View Poll Results: Tell the Truth!

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60. You may not vote on this poll
  • I do not promote any merchants who deal with parasites

    27 45.00%
  • I promote 1-5 merchants who deal with parasites

    12 20.00%
  • I promote 6-10 merchants who deal with parasites

    1 1.67%
  • I promote 10+ merchants who deal with parasites

    10 16.67%
  • It's my site, I'll risk loosing the commissions

    10 16.67%
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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    The question I ask myself is why we all ask merchants to be parasite free yet *MANY* still promote merchants that aren't parasite free ... why is that? I mean I see Dell, Computers4Sure etc on sites when TigerDirect has been repeatedly on the front line and dropping parasites left and right ... why in the word is that? Now TigerDirect is just one of a few examples but the strongest one I find an absolute injustice. Please also see this thread for Andy's stance.

    My question is how many of you still promote parasite ridden merchants?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  2. #2
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    I just removed Dell and computers4sure from my computer page and moved Tiger Direct to the top!
    It will take a long time, but I will do what I can to remove those merchants who are not parasite free.

    www.cjshoppingnetwork.com

  3. #3
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    You know, that would make a nice web page, a list of parasite free merchants, sorted by category. I suppose there is one about?

    I drank what??! -Socrates

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Haiko:
    Interesting results so far ...


    Karl Smith
    phillyBurbs - Your Internet Starts Here

  5. #5
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    hmm. It's a dicey one here.

    On one hand I've got TigerDirect who is performing great for me.
    On the other, it's a merchant Mike is having a 0%CR for this month who is converting at 5.83% for me (this month, but that is also consistent with previous months).

    I'm sorry, but at the moment and at this point in my business' lifecycle, the $$'s rule supreme. Sure, if I can find another merchant with the products & pricings (& the obligitary datefeed) of Mike's big dud, I'd replace them, but at the moment, there is no merchant to replace them.

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    EC,

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=frm&...9&f=1526051621

    but, I'll make a list later.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  7. #7
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    I agree and Andy and Haiko that there are "inconsistancies" in affiliates bit#hing about parasites yet they still promote parasite ridden merchants (myself included).

    Why do I still promote them?

    1) Because repeated requests to have a group action against "specific merchants" in an organized way has never even come close in this forum in my opinion this is what it will take to swing the momentum of merchants to begin not partnering with and or dropping parasites - WHICH IS THE REAL ISSUE.

    Merchant education has yielded (caugh caugh) "very little benefitial results" and the parasites are slowly but surely sucking more and more profit from our revenue because "we have failed to solidify as a group" and "give them enough solid business reasons" to not partner with them.

    2) Because many sites need "spider food" to draw visitors - especially banner type sites where one merchant will not get you traffic much less a repeat customer. Even datafeed sites where data can be neatly organized for spider food, I'm still reluctant to limit to a specific merchant. I mean look at tigerdirect - their datafeed has had more bumps and pot holes "for ages" than any other I can think of. I appreciate tigers efforts but, I'm not about to put all my eggs in one basket with the history I've seen and continue to see repeat itself over and over!

    3) Get real - look at the merchant list on any one of the parasites - It's pretty hard to have viable earnings if you don't partner with these merchants.

    4) It's hypocritical in my opinion to start this poll yet - I constantly see promotional banners of merchants displayed here at ABW who partner with parasites. Will you kick out merchants who partner with parasites from your board or... are those eanings to important to you?

    5) Take a breath If you want to do something positive organize an effort and "get backing" to impact the sales of "specificly targeted merchants". I'll stand behind this effort 100% but not a half ass unorganized attempt that will only continue to allow the parasites to continue to "kill us slowly"!

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Pete,

    Mike's results really aren't a factor, IMO, also I know that some merchants put certain (AHEM) affiliates into the exclusion list of some technology providers

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I operate a Cybermall type shopping center. 75 individual shops for category landing pages and my top page views come from specific sections acting as entry points from the SE's.

