View Poll Results: Should I Work With This Merchant?

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  • Yes

    6 14.63%
  • No

    34 82.93%
  • Don't Know

    1 2.44%
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  1. #1
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    Poll Question:
    I just found a merchant i am interested in, a nice niche merchant. Problem is the Affiliate Manager for this merchant has a shopping site just like i do and has put links to their shopping site everywhere on the merchant site. Should i join this program and put up links to this merchant? Why or Why not?

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on November 23, 2003 at 09:07 PM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador cditty's Avatar
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    Not only no, but i would be tempted to email the higher ups and ask why they are allowing a merchant to farm traffic off their site and steal possible commissions from their affiliates.

    Chris

    ----------------------------
    <FONT SIZE=1>ezDatafeed.com - Merchants - Give your affiliates your datafeed outside the networks, without cost to the affiliate. Check out ezDatafeed.com for more information.
    Scriptsforyoursite.com - Featuring datafeed import scripts for Backcountry Store, Coldwater Creek, Mondera.com and many more.....</font>

  3. #3
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    It's a very small merchant, i don't think there are higher ups, just 1 owner it looks like. I think the owner hired someone to run the affiliate program for them, and the person running the affiliate program has put links to their shopping site. Just a general question if affiliates would work with merchants whose affiliate manager put links on the merchants site to their own personal site. I've seen this a few times while looking for some indys to add to my site.

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on November 23, 2003 at 09:42 PM.]

  4. #4
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    just like the suspender guy?

    I look for the day, when every affiliate from every nation can climb to the mountain top and yell,
    'Free again, Free Again."

    Today is a national day of parasite free shopping.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Not a chance in h*ll....
    I would think that would be some kind of conflict of interest.

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador buy_online's Avatar
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    I noticed Mike has stayed out of this thread, I wonder if he'll vote?

    Fred

    You might just be a Redneck if - Birds are attracted to your beard...

  7. #7
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    H*ll no! All leaks on the merchant site should be plugged, and if the leaks are going to my competition then all the more so!

    Note, this also applies to the all-too-common appearance of links to BizR*te!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I noticed Mike has stayed out of this thread, I wonder if he'll vote? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The results show one Yes vote at the time of this posting...

    It is a beautiful thing, to do nothing, and then rest afterwards.~Spanish Proverb

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Truly a unique situation as the site designer/webmaster -ecommerce consultant and affiliate manager are all the same person....me! Being that there are currently only 2 outbound links on this www.suspenders.com site and Google only shows 8 unique inbound URLs linking directly to www.suspenders.com traffic is very focused on sales activity. 2 outbound URLs are recripocal links for advertisers sending banner traffic to this site. One charges a lower monthly fee for referral traffic in exchange for the link and Ecomcity doesn't. Neither are merchants or affiliates of this company.

    Every webmaster/designer has the right to inform the curious via a link to his services page link to attract new web customers. How many ABWers actually build affiliate enabled merchant sites while not being a commissionable affiliate for this same merchant? This particular merchant also requests I field all site questions to my e-mail address webmaster or support @suspenders.com. All affiliate inbound links are cloaked and tracking cookies set via the secure shopping cart company and add no PR value to the site. This also guarantees no parasites can hijack the traffic or cookie in route to the merchant.

    Being that this high conversion merchant and honest AM would like to encourage more than 12 affiliates to join the program and send highly targeted traffic to the site by value-add pre-sell links the following will be put in place for the first time in the affiliate marketing industry.

    Any Holdup Suspenders affiliate who averages 4 sales per month will get to replace the Ecomcity link on any page of their choice with a link to any page on their own web site. The Suspenders.com webmaster will even design a small graphic to go with the text link. I'd suggest other AM's here to do the same thing as it will transfer PR to your performing affiliates.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Mike, I'd sign up if you had a datafeed, hehe.

  10. #10
    Full Member
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    If it's a merchant you want to work with, send them an e-mail. They may not realize what they are doing.

    I had a niche merchant I wanted to feature on one of my aff sites, and they pulled a diversion pop-up they had as soon as they were alerted to the fact that it was anti-affiliate.

