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  1. #1
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    I just got a call, starting in April, ebay will boot any affiliate who sets or forces clicks - this goes across all their network relations.

    Good news.

    Chet

  2. #2
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Chez Noir

    Thats great news but thank God we don't have to give murderers 4 weeks to get their act together like we have to do with these thieves

    Gordon YouTrek.com
    All parasites are scumbags and should be treated as such....STAMP EM OUT!!!

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Hey Chet,

    That IS good news! You must be a member of the eBay VIP club to get a phone call from them!

    Thanks for letting us know.

    Andy

    _______________
    Put an end to commission theft. Call the Exterminators! The old networks all have PARASITES that overwrite cookies. The networks know this, and allow it to happen!

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well some major merchants are starting to come out of the woodwork and I'm sure raise some stink with their network providers.

    Where's the network reps putting their TOS terms to the test. Silence ...won't cut it any more as this one requires enforcement of existing terms and hopefully new clear TOS statements terminating affiliates from the NETWORK for setting cookies without a physical click. Seems they aren't smart enough to act now on this before the real merchants smarten up and demand physical clicks from the BHO's too!

    Keep hiding behind the "merchants choice" smoke screen while refusing to enforce your TOS. Bet some smart merchant lawyers will see the non-enforcement of the networks TOS & CoC, plus the hidden cookie setting schemes have raped their clients royally....and demand refunds.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    "Payment is one option that isn't negotiable. Merchants require it for purchases ...SO DO WE."

  5. #5
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    I don't think that solves the problem of ebay paying to have themselves pop-up through the non-affiliate channel.

  6. #6
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    so is this going to outlaw any and all popups by affiliates, either on their own sites, or through ad co's like fastclick? if so, that's great news! also, will this be across all networks?

    _____________________________
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  7. #7
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    i think the popups are a seperate issue. this has to do with blind cookie stuffing

    Web_Novice
    "Should I encounter a moment of clarity, I hope to have it recorded in these journals."

  8. #8
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    Whadaya know...2 "active registrations" in 2 days. I wonder if they'll be reversed next week or if we've turned the corner.

  9. #9
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    I disagree with this move. eBay has permitted popups of their web site and keyword pages in an effort to maximize branding AND potential income for its affiliates.

    As you all may know, some of those affiliates were making in the hundreds of thousands a month, including myself. I spent 10's of thousands per month in generating traffic for ebay and it paid for us all. I only got paid for bids and registrations that were generated after a user saw my popunder so what is wrong with that.

    I think it was a huge win-win for the affiliate and eBay that has now been put to an end.

    Oh well. I have many other advertisers willing to buy popunders, but I thought eBay was smart in promoting that way. I would guess it was a big help in their growth and they will have to find a new way to make up for it.

    Creator

  10. #10
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    I spent 10's of thousands per month in generating traffic for ebay and it paid for us all. I only got paid for bids and registrations that were generated after a user saw my popunder so what is wrong with that.

    This is probably a troll, but I'll bite.

    I’ll tell you what’s wrong with this…

    First, from eBay’s perspective, why should you get paid for a sale for popping up an ad on someone’s PC that sets their cookie? If the person clicked on that ad, then yes, you should get paid, but why should you get paid if that person went to eBay on his own and bid?

    Next, from my perspective, eBay has a 30-day cookie, meaning that if I refer someone to them and they decide to bid at a later time, as long as it is within 30 days, and as long as someone else doesn’t refer that visitor, I get paid 5 cents. Your popunder hijacks that commission from me, regardless of whether you referred the visitor. The person may not have even seen your popunder, but bid on an auction that they found on my site and bookmarked.

    If you still think you’re being treated unfairly, then do you think that affiliates should be able to set the eBay cookie with a simple banner ad from a site? Should I be able to set that cookie for each and every one of my 15,000 daily visitors? Because if I could, I'd make a lot more than I do.

