View Poll Results: Rate your programming knowledge.

Voters
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  • none

    13 18.06%
  • some knowledge

    14 19.44%
  • mediocre knowledge

    14 19.44%
  • very good knowledge

    13 18.06%
  • expert

    18 25.00%
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  1. #1
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    Ok, I told you that I will post a few polls in order to understand your needs and bring you better services. Thanks in advance to all of you who take the time to vote. Here is the second question....

    How would you rate your programming knowledge of server-side languages?
    NOTE: This includes ANY server-side programming language (PHP, ASP, CGI, etc), i.e. the one that you are best in.
    Alex
    AlexBet.com - Professional Website Design, Website Development, Mobile App Development!


    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
    Benjamin Franklin

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Ooh, I like this poll I've been doing server side programming for 7 years now, started with perl, moved on to PHP and later ASP. Anybody else capable of joining my ranks?

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  3. #3
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I haven't had that many years of experience but I've learned very quickly.

  4. #4
    I like traffic lights
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    Errr CGI isn't a language, it's an interface specification. :^)

    Maybe you meant PERL ?

  5. #5
    Newbie
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    I am familiar with ASP, JSP, PHP, PERL, though i use php the most now.

  6. #6
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    Expert in most languages. Once you get the jist of it, the syntax is easy.

  7. #7
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    Wow, glad to see so many expert programmers here.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Errr CGI isn't a language, it's an interface specification <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Sorry if I offended you! I never used it so I wouldn't know. Ok, change CGI with Perl then.

    Thank you all guys and gals for your votes! Keep them coming.
    Alex
    AlexBet.com - Professional Website Design, Website Development, Mobile App Development!


    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
    Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
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    I think 'expert' has been used a little too liberally.

  9. #9
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    Note: Making webmerge templates is not considered programming.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Maybe this poll should be modified to question the number of years we've been programming or the number of dynamic websites we've created. I somehow doubt there are that many experts myself. This certainly isn't a programming site, so we shouldn't see a majority on the 'expert' level.
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Um no you should see a lot of experts because what else would experts be doing? Would they work with php and cgi to make websites or pick their noses?

    By the way I did not vote myself an expert and it's possible I could have but I know enough to know that I don't know everything.

  12. #12
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm great at POP or so my kids keep telling me
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    The people here are much different from the people on my programming site. I think people are a little more real and less robotic on ABW. That's why I think the expert ratio is a little skewed.
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  14. #14
    Full Member jollygoodpirate's Avatar
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    I see plenty of people making way more money than I do with less than half the programming skills I have...

    If being a successful affiliate was proportional to programming skills a lot of folks would be in negative numbers, instead they talk about six figure incomes.

    Irrelevant.

  15. #15
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    Expert in some programming languages. Fair at marketing.

    Programming skills can help generate sales. It doesn't guarantee them. One good marketing skill is worth 10 programming skills if the goal is to sell something online.

    Wayne

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Wayne,

    You bring up some very good points. I really need to take a marketing class or something. I'm learning lots doing affiliate marketing, but I'm sure there's a world of knowledge out there that I've barely tapped.

    Maybe we should have a poll about our marketing skills.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  17. #17
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    Well, I myself also think that the number of experts is a little skewed. It all depends on how people percieve themselves, but I can't blame them for having a high opinion for themselves, of course. But yes I agree, an expert should be someone that has years of experience and that is a true programming GURY in any (or all) of those programming languages.

    @ Wayne,
    My thoughts also. The marketing side is always MUCH more important because you can always pay a programmer to do the website code for you and then make tons of money with good marketing skills.
    Alex
    AlexBet.com - Professional Website Design, Website Development, Mobile App Development!


    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
    Benjamin Franklin

  18. #18
    Member Speedy's Avatar
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    Good programmers are extremely hard to come across, most people who call or class themselves as a programmer know enough to get by on for their own projects, but you cant blame folk for wanting to have a better opinion of themselves.

    A true programmer is one who can take any clients idea and put it into reality.

    But as been said, whats the point in that when 'Marketing' is where the real talent lies.

    The Affiliates who make a living at this are usually good at design, programming and marketing but can't be classed as an expert in any, just successful.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Life at the top is hard,
    But life at the bottom is harder ....

  19. #19
    Full Member jollygoodpirate's Avatar
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    I know several website where DESIGN is not even a consideration. I wish some of the old timers would chime in about this subject: UGLY SELLS!

    It is all about traffic and conversions.

