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  1. #1
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Todd, what is being done about the Norton Internet Security and Firewall issue? Has there been any headway.

    Back in Sept you said CJ was working on it and we have heard nothing since. I called CJ yesterday and was told, still no progress.

    Norton Internet Security and Firewall 2004 ad blocking is ON by default. Norton is being installed on lots of new computers.

    See how Norton strips CJ text links and banners here:
    http://www.5staraffiliateprograms.co...s-revenue.html

    More and more people are being affected by this and I know it’s not just a CJ issue, it’s an issue for all advertising companies. But I would think now that CJ, Befree and Valuclick are all being blocked, a company the size of ValueClick could do something about it.

    Here are some suggestions have been raised:
    “Restriction of trade” reports to the FTC?
    Since Norton IS advertised as a “security” product, ad blocking should be an option – NOT the default.
    Stripping the actual source code out of web pages is like graffiti or damaging property. Isn’t there some kind of case that can be made?

    Recent threads about this issue:

    Norton BLOCKING affiliate links & banners
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=7236025945

    Norton Security affiliate link testing help needed
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=7996067345

    Norton Banner Work Around
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=3646006355

    Older threads:

    Todd HUGE THREAT to Affiliates, Merchants and CJ too
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=...6266043124&p=1

    CJ links and Norton Personal Firewall - Some results.
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?q=Y&a=...7116081324&p=1

    Ad Blocking Software – Sept - Todd says they are “working on it”
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...524#3726018524

    Can CJ, BeFree and ValueClick help us with this problem? Not only are affiliates and merchants losing revenue, but the networks are too.

    Any update and support on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

    Linda Buquet 714.754.1280 :: Catalyst eMarketing Promotion & PR (Partner Relations)
    5 Star Affiliate Programs :: High Paying, Parasite-Free, Partner-Centered Merchants!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    Yes it would be nice to get an update on this!
    Cazzie

    Fight Back! Parasite Free In 2004!

  3. #3
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    Some assistance from the networks would be greatly appreciated.

    SandraR

  4. #4
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    Yes, PLEASE update on this issue.

    You would really think the networks would be moving faster on this issue, since they're losing money too.

    I'm getting tired of getting emails from people saying my site is broken, links are broken, etc.

    Come on ValueClick, get it together already!

  5. #5
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Come on CJ and BeFree - step up to the plate and help us. Please DO SOMETHING.



    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    What CAN they do? Norton must have told them to get lost. People pay for the Norton products for whatever reason and that is what they buy.

    There is not a darned thing the targeted networks CAN do about it. Norton and other companies are not accountable to the networks. CJ cannot make Norton mind. Another good reason to seek merchants from other sources.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  7. #7
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    SSanf - CJ and other networks can sue Symantec or get a court ordered injunction. This is a matter also for the FTC because it hinders cross state trade and can be under their jurisdiction. Each network owes it to their own business models, investors and affiliates to do this if in fact Norton is blocking these items.

  8. #8
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    Get a court ordered injunction??? I don'[t think so. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with cross state trade.

    I agree with SSanf. You can produce any product you want and have it do whatever it is you want it to do as long as it isn't illegal. This has nothing to do with trade, buying or selling.

  9. #9
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    [deleted]

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    There really is only 1 answer ... Feb 29th

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  11. #11
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    Bob95603, impeding a companies trade ability on a national level has certain potential for crossing FTC guidlines, of course a lawyer would have to determine that final viability of this. Further it is selective in blocking certain networks and not all networks so it may also be considered possibily anti-competitive in nature. In addition, it is fairly obvious that trade across state lines is in fact affected by this software (blocking it by default), so I am unsure why you would even bother state that it doesn't.

    You are right, you can produce any software to do whatever you want as long as it is not illegal. Where you are wrong is, once it is sold to the public it becomes regulated by everyone from the FTC to consumer protection agencies and as such accountability is in fact required. Let's not ignore ethics and trade tampering and then suggest there is nothing that can be done. Please don't be so coy.

  12. #12
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    Haiko - what is on 2/29?

    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    There really is only 1 answer ... Feb 29th

    Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_



  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Feb 29th? Well, I'm NOT asking Todd to marry me......So, what else could it be?

    I'm NOT asking Wayne, either.



    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  14. #14
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SSanf:
    What CAN they do? Norton must have told them to get lost. People pay for the Norton products for whatever reason and that is what they buy.