    You may be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars per month, but you sure aren’t earning it.

    http://www.hockeydb.com

  11. #11
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    The guy was ripping ebay off. They could have bought pop-unders for a few cents per thousand impressions if they had really wanted them.

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Ralph Slate:
    _I spent 10's of thousands per month in generating traffic for ebay and it paid for us all. I only got paid for bids and registrations that were generated after a user saw my popunder so what is wrong with that._

    This is probably a troll, but I'll bite.

    I’ll tell you what’s wrong with this…

    First, from eBay’s perspective, why should you get paid for a sale for popping up an ad on someone’s PC that sets their cookie? If the person clicked on that ad, then yes, you should get paid, but why should you get paid if that person went to eBay on his own and bid?

    Next, from my perspective, eBay has a 30-day cookie, meaning that if I refer someone to them and they decide to bid at a later time, as long as it is within 30 days, and as long as someone else doesn’t refer that visitor, I get paid 5 cents. Your popunder hijacks that commission from me, regardless of whether you referred the visitor. The person may not have even seen your popunder, but bid on an auction that they found on my site and bookmarked.

    If you still think you’re being treated unfairly, then do you think that affiliates should be able to set the eBay cookie with a simple banner ad from a site?

    You may be getting hundreds of thousands of dollars per month, but you sure aren’t earning it.

    http://www.hockeydb.com


    Not a troll, a new member.

    Now, to address your first comment:

    If I pay, out of my own pocket, $3 CPM to buy popunder ads to promote ebay, then yes I should get paid. And eBay agreed, that is why they allowed it and paid me. The reason? This is called branding. Many advertisers do it. Some pay for their own ads, others pay affiliates or 'agencies' to promote their brand for them. The way I see it eBay was investing in branding by paying affiliates to foot the bill for the popunders.

    I do agree that there were some affiliates abusing this privelege, I caught a few of them loading ebay's page in a 1x1 iframe so it was never even seen by the visitor. This is unfair play and was reported.

    Now, from your perspective:

    If you are an affiliate running a web site with ebay banner ads or text links, you are likely looking to refer customers that are ready to buy and such are paid for that.

    If your visitor does not buy, and a day later is reminded to buy in the form of my popunder (branding ad) then of course I deserve to be paid. In fact, even if that visitor does not buy for a few days later, I still deserve to be paid as I was investing in branding for eBay.

    To address your final question:

    Yes, I think it would be a wonderful thing for affiliates to be able to set a cookie for displaying a banner. After all you are promoting ebay again in the form of branding. Even if the visitor does not buy at that moment, they may remember your ebay ad the next time they are thinking of selling something.

    This is the same reason newspapers and magazines are paid for their ads. No one buys anthing via a newspaper ad, but they may buy from remembering seeing those ads. Your web site is just another medium for advertisers to promote via branding. Even worse, many get away with FREE advertising by not paying you adequately for those 'branding' ads and only paying you for actions. Getting them sales is really not your responsibility, you are promoting their brand, it is their responsibility to sell to the end user.

    My little lesson in branding.

    I hope you can now see where I am coming from.
    I think that there are a lot of companies getting away with cheap branding online buy paying affiliates only on a CPA basis. All they have to do is throw you a bone every once in a while and they get you to promote their brand at little cost to them.

    Oh well, I could go on forever, but I can not wait until the day the advertising industry realizes the value of branding online.


    Creator

  13. #13
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    yah, it's bad enough having to go through Fastclick and turn off all the hotbar and smiley crap, but then I had to start turning off all of the ebay popunders and whatever they were disguised as... waste of my time and pure theft of the commissions I earned from people who clicked on the links I put on my sites...
    * edited to add that I'm glad I only use popunders on one page of one site... please don't think any less of me LOL :P


    quote:
    Yes, I think it would be a wonderful thing for affiliates to be able to set a cookie for displaying a banner. After all you are promoting ebay again in the form of branding. Even if the visitor does not buy at that moment, they may remember your ebay ad the next time they are thinking of selling something.