    I refuse to showcase any parasite ridden merchant except Overstock. I do have filler merchants to keep up my shoppers interest when looking for a trusted source for name brand products. Not one e-mail complaint since 1997 from any of my shoppers that they didn't get their purchases from my hand picked merchants. I do my job and earn those bookmarks. I also am trapped by my commitment to offer savvy shoppers the best deals on name brand merchandise.

    Overstock sure is the leader there with no shopper ever coming up with a valid excuse NOT TO buy from Overstock. My alternate choice for a broad category discounter are nill when we look at who is parasite ridden. Dealtime -BlueFly -Walmart -Smartbargains and some CJ loosers are my only alternate choices. Care to rate them against Overstock from a shoppers viewpoint??

    All I can do is give Kuddos to Overstock as the best paying merchant at Linksharing ...my mailroom gerbil rants do have listeners. Overstock acts on my advice and thanks to Shawn -Mike and JP hopefully they will cure their parasitic blues. My complaints yesterday on posting Zero sales mysteriously got looked at..Thanks OS. Now today I at least show 3 sales for the month. They have a long way to go to match TigerDirect in conversion ratios as the BHO hurdles put them at a disadvantage with a sprinter like Andy.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on May 09, 2003 at 12:03 PM.]

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko I think I not only rant, but also make pertinent suggestions to cure some ills in this industry. You can bet that even my lame site is a true sounding board for the majority of ABWers who are not datafeed or coupon pushing experts. My premise is I can take any network merchant and send them 100 clicks a day to properly evaluate their program and post results. When I find a fox in the hen house I expose them and have never been proven wrong or presented a lawsuit for what I exposed.

    Many merchants clean up their acts or just close shop and jump networks. I only speak for the normal affiliate that relies upon free SE listings ...posts network generated link codes...builds a site earning a few bookmarks and never ever would think of pushing e-mail spam campaigns. Me and the other 300,000 cannon fodder webmasters, who wish to monitize our sites with affiliate links, are still the backbone of this industry. After the B-a-HOs ,diversion trickster and non-reporting merchants and the "tricks for clicks" crew clean the meat off the carcus only the backbone is left.

    If that backbone can now jump on a parasite free -products only - non-incented network maybe we will have more merchants to showcase. The branders and diversion champs need not apply if SAS or a alternative plays by the pro-affiliate rules.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  11. #11
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    Haiko and the rest of the peanut gallery,

    I didn't vote in this poll because I really don't know how much, if any, sales I'm losing to parasites. Could I research this? Sure, but I don't have the time to do it. Furthermore, how I do know what is a simply a rumor from somebody who simply can't sell something from their web from what is factual information? After all, just because one site can't sell a can of Clam Chowder soup, doesn't mean that I won't make a ton of money promoting the same product...

    If there were list judged by many to be fairly credible, I would pay attention to it. In situations where there was a true alternate to a merchant supporting parasite (e.g. similar products, pricing, and link building ease), I would switch.

    IMO, the best way to start is to create an easily accessible list of "good" merchants and "bad" merchants and publicize this list.

    Stepping off of my soap box...

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    For computers I'll stick with TD but if there are items I can't get anywhere else I have to do what I have to do.

    "If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet you could shoot beer out of you nose." Jack Handy

  13. #13
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Haiko I think I not only rant, but also make pertinent suggestions to cure some ills in this industry. You can bet that even my lame site is a true sounding board for the majority of ABWers who are not datafeed or coupon pushing experts. My premise is I can take any network merchant and send them 100 clicks a day to properly evaluate their program and post results. When I find a fox in the hen house I expose them and have never been proven wrong or presented a lawsuit for what I exposed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mike please don't misunderstand my statement, that is not what I meant. You definitely do all that you said and more! I was trying to explain that certain technology providers do have an exclusion list, so when affiliate A matches their results with exclusion list affiliate A the results will be incongruous.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  14. #14
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    Well, on my main shopping/coupon site i have to promote everybody, even merchants i hate because its not what i want, but what my site visitors want. But i do put parasitic merchants on the bottom, i give parasite free merchants better placement. On my other sites i have no merchants affiliated with parasites. i want to ask are they parasitic now? What software or programs are still overwriting affiliate links. And not to start anything, seriously, and since you started this thread

    "The question I ask myself is why we all ask merchants to be parasite free yet *MANY* still promote merchants that aren't parasite free ... why is that? "

    You're doing the same thing. You're promoting merchants that aren't parasite free by allowing them to have forums here at ABW.