    Scott Marino
    WebUndies.com
    It's not just underwear, it's fun to wear!

    CJ ~ 12% commission / 60 day cookies / unlimited actions / parasite free

  11. #11
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    Mike, Google shows 63 links from the suspender site to yours. That and the site design keeps affiliates from joining the program. Do the merchant a favor and cut the strings, let them hire someone who knows how to design sites that sell, let them hire an AM who's interested in signing up affiliates to help sell and won't put 63 links to their personal shopping site.

    "Any Holdup Suspenders affiliate who averages 4 sales per month will get to replace the Ecomcity link on any page of their choice with a link to any page on their own web site. The Suspenders.com webmaster will even design a small graphic to go with the text link. I'd suggest other AM's here to do the same thing as it will transfer PR to your performing affiliates. "

    I figured that was the reason for all those links "as will transfer PR"

  12. #12
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    Don't blame Mike....that first yes vote was mine. Hopefully I'm going to be sending targeted traffic that isn't going to be interested in going off to a general shopping mall...they are there to buy that niche product.

    And in the search engines, if I can't beat a general shopping site with my niche site for my niche keywords, then I may have larger problems than an AM working as an affiliate.

  13. #13
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    The site design is a killer.

    I joined Suspender when they were with CJ I sold a lot more than I would ever imagine.

    Since leaving CJ the design SUCKS and there are NO SALES! No matter how I desperately tried to link directly to the products page, still no sales.

    THE WEBSITE Design SUCKS!

    I love ya butt,

    PLEASE HELP US TO MAKE THOSE SALES FOR YOU!

    Hire a web designer PLEASE!

    SandraR<FONT face=Arial size=2>

    </FONT>

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    We thank Sandra for the 21 YTD clicks to suspenders.com and yesterdays sales file shows 34 orders from 419 total visitors with 3 affiliate referral clicks. Conversion ratio would have been higher but 21 ABWers were part of the visitor totals.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  15. #15
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    Placed your banner on:
    16/07/2003

    Impressions:
    44440

    Clicks
    35

    Sales
    0



    I belive in your program from the past, so I am hanging in there! PLEASE Re-Design!

    SandraR<FONT face=Arial size=2>

    </FONT>

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Get a real site, lose the cybermall links and I could sell tons of these.

    Connie Berg
    http://www.flamingoworld.com


  17. #17
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    I looked at Suspenders almost a year ago because their products go well with the belt subcategory in my site.

    At the first sight, I jumped out. I do not promote any merchant if I'll never buy from them. The design is like a halloween kiosk. Who is going to buy from a site like this if it does not create a feeling of "trust" at first visit. A visitor will never see what product the merchant got if the site looks like a one done by middle school kid using Frontpage 98.

  18. #18
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    eeek.... I wouldn't buy from it either. Now I understand where ecomcity's 5/10 came from.

  19. #19
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    Mike why are you lying to the people again? Why are you hijacking another threat to push your lies?

    You don't just have links to your *cough* design company, you also have links and banners to your mall. You have more than just 2 - more like 2 a page.

    Nice that you publicly post your affiliates stats, and you can say whatever you want that the stats are. You have admitted to lying when posting stats before, if you did it then - why would anyone believe you now?

    Chet

  20. #20
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    Yeah I can see that... I use frontpage... not 98, I couldn't go there.. but you can pump out professional looking websites with frontpage - Mike didn't, but it IS possible.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Somehow this scenario just seems wrong to me. An AM...with a personal affiliate site...with links from the merchant site that he works for to his own personal site...

    Major conflict of interest! Who is he looking out for? Himself? His employer? His affiliates?

    No way would I get involved in something like this. Too many opportunities for fraud.

    Andy

    _______________
    <font color="red">Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!</font>

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nice move Andy as you buy into the falsehoods spread by the other ABWers above and spout out to me and my honest merchant client with this type of venom

    No way would I get involved in something like this. Too many opportunities for fraud.