    ...this brought me a good laugh... This would put an end to advertising (A.M. or otherwise) in the form of hundreds, if not thousands of banner blockers and software lke norton that simply removes banners. This would breed pages and pages of nothing but banners... what would people have to remember if they never saw the banner in the first place because it was buried under a hundred other banners on one page?
    Branding my ass....

    _____________________________
    Zimpy.com - Make a statement!

    Die Parasites Die!!

    [This message was edited by Celicaphile on March 05, 2004 at 03:40 PM.]

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    quote:
    My little lesson in branding.

    Creator

    So you think just because someone got a popunder that they probably didn't even look at, that you should get paid? Why should ebay foot the bill for you setting cookies on 1000 pc's at the rate of 3 dollars per?

    We don't do cheap branding, it's called performance based marketing for a reason, because you have to send the visitor there, you get paid when someone CLICKS on an ad, not just for seeing an ad. If ebay wants to pay you CPM for your popunders, that's fine, but leave my cookie alone.

    Looks like you will need to learn something about actually sending targeted visitors to ebay. Better get reading.

  15. #15
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    The reason you received hundreds of thousands of dollars, and not $3 per thousand pop-unders, was because ebay thought it was paying for performance.

    You took advantage of them.

    The reason they pay $5 and up for active registrations is because the real affiliates deliver that value and more to ebay.

    Your 'branding' efforts were actually worth approximately what you paid for them ($3). And that is why ebay is not going to pay for it any longer.

  16. #16
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    Creator,

    Any ideas on how on a percentage basis this is going to hurt your model? eBay pushes me to do PPC and they say that's how you can make lots of dough. But I wonder what's going to happen with this new change.

    On top of that, how have the reversals treated you? How do you feel about competing with MSN?

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    I spent 10's of thousands per month in generating traffic for ebay and it paid for us all. I only got paid for bids and registrations that were generated after a user saw my popunder so what is wrong with that.
    Creator,

    Haven't you heard yet? PEOPLE DON'T LIKE POP UPS OR POP UNDERS! That's why so many ISPs and legitimate toolbars block them.
    quote:
    If your visitor does not buy, and a day later is reminded to buy in the form of my popunder (branding ad) then of course I deserve to be paid. In fact, even if that visitor does not buy for a few days later, I still deserve to be paid as I was investing in branding for eBay.

    You feel you deserve to be paid more than an affiliate who doesn't pay for pops? Bullshoot! It costs me money to serve the page that the user clicked on in the first place. I pay bandwidth to serve the page. I spend my time building pages with the editor kit. These efforts also help to brand eBay. You aren't entitled to it any more than anyone else.

    And what Ralph said!

    Andy

    _______________
    Put an end to commission theft. Call the Exterminators! The old networks all have PARASITES that overwrite cookies. The networks know this, and allow it to happen!

  18. #18
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    If I pay, out of my own pocket, $3 CPM to buy popunder ads to promote ebay, then yes I should get paid.

    Here's your mistake. You have no right to be paid.

    If eBay wanted to be associated with popunders, and if they were receiving the value that they were paying you, then they would spend $10k to run them instead of paying you $100k to do so.

    You took advantage of a situation that, if I understand it, is against CJ's TOS. I think you deserve NOT to be paid here.

    I sure hope you don't have any long term contracts to serve eBay popunders. I bet that without setting that cookie like birdshot out of a shotgun, that your "branding" campaign won't be worth what you're paying to buy those ads. And I suspect that my revenue will now increase.

    Ralph

    http://www.hockeydb.com

  19. #19
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    Creator,

    Are you popping an Ebay ad or are you simply popping an ebay page and setting a cookie?

    If you are doing the latter, it is not branding, it is simply and most definitely commission/cookie hijacking. If that is indeed what you are doing the correct term would not be branding, but would be theft...

