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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Todd what happens when there's proof and admission of an affiliate using IFrames as per the CJ TOS:

    "You shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith, including, but not limited to, using any device, program, robot, Iframes, hidden frames, redirects or clicking on Links that You place to the Advertiser."

    Do you give them 60 days or something and if they keep doing it, do you boot them out of the CJ network?

    I work in lounge pants

  2. #2
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    I also want to know what happens when an affiliate automatically pops open the site in another window when there was no click. Thus setting their cookie or overwriting someone elses cookie possibly?
    Thanks.

    ... Disgruntled ...
    iWorkWithFools.com

  3. #3
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    I also want to know why said affiliate who admits to such use in public - in writing - more than once - is not IMMEDIATELY booted from the network?

    It seems like a double standard - big time theif gets pat on hand as long as he/she makes money for the Networks.

    This IS NOT ethical! Do the right thing.
    Give theives the boot!!!

    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  4. #4
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    And I also want to add...

    this person is NOT some newbie that doesn't know which end is up. This person knew full well what they were doing.

    Ebudae

    If you understand, things are just as they are...
    if you do not understand, things are just as they are.

  5. #5
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    The catch phrase is "shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith..."

    If they are using iframes to cause transactions in good faith, there is no violation.

    If, on the other hand, txns are not in good faith via iframes, submit all relevant info via AAQ and someone will investigate it.

    Thanks,

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  6. #6
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    What good faith could be in use here?

    Good faith that CJ doesn't give a crap what you do as long as you are big enough? That is the faith I am begining to hold true.

    Chet

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I am confused Todd.
    Can you give an example of a transaction that is NOT in good faith? An example of using iframes to cause transactions in good faith?

    Would that mean that if a person puts iframes on their site to overwrite another affiliate's cookies with out an actual click by the visitor to the merchant's site to set the cookie, and sale is made later, that it is a transaction in good faith, even if it overwrote another affiliate's cookie?

    Does a transaction NOT in good faith only mean a fraud order of some type?

    I personally don't think it is in good faith that 247malls or the other sites mentioned used the iframes. They were used to overwrite affiliate cookies without an actual click thru to the merchant site.

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I have take an oath to not discuss religious issues ..."The catch phrase is "shall not cause any Transactions to be made that are not in good faith..."

    Not knowing which "good faith" this refers to makes me think there is a catch or trap involved in the terminology. Reminds me of the camp counselor's instructions when he handed me a pillow case, stick and a flashlight and told me to catch some snipes along some backwoods trail. He thought I was a smart ass when I swapped the pillow case for my trusty butterfly net. Something about bending the rules to better suit my purposes.

    Is affiliate marketing similar to snipe hunting with no defined target, but plenty of rules to bend?

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  9. #9
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    How does a 1x1 pixel hidden iframe that cannot be seen be considered good faith??

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    If they are using iframes to cause transactions in good faith, there is no violation.

    If, on the other hand, txns are not in good faith via iframes...
    Whaaaa...

    Now I'm really confused

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    terrymc ...."How does a 1x1 pixel hidden iframe that cannot be seen be considered good faith??"

    Like I said ...no one has ever seen a snipe.. but faith in catching one will pay off one day for some lucky camper.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  12. #12
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    I believe there are merchants that allow their sites to be framed. So that would be an example of a "good faith" use of frames.

    However, using a 1 x 1 iFrame that is invisible to the visitor should be considered NOT good faith.

    Everybody needs to calm down and let the investigation begin. If the networks start deactivating everyone on the word of a message board we're all in trouble. I seem to remember a HUGE thread where people were angry over being deactivated by CJ.

  13. #13
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Well said Zoe. Thanks for the rational response.

    Trustno.1, I suggest you submit your information via AAQ so we can begin the investigation.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  14. #14
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    I did, please keep us informed of this thread
    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=6466080235
    thanks

    I work in lounge pants

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Well, after all the grief today, they discontinued using the 1x1 iframes FOR NOW.

    But they did admit to doing it in the other post if that is of any help.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Thats what Google's cache is for.

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    While checking my position on a keyword, I checked out one of my competitor's websites. When lo and behold, I see, in the status bar, the merchants website loading up with this websites PID. No website pops up, he's just sneaking the cookie in WITHOUT a click.

    I checked the source code and found they are using some kind of javascript to open the link up while your on the same page.

    This is from the same merchant who requested that I remove reference to their company in my meta tags for some stupid reason. You would think they would catch something like this, since they are checking people's meta tags. Of course, they probably ain't looking for it either.

    -----------------------------
    Scott

    Have a nice day unless you have other plans

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nature Boy you should report this cookie stuffing routine and the perp affiliate to the merchant. Hopefully this merchant is active here at ABW and will alert other AM's of the offender. I see Haiko still hasn't put up a "Hall of Shame" section at ABW to OUT those affiliates and merchants caught redhanded setting cookies without a click.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Nature Boy, I'd definitely contact the merchant about this. If they're so picky about meta tags, this should send them into outer space!

    Let us know what the response is.

    Andy

    _______________
    Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!

  20. #20
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    If any of you ever see any affiliate using iframes to set cookies, please let me know or submit the details via AAQ. We will investigate and take swift action.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    What about using javascript to set cookies?

    I sent an email to the merchant yesterday with the details of whats going on and how they are doing it. I'm not sure if I'll get a reply or not.

    -----------------------------
    Scott

    Have a nice day unless you have other plans

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Haiko agreed to open up a "Hall of Shame" forum here to OUT these cookie stuffing bastards. It will be amazing to Todd when some are his merchants, top affiliates and his BHO partners are actually setting multiples from their domain page views.

    If any of you ever see any affiliate using iframes to set cookies, please let me know or submit the details via AAQ. We will investigate and take swift action.....Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  23. #23
    I like traffic lights
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    I would guess that CJ has got iframe cookie setters pretty much under control.

    If you look at the stats here:

    http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...bbug_site.html

    and here:

    http://www.securityspace.com/s_surve...bbug_site.html

    you will notice that in Nov 2002 less that 0.2% of qksrv.net queries were from within an iframe. In Jan 2004 it was 0%.

    BFree (bfast.com) is a different story - 1.1% - although that's a lot less that the 3.5% they had in Nov 2002.

    My guess is that CJ's spider is pretty good at sniffing out this sort of thing.

    ****************************
    George Orwell got the date wrong

  24. #24
    I like traffic lights
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    Actually, after thinking about it further, those stats on that site are only for qksrv.net image urls (used for counting impressions).

    Most people hiding clicks in iFrames would be unlikely to add the image URL, so those stats are useless for counting iframe clickthroughs.

    Ignore them.

    But I still stand behind my CJ spider comment. :^)

    ****************************
    George Orwell got the date wrong

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    It seems to that as teh trusted third party, it is up to CJ to find these things, not up to us to do it. It is CJ's job. If they keep happening, is CJ getting the job done?

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

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