    And Mike i do appreciate you stance against parasites, i really do, but you promote a merchant on your front page, it seems always, just as "somebody" else does. How bout putting someone on your front page that has no associations whatsoever?

    "Nothing focuses the mind better than the constant sight of a competitor who wants to wipe you off the map."
    --Wayne Calloway

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on May 09, 2003 at 02:25 PM.]

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Trust#1 you can bet those merchants on the WhenU and Gator list are using those BHO popup to overwrite affiliate linking codes or set their own cookies.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  16. #16
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    The Truth?

    Dell vs Tigerdirect? Please. Dell has brand new cutting edge stuff at prices that cannot be beat. Tiger has old crap at higher prices. The stuff practically sells itself at Dell. The Tiger affiliate program may be 100% on the level (though thats highly debatable based on many threads in their forum), but the company itself is generally regarded as scum. Even if they have cleaned up their act, its all about perception and the general perception of them is low. This is not to say that Dell is without their share of complaints, tracking issues, and even has the "honor" of a lower resellerratings score. However, I still think the general perception from the average person out there of Tiger is lower; that is my perception from reading a lot of online forums and talking to a lot of online savvy people. Also, unlike some I'm not particularly into screwing over my traffic, and so I'd rather see them get the best , and be satisfied. I don't want to send them somewhere I don't feel comfortable shopping myself! I do promote Tiger some but not on any serious level. Because of Andy's strong stance against PW, I have been really keeping an eye on them, hoping the company in general cleans things up. I do admit I've seen *less* complaints lately, so, perhaps they are finally turning around. Hoping they redesign that monstrosity of a site too.


    Haiko,
    Whats this mean:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know that some merchants put certain (AHEM) affiliates into the exclusion list of some technology providers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ?


    You did say to tell the truth...

    ----
    -J
    When you're down It's a long way up
    When you're up It's a long way down

  17. #17
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Monuit:
    The Truth?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



    JM, thank you for the few kind words..

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    Avoiding parasite infected merchants in affiliate marketing is like trying to avoid getting your hair wet at a pool party .

  19. #19
    15 years and counting
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    To tell the truth I quit promoting computers because of companies like Dell scr@wing their affiliates. I had links for them and it was just a waste of time so I gave up. I started again with TigerDirect as soon as Andy came on board but I had to start again with no traffic for computers. I was able to increase my sales months after months and I'm experiencing exceptionnal conversion for my traffic. TigerDirect rules, and that's the truth.

    BTW. I'm staying away from companies associated with scumware. If some of you are thinking they are losing money just wait for their next move. Thanks Andy for your strong stance on Parasites.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  20. #20
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zeus:
    To tell the truth I quit promoting computers because of companies like Dell scr@wing their affiliates. I had links for them and it was just a waste of time so I gave up. I started again with TigerDirect as soon as Andy came on board but I had to start again with no traffic for computers. I was able to increase my sales months after months and I'm experiencing exceptionnal conversion for my traffic. TigerDirect rules, and that's the truth.

    BTW. I'm staying away from companies associated with scumware. If some of you are thinking they are losing money just wait for their next move. Thanks Andy for your strong stance on Parasites.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Zeus,

    Thank you for your experienced view on the subject and the industry. Many here only know you as Zeus, but we have had the pleasure of speaking a few times and getting to know each other.

    If I may comment, you are probably in the top 10, if not the Top 5 on this 8,000 member board in revenue earned and generated for your partners.

    I won't reveal any numbers or figures, but suffice it to say you are a veteran of affiliate marketing and don't talk out of your *ss.

    You may elaborate if you wish or not, it's not necessary, however, when you speak and voice your opinion, whether it be about Tiger or anyone else, i respect everything you say and i take it as fact.