    On the other hand, if your are popping an Ebay ad and giving the user a choice as to whether they want to click through to Ebay, your branding claim is legitimate.

    Please clarify for us.

    ATKOgirl

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Not a troll, a new member.



    Hope you had lurked enough that you have your flameproof suit on! The biggest anti-ad types haven't even come to this thread yet...

    Although I must say, your appearance with those claims *is* awfully conveeenient...

    quote:
    This would put an end to advertising (A.M. or otherwise) in the form of hundreds, if not thousands of banner blockers and software lke norton that simply removes banners. ~Celicaphile


    I don't agree. Regular banners/popups/popunders usually generate cookies, too. Only instead of commission-tracking cookies, they're usually cookies which track which ads were seen, when, and where. Places like Norton couldn't care less whether a cookie tracks commissions or something else. So what Creator did won't make any difference to the blocker issue, IMO.


    quote:
    it's bad enough having to go through Fastclick and turn off all the hotbar and smiley crap,


    Yeah, that's a PITA! Those ads seem to grow like vines!

    quote:
    The reason you received hundreds of thousands of dollars, and not $3 per thousand pop-unders, was because ebay thought it was paying for performance.

    You took advantage of them.~Jimbo



    Serves 'em right! They're a reversal maniac by all accounts I've read here. They've been playing a shell game with commissions for ages. Every month there's huge complaints here about mega-reversals from them--often resulting in multiple-page threads!

    I can see you all being p*ssed about your commissions being usurped--but I laugh at eBay itself. They got what was coming to them, the reversal-maniacs!

    ~Cheapskate merchants need not apply

  21. #21
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ATKOgirl:
    Creator,

    Are you popping an Ebay ad or are you simply popping an ebay page and setting a cookie?

    ATKOgirl


    That really is the question although I'm betting that non-auto-cookie-setting popunders not have turned 10s of thousands into 100s of thousands.

  22. #22
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    quote:
    Yes, I think it would be a wonderful thing for affiliates to be able to set a cookie for displaying a banner. After all you are promoting ebay again in the form of branding. Even if the visitor does not buy at that moment, they may remember your ebay ad the next time they are thinking of selling something.

    This is the same reason newspapers and magazines are paid for their ads. No one buys anthing via a newspaper ad, but they may buy from remembering seeing those ads. Your web site is just another medium for advertisers to promote via branding. Even worse, many get away with FREE advertising by not paying you adequately for those 'branding' ads and only paying you for actions. Getting them sales is really not your responsibility, you are promoting their brand, it is their responsibility to sell to the end user.

    My little lesson in branding.


    OK, here comes my little lesson in Internet Advertising in 2004 then.

    There is a very good reason why the Pay-for-performance industry evolved and is booming right now. Wallpapering the web with banners and popups and popunders do little branding, but very much alienate consumers. There are studies to show this quantitatively but just ask a couple of your web surfing friends what they think of internet ads.

    There are ways to successfully brand using the web, but it's definitely not by banners and popups.

    Why do you think it is that Google AdWords is booming, Google Adsense is booming, why is it that text links have the highest EPCs if you look at CJ stats, and that all kinds of PPC and other text ad providers are popping up everywhere? Because banners and other crappy ad forms do not work for branding no matter how many times the IAB may claim their effectiveness in press releases. The industry realized they are paying for nothing and this gave the green light to the evolution of performance-based advertising.

    quote:
    Oh well, I could go on forever, but I can not wait until the day the advertising industry realizes the value of branding online.


    The advertising industry is well aware of the value of branding online. But it's not by running banners and popups... they tried that for years, blew up millions of dollars to nothing and finally proved that it doesn't work. There are very innovative branding techniques on the web, but the key to them is that the marketer needs to stretch their imagination a bit more to actually engage the user and not just try to grab their attention with a banner on some web page.

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