  20. #20
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    I agree with the above assessments of those above and would like to add some thoughts on "experts".

    An Expert:

    1) Generally starts in the knowledge of one language. They know this language inside out. Generally, this includes at least 5 years or more of experience. (For me, this is VB/ASP as I have been programming since it was released)

    2) They know what their skills are, can look at a project and accurately estimate the project in a matter of minutes with a 20% accuracy. They can estimate VERY accurately with an hours worth of examination. (for me this is the case)

    3) They know what their skills are not. Anything in their language of choice that they do now know, they are aware of and know where to find resources in the event the project enters a skillset they are not familiar with. (being honest with your skills takes a mature mind)

    4) They easily can accumulate additional languages. Generally, most languages are identical when you talk about structure. Syntax is easy to learn. Usually an expert has several other languages that they can program in, but are not experts. Their productivity decreases in the other languages, but their work will be as professional as if they are within their language of choice. (I have experience in 8 other languages and can program at an average level in 5 of them.)

    5) They are productive. This is self-explanitory. When they set a date, 95% of the time they meet it. If they do not, the client is alerted BEFORE the date arrives. An expert can pump out more code than 2-3 average programmers and the code is significantly cleaner

    6) They can manage teams. Virtual or in person.

    7) They can mentor. (notice i did not say teach.)

  21. #21
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    Snib,
    I started coding Atari basic bulletin boards (BBS) in 1984 as a hoby. Coded through the 90's with VB/SQL Server client server and some .ASP & also ran a conulting firm for a few years. Now I work in .net using C# with SQL Server backend... Hows that?!

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    chrisk,

    Ooooh a challenge!! Well then I started programming in Basic back in 1989 then moved onto C, Pascal and Hypertalk. Released an mIRC script back in 1996 that became world renoun (Hawkee Fserve). Later I wrote a content editor in perl that was implemented for companies like TGI Fridays, Sonic Drive-In and Learning Express Toys. I got a degree in Computer Science at the University of California, Irvine. Since then I've been programming in PHP and ASP running my own websites, doing part time consulting and working full time as an advanced programmer using PHP and mySQL. I do projects for BMW, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Wells Fargo, Epson and Beckman Coulter. But when it's all said and done, the most rewarding work I do is for myself.

    Hows that!?

    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  23. #23
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    Snib,

    Cool! Some of my large projects have been a decision support system that tied in huge accounting, production and forecasting databased plus an asset management system for their wells. All done in VB/SQL Server... Another more recent application was a national call center / drug tracking and distribution system for a drug therapy company that delivers particular drugs to any hospital in the country within hours. This was also a VB/SQL Server client server app...

    I also agree that the most rewarding work is for myself. It's nice to build MY business with my coding skills instead of someone else's.

    The hardest decision I had to make was one involving my coding style for my own projects. My code now is nowhere near the kind of code I would hand over to a customer. All of my stuff now is designed to get the job done instead of being perfect. I almost never rewrite my stuff if it works ok. I almost ALWAYS rewrote the code I gave to a customer a few times.

    I made a decision to not call myself a coder by trade anymore and simply use it as an enabler for my marketing skills. If I concentrated on being a coder now, I would not have time for the marketing side.

  24. #24
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Sounds like we're walking a very similar path. I too am moving away from the 'programmer' or 'coder' title. When people ask what I do, I tell them I do online marketing and entertainment. The development process is really just the first step in a successful online establishment. So much more is involved that you really can't focus on the programming. I too have the get-it-done mentality when it comes to building my websites. Nobody's going to be using this code except me, but when I code for clients I make my code much more clear. I just don't want to be bothered down the road with technical questions about my code when I can simply make it clear enough for any programmer to take on in the future.

    I really can't wait for the day when I can break my reliance on my full time job and pour all my time into my own establishments. This is my #1 goal and with the way things are going, I won't need this job next year

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  25. #25
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    Snib,

    Back in July 2002 I tested the waters with some serious TigerDirect affiliate stuff. I quickly won a contest with them ($1k prize) and decided to take affiliate marketing more seriously - especially after reading posts from people like Pete.

    In November of 2002, my contracts were all dried up and you know how hard it is to find contract work for November or December. I spent all my time working on affiliate stuff. In April 2003 I hit $3k in revenue and decided that I would spent my backup money supporting myself while trying to make this work instead of looking for a new job. By July I hit $8k and was able to support myself without dipping into savings. That was one year since I had put up my first serious affiliate effort.

    Good Luck!

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