View Poll Results: Do you aggree with the idea of "Exclusion List"?

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  • Hell, No!

    71 77.17%
  • It's workable

    15 16.30%
  • Yes

    6 6.52%
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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    If you haven't heard, some people including Haiko, are proposing and advocating a *solution* that'll solve the parasite issue:

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=9486011702

    In summary, it suggests that we give our domain names to eBates so they won't overwrite the affiliate click-trhoughs originated from those domain names.

    Do you agree with it?

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    LOL, it's your links why would anyone with any knowledge allow for it to be overwritten? That is silly!

  3. #3
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    Whats silly is :
    1) That you would even dare propose this as an alternative.
    2) That the affiliates "you supposidly represent" find out about it this proposal from a NYT article that was never mentioned on this board.
    3) That you ever allowed Shawn of OS access to the private parasteware forum.
    4) That Shawn would make several stupid and inconsistant statements such as:
    1) "recognizing that parasites are bad" while he continues to partner with them and
    2) That he lost 150K in sales from a boycot. I challenge him to him to submit his numbers here.

    There is plenty more sillyness but thats a good start to look at it from.

  4. #4
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    Whats silly is :
    1) Someone thinking they can make decisions for thousands of people without consulting them.

    2) Taking ebates word for anything.

    3) Someone who is supposed to be the leader in the fight against parasites accepting money for a forum from a merchant that openly supports parasites.

    4) If this mad scheme does work it give parasites a licence to popup on any affiliate site who is not aware of the stupid list.

    5) Being responsible for 4

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    What is silly is thousands who don't want to protect their urls via a true system and dare to trust the COC.

    I will alert all affiliates of this opportunity to exclude their sites, this is not an issue, their decision is.

  6. #6
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    We should trust ebates because...?

    And we should trust haiko because...?

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    What I don't understand is you consult to the affiliates here for almost anything. You just asked whether we'd chip in $1 for a class-action lawsuit.

    Heck, you've even consulted us what prizes to give the 100,000th post winner.

    How come you never mentioned a word, consulted any affiliates publicly about such an important step like this?

    And, after there is clear opposition from more than 80% of the affiliates, why are you still insisting on this?

    What aspect of this idea do you think we don't get?

    I don't care if you open a forum for Overstock eventhoug they're affiliated with parasites. That's a business desicion and nothing wrong with that. We even respected Shawn's comfort, and stopped posting about parasites in his forum.

    But, this sudden U-TURN, I don't get it. I don't think you benefit from it, or I don't you're defending it because you benefit.

    Just, WHY, man?

  8. #8
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    What is wrong with you Haiko? Really, is there something you want to tell us? Other than George Bush's "read my lips" I can't think of a bigger betrayal in the past 20 years.

    Note what he says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
    As for whether this agreement could lead to Ebates' giving too much ground to affiliate competitors, Mr. Isolani said he doubted it. "We're obviously not going to list every site on the Internet; if it's a real person with a real issue with the software, we'll take a look at it," he said. "We could probably work with a thousand or two."
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    "we'll take a look at it." "if it's a real person" Who decides if it's a "real person?" and what does that have to do with it? What if it's "real company?" what if it's "real partnernship?" and why is "ebates" the judge as to who is real or not. Considering the net is not "real" but "virtual" what does "real" mean?

    And who are you to not only dis all us here for not asking first (when you damn well know this would never fly due to the poll I posted last month) and who are you to dis every other affiliate out there just because they don't know to submit to your list? So only your friends houses are "safe" and to hell with the rest of the neighborhood?

    That's some ego you got there.

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  9. #9
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    Perhaps the New URL for the list could be called Robbing Peter(not on the list) to pay Paul(on the list)

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    ok I usually don't speak up in these things as
    a) I'm still a newbie in figuring it all out
    b) I don't make my living off this.

    BUT, to me this is like giving your bank account information to a bank robber because he promises not to rob you.

    It's my right not to be robbed, not something I should have to be listed as being against.

    A wishbone has never taken place of a backbone.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Haiko:
    What is silly is thousands who don't want to protect their urls via a true system and dare to trust the COC.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not a lot of people on this forum trust the COC or the networks who published them and you know that.

    What's silly is that if you/we don't even trust the networks, how can we trust the parasites? That's really silly.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    SamBay,

    I am a little confused with your stance. Not really the emotional part, I get that loud and clear, but the technical part. Please help me.

    If Haiko's plan goes forward, what will be the downside to having given link information to the bad guys?

    Do you fear them copying your site design and keywords? Or, do you fear them taking the information and automatically overwriting your links with the info submitted on the list. Or is it something else?

    I am not trying to be antagonistic here, I just want to understand - please.

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buy_online:
    SamBay,

    If Haiko's plan goes forward, what will be the downside to having given link information to the bad guys?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Buy-online

    The plain itself is the biggest downside. It gives a select group of affiliates list to the eBates to not to overwrite their links?

    What other downside are you looking get? How low can we go?

  14. #14
    Schlaumeier cumbrowski's Avatar
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    My technical understanding of the list is (if I understand the article correctly), that URLs would be encrypted in there and not directly accessable by eBates etc. (one way encryption, you can encrypt, but not decrypt).

    eBates would have to encrypt the target URL and check the encrypted URL against the List. They would not activate the shopping plugin, if there is a match (encrypted URL compared with encrypted URL).

    Drawback here, once they have a match, they know your identity. Nobody can stop them from doing that. The Encryption would be worthless.