    I am not an affiliate of Holdup Suspenders and never have been since I redesigned their site in 1998 to accept online sales. The site is there to explain their USA patented men's accessory product line to brick-n-mortar men's shops -sporting goods and department stores. They are proud of their proven track record as a family run business for being the finest source for USA made high quality suspenders.

    In 1998, after they contacted me through a referral from a large national Ad agency, I sat down and gelled a ebiz plan for this Company. They had 61 reseller storefront accounts and a 5 page really crummy website, no brand recognition with 2 scanned page images showing the 24 suspenders. That site was up since 1996.

    Domain Name: SUSPENDERS.COM
    Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
    Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
    Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
    Name Server: NS00.NS0.COM
    Name Server: NS119.PAIR.COM
    Status: ACTIVE
    Updated Date: 05-nov-2001
    Creation Date: 18-mar-1996
    Expiration Date: 19-mar-2007

    I built this 30 page web site, did the logo, product images and artwork, first paper catalog layout, and added the shopping cart for a total price of 900.00. Promises were made and kept for me to use this as a IMS showcase site to attract other web business in exchange for a low development price and reciprocal links to exchange traffic. Holdup Suspenders pays me 350.00 monthly fee to act as webmaster, wholesale account recruiter via the web and SE traffic generator.

    Affiliate marketing was just a minor part of the Traffic generation plan as Holdup Suspenders has held the top positions in all major SE's without paying for submissions. They opened a Overture account last year and use a few other minor traffic sources like Giftfinder. I interfaced them to CJ in 1998 to Y2000 as AM and to this day they held the highest CJ conversion ratio year after year averaging 1 sale per 15 clicks on affiliate traffic. Problem was CJ recruiting efforts and lack of stats to highlight Holdup Suspenders as a top performer.

    My pleas to CJ to publish a meaningful conversion ratio, clean house on shanky PPC Dupers as fronts for the spammers and eliminating or identifying the incenters as worthless traffic sources and CPC cheats was thrown at CJ management. I championed best practices in this industry well before a Single ABWer knew of the abuses on all the popular boards of the time. It was a crime then and now to not allow the good honest merchants to rise rather then get buried amongst the crap posers and non-converting losers. This eventually led to CJ';s announcing EPC and dropping CPC merchants and affiliates. Too bad they didn't listen and go as a 100% product only network and send their spamming lead merchant Dupers with their scummy lead fee affiliates out the backdoor with the click cheats. Had then done this they'd control this industry as NO ONE trusted beFree or LS's AMs to even report sales let alone pay commissions.

    Since they dropped their affiliate program in Y2000, paying every penny due to CJ, when the merchant rate increased 30% without cleaning house on the shanky merchants. I have over the years added 90 pages and grew their ecatalog to showcase 94 styles/colors/patterns of their suspenders. They received a new patent addendum for their slant faced no-slip clip and new USA patent and registered trademark for their Double-UPs line of dual clip suspenders.

    The web site helped grow brick-n-mortar resellers from the original 61 to over 1950 retailers www.suspenders.com/directory.htm and my lead just landed a contract to supply key Federated Stores Inc. department stores with their line and POS displays. They renewed their contract this week to supply Broadway and UK theaters and Traveling entertainment shows with their suspenders through a large theatrical supply company. Their satisfied repeat customer list includes actors. news anchors, 2 Presidents and a new Calif Governor. They are the only apparel accessory manufacturer in the world with a lifetime warranty and no questions asked money back 30 day guarantee.

    Their conversion ratio ranges from 1/10 the last 3 days to a high of 1/31 regardless of the traffic source. NONE of this growth came from ANY affiliate traffic as the new program was done as an experiment to see if I could develop a BHO parasite hijacking proof system built into the secure ecommerce cart hosting service.

    I didn't have to dig into anything for this figure as the owner computes it daily and he called me 2 hours ago to discuss pressing new ebusiness and registering and hosting 2 new domain sites for his patented Sloops designer blue jeans. He wants help with photos of the doubleups & Jeans for press releases, new catalog and 2 fashion magazine Ad layouts and some introductory reseller and shipping stuffer mailers for the January launch.