    It is my honor to have you on my program and only wish you can regain that momemtum sooner than later..

    All the best...

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com

    Parasite Free in 2003!

  21. #21
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    I have to agree with Monuit. It is hard to promote a machine that is a good deal, but saddled with WindowsME or some other os besided XP these days. And the components are often almost there - but not quite.

    Add to that, in the industry in general 2% commission. I sent tiger 66,282 clicks with 159 orders on well over a million page shows. Almost all of that was one or two products, we do better with tiger and consumer electronics than PC's, and when we get back around to a consumer electronics site (sometime early this summer), we will use TD again, but until then, the numbers have spoken.

    Chet

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by happypoon:
    4) It's hypocritical in my opinion to start this poll yet - I constantly see promotional banners of merchants displayed here at ABW who partner with parasites. Will you kick out merchants who partner with parasites from your board or... are those eanings to important to you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    By there participation at ABW many merchants learn the benefits of being parasite free, I really don't know of one merchant here who is parasite ridden ... they may allow some to be affiliates that have been parasitic in the past but none like 123inkjets where every word that Zaya said went down the toilet. Additionally you can can Shawn Schwegman and ask how many times I've been on his case about eBates.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sweat:
    IMO, the best way to start is to create an easily accessible list of "good" merchants and "bad" merchants and publicize this list.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Posting a "Black list" like we did on merchant boycott was a legal nightmare I'm not going to do that again but I did start the merchants against parasiteware forum and will compile a list of those merchants who have represented that they are 100% parasite free.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TrustNo1®:
    You're doing the same thing. You're promoting merchants that aren't parasite free by allowing them to have forums here at ABW.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    See my answer to poonmeister above.

    My inkjet page (not site) was made over 4 months ago and has never been promoted, and the only reason why the links haven't been changed .... time constraint. In the meantime it gets negligable traffic and makes nothing. Maybe this weekend I'll change out the links with one of the new inkjet merchants we have on the board now.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Monuit:
    Haiko,
    Whats this mean:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I know that some merchants put certain (AHEM) affiliates into the exclusion list of some technology providers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ?

    You did say to tell the truth...
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I mean exactly that ... we all know that the technology companies like top moxie can exclude overwritting on any links originating from a site (even affiliate site(s))... (remember my exclusion list proposal?)

    Also I wasn't really comparing Dell and Tiger, what I was trying to say was why isn't there the same level of support or links for Tiger?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 3) Get real - look at the merchant list on any one of the parasites - It's pretty hard to have viable earnings if you don't partner with these merchants. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    happypoon, I assure you the money is not with these companies, at least if you're just a normal affiliate. Look around, there's other companies to promote.

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% positive because I made a lot of pages a long time ago and I won't swear there are none in existence. I have not gone back and rechecked or deleted old stuff. But, I will say this. I keep a list and I check it twice before making any new pages.

    In fact, I will publish it here for anyone who wants to use it. I am not suggesting this as a black list. I am just saying what, I as one individual, do to maximize my revenue and not promote programs where I am sure my commissions will be diverted. Moderators, if there are any merchants who should not be on my personal black list, please be fair and remove them if they are pointed out.

    My list may appear long, but it doesn't matter a whit because there are many thousands of other merchants to build pages for. I can't even get to all I have found that I would like to promote. So, why even think of promoting rascals?

    [Edited to "CYA" SSANF]

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on May 09, 2003 at 04:50 PM.]

    [This message was edited by Haiko on May 09, 2003 at 07:05 PM.]

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Well I have a couple that are being worked out permanately, and Overstock is the only one I would consider having a parasite, ofcourse I don't know this 100% for sure as I am in a lot of independents also. AS for Dell vs Tiger, Tiger converts for me and they do so very well most days, Dell NEVER did, and I sat down and watched two people order from one of my Dell links, and did not see one penny in commission, emails go unreplied too. I think I still have a couple links to get rid of for Dell, and I believe I have a link to Tiger somewhere on every site I have, well atleast where appropriate.
    And Mike, preach on brother.

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