    There is not a darned thing the targeted networks CAN do about it. Norton and other companies are not accountable to the networks. CJ cannot make Norton mind. Another good reason to seek merchants from other sources.




    Show allegiance to the flag whatever flag they offer.
    Never hint at what you really feel.
    Teach the children quietly for some day sons and daughters.
    Will rise up and fight where we stood still.

    Can you hear me
    can you hear me running? . . .

    Can you hear me running
    can you hear me calling you?....



    Do what you feel is best.

    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  15. #15
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    There really is only 1 answer ... Feb 29th



    Ok Haiko,

    You tortured and tormented us when we were close to the 200,000th post. You tortured us by not setting a place so we can have an ABW meeting. Now this February 29th thing.

    I am changing my signature to say Haiko is into S & M.

    Stop the torture!

    SandraR

  16. #16
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    February 29th must be Hiako's birthday. Unless someone knows for sure his bday is another day, then I'm sticking with my theory.

    Mike

  17. #17
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    There really is only 1 answer ... Feb 29th

    Haiko_


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli_




    When The Ship Comes In
    by Bob Dylan

    Oh the time will come up
    When the winds will stop
    And the breeze will cease to be a'breathin'
    Like the stillness in the wind
    Before the hurricane begins
    The hour when the ship comes in

    And the sea will split
    And the ship will hit
    And the shoreline sands will be a'shakin'
    And the tide will sound
    And the waves will pound
    And the morning will be breakin'

    Oh the fishes will laugh
    As they swim out of the path
    And the seagulls will be a'smilin'
    And the rocks on the sand
    Will proudly stand
    The hour that the ship comes in

    And the words that are used
    For to get the ship confused
    Will not be understood as they're spoken
    For the chains of the sea
    Will have busted in the night
    And be buried at the bottom of the ocean

    A song will lift,
    As the mainsail shifts
    And the boat drifts out to the shoreline
    And the sun will respect
    Every face on the deck
    The hour that the ship comes in

    And the sands will roll
    Out a carpet of gold
    For your weary toes to be a'touchin'
    And the ship's wise men
    Will remind you once again
    That the whole wide world is watchin'

    Oh the foe will rise
    With the sleep still in their eyes
    And they'll jerk from their beds and think they're dreamin'
    And they'll pinch themselves and squeal
    And they'll know that it's for real
    The hour when the ship comes in

    And they'll raise their hands
    Sayin' "We'll meet all your demands"
    And we'll shout from the bow "Your days are numbered"
    And like the pharoah's triumph
    They'll be drownded in the tide
    Like Goliath they'll be conquered


    =============



    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  18. #18
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ebudae Understands!

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  19. #19
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    quote:
    There really is only 1 answer ... Feb 29th
    Huh?

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ojmoo:
    February 29th must be Hiako's birthday. Unless someone knows for sure his bday is another day, then I'm sticking with my theory.

    Mike


    Haiko's Bday
    posted January 09, 2004 08:40 PM

    SandraR

  21. #21
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    I see said the blind man to his deaf dog. What we have here is an M-life type commercial. I think about a year ago, I forget, playing on some of the radio stations I was listening to, they kept saying "M-life is coming" without telling you what it was. I suppose it was to peek people's curiousity. I suppose my curiousity wasn't sufficiently peeked since I'm still not sure what it was. Something to do with celluar phones and AT&T I think.

    Obviously, Haiko is going to release a new version of ABW (or maybe a new affiliate based independant website) that he thinks will blow us away. He has been talking about upgrades that have been in the works for a while. I suppose that is what this is. Although, he might be releasing it on his bday so I'll stick with my original theory too.

    But I promise, this will be they last words typed on the subject by me.

    Mike

    P.S.
    Moo

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I seem to remember all the hours and suggestions and demands I poored into another important date issue Haiko. Not one of the issues I raised, not even the requirement to disclose all diversion tactics and BHO partnership disclosures within each networks merchants profiles was accomplished. You helped chose and supported a whimpie biased lobbying group, who on Nov 7th, 2002 caved into the Ad Whore contextual mindset of the the networks seeking to marginalize the voice of 1 million normal affiliates.

    This CoC meeting led to the explosion of BHO's getting issued handsful of 90 day complaince passes sucking millions of dollars from the pockets of honest affiliates. Every damn BHO not only has doubled the number of infested systems, but has hijacked so much commissions they now dictate network policy.