    He read over the blistering comments posted here after getting a phone call this afternoon from a rude crude ABW member. He let the wank rant about the site design looking like it was done by a teenager as a high school project. I was ratted out on my claims of Holdup Suspenders having one of the highest conversion web sites on the internet and posting false conversion ratios in public forums to gather in new affiliate traffic which I could funnel off to the Ecomcity.

    Then he laughed and promptly told the caller they can take their complaints about me and Holdup Suspenders site and shove it up their ass.

    Neither I nor my clients need this vindictive trashing by the butt-holes populating this board strictly here to hone their tricks for clicks campaigns and bait AM's into giving them SE Spam food. Holdup Suspenders doesn't need or want any conversion diluting affiliate traffic and shady marketers even representing their brand let alone calling them to trash their webmaster and marketing consultant as a unethical fraud.

    I will inform the 16 ABWers who are affiliates, of which only 4 have generated sales or sent more then 40 visitors this last year, that unless they object with good reason their balances if any will be paid off and they'll have till December 31st to remove their Holdup Suspenders links. This program will be by personal invite only or reserved for use for monetizing reciprocal links to apparel related content or portal communities.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on November 25, 2003 at 10:34 PM.]

  23. #23
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    Mike, funny stuff as always. But you have never been able to point out why a link back to your cybermall is a good thing for affiliates. How in the heck can you claim that it is a falsehood that you have 1-2 links on every page back to your cybermall??? All anyone has to do is visit the site and see for themselves.

    I know you have said numerous times that the links are not a bad thing, but never why a good thing. Curious.

    It is also pretty funny that while not filled with SE spammers or dupers, you admit to only sending them 150 visitors this month - with so little competition, with the low numbers from abw members. Shouldn't that traffic be higher? That I think speaks volumes.

    As for someone calling the merchant, the moment I saw your site, and then his and that he would accept that. I knew you two were made for each other. What could someone warn that guy that isn't staring him in the face.

    Good thing that national ad agency found two neighbors to hook up, amazing - neighbors in the business and didn't even know each other until the national ad agency hooked you up. I bet it was the biggest national ad agency as well.

    Can you tell me that story again how you saved the free world in the 70s by freeing us from dupers and other evils and then traveled back in time and toppled hitler?

    Chet

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    I will inform the 16 ABWers who are affiliates, of which only 4 have generated sales or sent more then 40 visitors this last year, that unless they object with good reason their balances if any will be paid off and they'll have till December 31st to remove their Holdup Suspenders links. This program will be by personal invite only or reserved for use for monetizing reciprocal links to apparel related content or portal communities.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My goodness, I go to Missouri for the day to conduct some business and come back to reading this OVER KILL GEEEZEEE.

    I have stayed with you even though the site is terrible, you wrote on this board INACURRATE stats for my site and I still was not offended only posted the actual numbers at that very second (my tracking is real-time).

    You are wanting to Kick out all affiliates from ABW?
    Why exactly?

    A person called and badmouthed you?
    From what you wrote all of us can call and bad mouth you and it will not make a difference, so what’s the heat all about?

    Mike I am not talking about all the other junk because I can careless about all that stuff, but the design really is TERRIBLE. Hey I am not trashing it I’m telling the truth, the navigation is by far the worst I have come in contact with. The colors and fonts make reading the monster paragraphs a killer.

    The darned statements should be exactly that a STATEMENT, but you go on like you do here with your posts. A DAMN DIATRIBE, you cannot seem to stop. The buyer can care less, that’s what makes the site terrible in my eyes.

    Well if you are kicking people out of the affiliate program because your are acting like a baby well so be it, good luck with your new ventures!

    SandraR<FONT face=Arial size=2>

    </FONT>

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    I've been trying to keep out of this thread, but can't keep my itching fingers from the keyboard any longer.

    Mike, you're doing this merchant a serious dis-service. His product is great, there is a lot of potential interest from good affiliate marketers on this forum.

    The site looks frankly amateur. Sorry, but there's no other way to describe it. If a high -performance partner like SandraR can't generate sales since the program was taken out of CJ that must tell you something.

    It has a lot of potential but your'e putting people off and stifling growth.

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