud.

    Thank you for letting us know. While most people want to know Nov. 7th meeting results in terms of "Parasiteware" solutions, I'm glad to know these kind of matters has been handled, as well.

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SamBay:
    Hey AffJus,

    You cannot loose 400% of your sales. If you think you're being paid for 1 sale in every 5 sales you generate, you're loosing 80% of your sales.


    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Better get out your calculator.

    If I make $10 per sale and only get credit for 1 in 5, that means I make $10.

    If I get credit for all 5, that's $50, or $40 more than I had, $10.

    That's 400% loss of sales.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    AffJus,

    I really wouldn't like this turn into a calculation discussion, but;

    If you think you're generating a total of 100 sales, and of these sales, if you loose 80 of them because of these factors, then you're loosing 80% of your sales.

    What you're calculating is the percentage of the lost sales against the reported sales. While your calculation is correct, that's not what I'm asking in the question.

    Regards,

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    Well excuse me. I surely would not want to confuse your totally hypothetical question with actual facts.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    Btw, this is too exactly what you asked:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    5- Short-Cookie Terms - Low cookie durations
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm demonstrating to you how $ is lost in commissions due to SHORT TERM COOKIES.

    Which is what you asked.

    In my FACTUAL experience, not made up, but with over 6 months of sales records, I can demostrate with the data, that a short term cookie would have cost me 400% of my commissions.

    Before you argue, why don't you spend a moment at the thread I gave you above, and really study the chart.

    If that had been a "delete after first" or 0 day cookie, the subsequent months would have looked like the first month. And the difference between subsequent months where we did $8000 to $10,000 in sales, and the first months (where we did $2000 in sales) is 400%!

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    So far this month my "detect.js" has had 175 hits, this does not seem many but when you think I only have it in one section of my site, the new section that has not been up for a month yet so the search engines have not indexed it, it makes me wonder how many have these things on their computers.

    I am also convinced the monies being stolen from us is well over the pathetic figures the parasites recon they are taking. For my money they have upped the amounts they are taking for the xmas rush.

    If only a merchant would come clean and give us some idea [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador
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    I had been pretty consitant at 25% infected for a while but it's starting to drop back.

    The last week it's been around 20% and so far today it's only 18%.

    I contribute my overall falling percentage to the fact I have informed users of this issue in an effective way which is illustrated by poll results outlined in my plea to merchants and networks post.

    My users are removing parasites (65% had no idea they were even installed) and by informing them effectively of the issue, I've actually built trust with most of them (who keep returning not infected). [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    The emails I get from users thanking me for alerting them to the issue are a real joy.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador
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    I love mathematical arguments. I gamble a bit and have terrible trouble explaining to people how odds work over time.

    Anyway, if my sales were $100 for month 1 and $0 for month 2, I have lost 100% of my sales.

    Percentage wise, you cannot lose more sales than you actually have. If you only have $100 in sales, you only have $100 in sales, regardless of any other factors.

    You can estimate that your sales should have been $500, but were only $100 due to factor X. You can conclude that factor X has meant a loss of 80% of your sales. What you haven't lost is 400% of your sales, as your actual sales were $100.

    You could say that sales would have been 400% higher if not for factor a or b but not that you have lost 400% of sales because the sales amount you were anticipating never happened. You still have $100 in sales.


    Hope that confuses everyone further [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Search Engine Positioning - 1 Design 4 Life

  14. #14
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I'll have a pint of what you're drinking Markymark [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  15. #15
    Millionaire on training wheels Justdoit's Avatar
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    Only a pint Gordon? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    As you climb the ladder of success, be sure it's leaning against the right building.

  16. #16
    Full Member
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    Whew!!

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador BareNecessities's Avatar
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    We have a '365 day* cookie' promotion. How does that affect these calculations.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Michael

    PS. It really only lasts until 10/09/03, so it was only a 365 day cookie on the first day. 364 the next day, and so on. Still a lot of days left on that cookie though. I hope everyone joins. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Michael
    973-621-6211 x 5040
    michael(at)barenecessities.com

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    I've made a list of things (legit or not) that prevent affiliates from getting the commission for the sales they

    5- Short-Cookie Terms - Low cookie durations
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My sales commissions (and yours too!) would be 4 times (or 400% higher than) what they are now if cookies were set to 45 days and not deleted after first sale. (based on my experience with 3 merchants who do not delete after first sale and have at least 45 day cookies.)

    However you want to express that with numbers, I don't care. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  19. #19
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    My cookie is set to 'never expire'.....come help me sell some tarps! BY the way, my program checks out okay on all those items. I'm at www.shareasale.com , waitin' patiently to hand money out..... kinda like the Maytag repairman of tarp sales, lol, I'm always here!


    -Tom Rice
    www.tarice.com

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  20. #20
    Newbie
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    Here is a little Survey you may want to send to the Merchants you work with.

    Do you require my referrals to enter through a unique entry point that supports or initiates tracking?

    If yes, what are the requirements that initiate tracking?

    May I Over Ride that destination URL and still receive credit for my referrals?

    If yes, what are the requirements that initiate tracking when I elect to over ride the destination URL?

    If I send my referral through the Unique Entry Point, what is the maximum time period after the click I am guaranteed credit for my referral regardless of the page my referral returns to once leaving your site.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    I really really dislike loose sales. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

    Tight sales are soooo much better....

    --
    The Newer Nicer Joseph [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

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