    Expecting ValueClick's CJ & BF or Linkshare and Performics management to respond here to Norton and others blocking the display and function of network referral links is a joke. I'm really beginning to feel Haiko is so busy smoozing on the phone and in meetings with the network wanks, trying to push is own growth adjendas, he can't be bothered reading about the real issues screaming for attention here.

    Sad to go back over Haikos last years posts and see zip for content, advice, disclosures or even summaries of his insider contact meetings. Hundreds of one or two liners leading to nothing of substance as if He's just the social chairman here.

    There are a core group of rabit posters here who sorely miss the leadership of Ms.B. I pound this board with thousands of posts to stir up interest and action on all subjects undermining this industry. Hell the avid group of Webmaster Mike bashers add more to the meat of the issues by open discourse then thousands of haiko's common 4 word posts.

    Haiko you owe this board for all the great stature it's givin you at least an annual State of the ABW Union Address. I mean a meaningful summary of all the accomplishments of battles won and lost over last year. Don't be afraid to tell it like it is or post something dramatic that might even be proven wrong. Your the guy with all the daily insider scroop and the one most afraid to say a controversial word on this board.

    Then again you might be right as no one comes here to see what Haiko has to say on any of the major subjects. They'd rather listen to the Poons, Catalyst, Irma, Mousejockey, SandraR, PhillyBurbs, Akiva, Chris, all the Andy's, SSanF, Leader, qBall,Walleye Warrior, Chez Noir, EmDub, Ebudae, Trustno1, Ms.B, Jason, DaPackster, Gordon, Designerwiz and some others to get the real scoop.

    Yes I'm baiting you Haiko. Forcing you to actually recognize I exist here and seek out my posts and comment openly on the issues I and the others raise. Even if you disagree, or certainly if you have something to add that might shed some light on the subject. Force yourself to say more then one sentence on any subject.

    Here's a simple one for you Haiko and any others to pondor as no one has bothered to see it as the key legality ingredient.

    What is it that the networks refused to give up in order to keep Norton and others from blacklisting their servers and purposefully setting the defaults to block all network links. If Norton can't block the network or Gator type BHO's with their S/W I think they are punishing the networks by killing off their normal affiliate links. This opens up the actual legal grounds for restraint of trade and unfair business practices suits on both Norton and the Networks.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  23. #23
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    Survey Man,

    I don't think you know what you're talking about. First of all the settings on Norton are default settings. Anyone who has the program on their computer can change the settings if they so desire. Unfortunately, most people don't change default settings primarily because they either don't know they can or don't know how. Whine all you want, but the user purchases the product for a specific reason. It is not Norton that is making the decision to block ads, it is the end user. Your analogy is akin to saying stop selling cars because some people get into accidents and die.

    This has nothing to do with ethics or trade tampering and to suggest such in a public forum could get you in quite a bit of trouble with Norton if they decided to take a stance against your accusations.

    I don't think anyone in this forum likes the results of Norton's product, but to make statements regarding interstate trade, the FTC, consumer protection agencies, etc is ludicrous.

  24. #24
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    quote:
    Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    _What is it that the networks refused to give up in order to keep Norton and others from blacklisting their servers and purposefully setting the defaults to block all network links._ If Norton can't block the network or Gator type BHO's with their S/W I think they are punishing the networks by killing off their normal affiliate links. This opens up the actual legal grounds for restraint of trade and unfair business practices suits on both Norton and the Networks.

    Mike & Charlie ...



    As usual Mike!

    The only part I read of your Diatribe is the above. Not sure how to get my point across, but you go on and on, to the point that your message is lost.

    You have some very valuable points to make, its how you deliver it that is lacking. Believe it or not I always read your writings, the major problem is how much my stomach can handle all the coffee your writing requires to get to the darn point.

    I am actually starting to sound like you, going on and on about how you need to trim your comments to make a point.

    If the format you have been using is not working….

    Create a new format so it will be listened to, your writing is similar to your web sites, lacking design and creativity.

    PLEASE and I mean PLEASE find a new writing pattern!

    SandraR

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The point is sandraR their are no legal grounds to compel Norton to change their default settings or blocking anyones servers unless...NORTON willfully blocked network links to punish or force the networks hand for monitizing the BHO's they can't block. If Norton doesn't or can't block BHO popup alerts or Ads then this opens them up to a law suit if it can be proven they maliciously targeted the networks unwilling to control their BHO butt buddies..

    If the networks refuse to eliminate their spywarez & datamining along with the BHO infestations when requested by Norton ...they too are open to valid suits by affiliates and the harmed merchants.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

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