    I can only repeat myself, but prefer to link to my own post
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...702#3986007702

    The only solution is a legal solution. Since the government is always slow to come up with something by itself, lawsuits have to do the trick.

    Any "solution" in the meantime is only a fight against symptoms and not a cure.

    Each Parasite has to evaluate its future legal position and think about the posibility, that what they are doing today is maybe illegal tomorrow. Some Parasites will probably be affected big time, others just a bit.

    Carsten

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  15. #15
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    This is a bad stupid and immoral plan. But, you knew that all along, else why did we have to find out about it this way? The fact that you did not discuss it here first proves that you were aware of that from the git go.

    Did you really think all the affiliates here would just jump on board saying. "The devil take the hind most...my site is all that matters! As long as I am on the list, who cares if others aren't! Me first...Me first!"

    You should know better, Haiko. For shame!

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  16. #16
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    Ssanf, if all affiliates know about the exclusion list and anyone can add their site, where's the problem?
    --
    As for the list being a danger, if anyone wants to know which affilates are making money selling widgets they just go into google and key widgets, there's the list.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    SamBay,

    Perhaps I should re-phrase the question, as I don't think you answered it. You said, "The plain itself is the biggest downside."

    Okay, now they have the links, and let's say for fun that they know who the links belong to. You are saying that they are going to over-write the links, and the list gives them the extra capability to do this?

    Fred

    In an effort to watch your cholesterol, you eat Spam Lite.

  18. #18
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    spacewar-

    There is absolutely no way on earth everyone who is an affiliate is going to sign up. You create a list like this you are doing 2 things:

    1 You are excluding someone, allowing them to be stolen from.

    2 You are giving the appearance of 'working' with the parasite, in a manner that may allow them to remain at CJ.

    If they can present a plan to CJ, and show participation by 100 or so of the most active affiliates - including Haiko, who has been, by far, the most vocal voice against parasites - might they not give ebates more time or just take them off 'double-secret probation' altogether?

    Time Is A Parasite's Friend

  19. #19
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    Haiko, is this the thing that you wanted the $1 for? You told everyone to just wait, because you were working on some action against the parasites, is this the big thing?

    So where do we sign up? Is there going to be a lottery or something to see who gets on the list?

  20. #20
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    Haiko - I don't ride a donkey!

    It does two important things the parasites will use.

    1) It provides a list of users who "want to be protected"
    2) It enables a list to be defined that outlines affiliates who are not informed or "not interested in protection".

    I'm looking for a shift to come in Topmoxies model to more match what I percieve as whenu and gators model - "Pay me to not kill you".

    The collection of a list is only the first step.

    Whats the next step? Affiliates start signing up with whenu and gator instead of ppc to not only get traffic but get "protection from their predatory practices"? Could a list be used by Topmoxie and others as a start to work on implementing this same model into their current offering of goodies avaialable?

    For those of you who think the encrption will be safe, the parasite will be on a site and will have to be told either directly or indirectly that "they can or "can not" redirect on the site they are on...... No matter what steps are taken to protect the encryption and it's processing a very simple matter exists that shouldn't be overlooked - The parasite has full open view of the url that any program tells them they cant override on - Duhhhhhhhh.

    If the service is offered and you take it up, don't get fooled into thinking your domain is safe and undisclosed to them. They already have better stats on our sites that we do (they know how much is being diverted by them) so it may be a mute issue but it's wrong to assume the service allows a site who wants protection to be undisclosed.

  21. #21
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    Here are my thoughts.

    First, a class action lawsuit is a long and drawn out process. While it seems to me that we have a real complaint and may have a chance in court, there still remain the logistical problems of finding a good lawyer to take the case and getting enough high earning affiliates on board to make the case worthwhile.

    Second, in the short-term, I the exclusion list is still better than having a third party openly steal sales. It may not be ideal, but it's quick and is probably the most realistic stop-gap solution. The bigger questions are how do we get on the list, how do we ensure that we remain on the list, and how do we update information.

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  22. #22
    Millionaire on training wheels Justdoit's Avatar
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    Hell no!!! No need to say more.

    The greatest oak was once a little nut who held its ground

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> , if all affiliates know about the exclusion list and anyone can add their site, where's the problem?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The problem is that an affiliate should not need to know about this and have to take the required actions to get on such a list.

    A better plan would be for any and all affiliates registered with any and all of the networks be automatically included this list.

    Pressure must be put on the networks to provide this type of protection. It is their responsibility to insure that we get credited for actions that originated on our sites, no?

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

  24. #24
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 14K_Deelz:
    The problem is that an affiliate should not need to know about this and have to take the required actions to get on such a list.

    A better plan would be for any and all affiliates registered with any and all of the networks be automatically included this list.

    Pressure must be put on the networks to provide this type of protection. It is their responsibility to insure that we get credited for actions that originated on our sites, no?

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes indeed Deelz, that would seem so. I just don't know if that would ever happen. Considering the networks past actions. Also since most affiliates are registered with more than one network, then you'll are certain amount of cooperation between the networks otherwise it's a huge list with duplications. We'll see this type of cooperation between the networks? And then will still be those affiliates who don't register all their sites with the networks.

    Keep Your Hands Off My Cookies

  25. #25
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> cooperation between the networks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    How about cooperation between the networks and the law?

    Sometimes I wonder why I even waste my energy posting here. Any constructive criticism or suggestion is always met by a cop-out snappy answer from a parasite apologist, or some similar BS concocted to feed somebody's messiah complex.

    All around the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel

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