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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    Grease em up boys and girls. It looks like eBay is ready to us again.

    Look for the email from them in your box, but this is the important part:

    quote:
    2. Change to Tracking of Active Registrations, Bids and BINs

    To address a tracking inefficiency that resulted in potential double counting of ACRU, Bid, and BIN activity among affiliates and other partners, we implemented a more accurate tracking infrastructure which rolled out with the price increase on February 1, 2004. The final component of this implementation will be launched in our program on April 1, 2004, and will result in cookies from eBay's natural search efforts competing equally with cookies from all other partners and affiliates. Previously, if a user clicked on an eBay natural search link after clicking on an affiliate link, the affiliate still received credit for the ACRU, Bid or BIN transaction. Beginning in April, eBay affiliates may see a decrease in the number of ACRU, Bid and/or BIN transactions reported.


    The way I understand it, if I send an user to eBay, and they use the eBay search to find another item to bid on instead of the item I had listed on my site that the user clicked on, eBay doesn't pay.
    Scott
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#!t
    Don't tell me that you'll do it... SHOW ME.
    Just because everyone else is drinking it is no reason for me to drink the KOOL-AID.

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    Just in case you don't receive the email:

    quote:
    Thank you for your continued support of the eBay Affiliate Program. This message provides an update on several important program changes that will go into effect on Thursday, April 1, 2004.

    1. Enhancements to Program Terms and Conditions

    eBay is committed to paying publishers fairly for their hard work. Just as eBay fosters a level playing field for our buyers and sellers, we also aim to provide a level playing field for our publishers. With that in mind, we are making several enhancements to our program terms and conditions to protect the efforts of all eBay publishers.

    You will receive new program terms on April 1, 2004. Most importantly, "forced clicks" will be prohibited within the eBay Affiliate Program. We believe strongly that it is in the best interest of eBay's publishers to require that an end user takes an affirmative action (by clicking on an affiliate link) for an affiliate to be compensated for an Active Registration (ACRU), Bid or Buy-It-Now (BIN) transaction.

    We will also be implementing new terms governing such areas as the use of "eBay" in affiliate domain names, the use of affiliate links on ebay.com URL's and the promotion of your own eBay listings. Additionally, these new terms and conditions will incorporate policies you have already agreed to, such as eBay trademark usage, CJ tracking code usage, and ongoing adherence to the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.

    These terms will be requirements to work within the eBay US Affiliate program, in addition to terms of service outlined in your Commission Junction Publisher Service Agreement. You will be required to review and accept these terms within 7 days (by April 8) of receiving these new terms or you will be dropped from the eBay US program.

    2. Change to Tracking of Active Registrations, Bids and BINs

    To address a tracking inefficiency that resulted in potential double counting of ACRU, Bid, and BIN activity among affiliates and other partners, we implemented a more accurate tracking infrastructure which rolled out with the price increase on February 1, 2004. The final component of this implementation will be launched in our program on April 1, 2004, and will result in cookies from eBay's natural search efforts competing equally with cookies from all other partners and affiliates. Previously, if a user clicked on an eBay natural search link after clicking on an affiliate link, the affiliate still received credit for the ACRU, Bid or BIN transaction. Beginning in April, eBay affiliates may see a decrease in the number of ACRU, Bid and/or BIN transactions reported.

    Our data suggests that the decrease will vary depending on the business models an affiliate deploys, as well as an affiliate's conversion rate of clicks to ACRUs, Bids and BINs. To minimize the impact of this reporting upgrade, we encourage our affiliates to leverage the wealth of best practice documents that we continually update at http://affiliates.ebay.com/best-practices/.

    As always, eBay is dedicated to providing new tools and creative that assist our publishers' effectiveness and innovation. New pop-up links have been loaded into the Advanced Links section of eBay's links in the Commission Junction interface. You can easily access these new links by using the following steps: log in to your Account Manager at www.cj.com, click on Get Links, enter "ebay" into the search box, click on View Links next to the account, and enter "CornPops" into the search box on the View Links page.

    We welcome your suggestions and ideas. Please do not hesitate to contact {REMOVED EMAIL ADDY}if you have specific questions related to these program changes. For technical support involved with the new program terms, please contact Commission Junction Client Services by logging in to your Account Manager at www.cj.com and use the "Ask a Question" feature in the Support tab.

    And stay tuned in the next week for an exciting announcement on a new eBay affiliate contest based on ACRU performance in April and May - grand prizes: two plasma televisions!

    Regards,
    The eBay Affiliate Team

    Scott
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#!t
    Don't tell me that you'll do it... SHOW ME.
    Just because everyone else is drinking it is no reason for me to drink the KOOL-AID.

  3. #3
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    I am unclear if they are saying, their internal search system or their own search paid placements on other sites.

    While either sucks, the first, the idea that someone gets to their site then searches so we lose is insane. And sadly, ebay has been so screwed up lately, I would not put that past them.

    I will give them one and only one point.
    "Beginning in April, eBay affiliates may see a decrease in the number of ACRU, Bid and/or BIN transactions reported. "

    Yeah no f*cking sh*t sherlock.

    Chet

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    better make that KY-Plus (R)(TM)

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Just got their Nastygram.

    And eBay wants its affiliates to be successful? BULLSHOOT!

    I suppose we're supposed to just trust them that after April 1, 50-60% of our traffic is using their search function, right? This is after 25% of all actions have been getting reversed. That doesn't leave much to pick from.

    In my opinion, there is no reason to continue to promote eBay, they are not interested in mutually beneficial relationship.

    Andy

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    eBay and me:

    As a consumer, I like eBay, I will use eBay, I may send people to eBay, I may buy from eBay, I may sell on eBay, I may even place a link to eBay on my site again for free one day but..........

    I will not join eBay as an affiliate again, I dropped my affiliation with eBay this year because I don't need the extra stress needed just to make some nickel's on new commissions, I rather put a free link to eBay on my site as a convenience to my visitors.

    Last year I was getting very piss off every time that I received an eBay Email on my inbox because every time that I was opening their emails, my A-Drive started to spin out of control like when you try to read Drive A with out a Floppy on it, at first I thought it was my computer but, after posting my concern on this board, I get some reply's that said it was a bug on eBay's email and that other people here where having the same Drive A issue so, I just ignored the spinning Drive A.

    When it rain, it pours.

    Since eBay lately has changed to many times the Terms and Conditions and the final commissions and all the BS with the parasites and the AD blockers........I will only say that the eBay affiliate program is not for me, I don't need the extra stress needed just to make some nickel's on new commissions, I will just aim for Dollars anyway, I don't like loose change, they're heavier to carry to the bank.

    Sal.
    ...

  7. #7
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    Their email is clear as mud. What is an eBay natural search effort? They act like we're all supposed to know what that means. They could at least tell us exactly what it is.

    Bombalini

  8. #8
    affiliate emeritus missdonna's Avatar
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    Interesting to see what date this is scheduled to start. What do you think they are calling us?
    Affiliate Marketing - The hardest easy money I ever made.

  9. #9
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    I think this is the beginning of the end for the Ebay affiliate program. This is license for Ebay to arbitrarily not pay commissions and there's not a damned thing anyone can do about it. Think about it: you send a visitor to Ebay for a certain specific auction. They bid/buy/register. Ebay can say "Oh yeah, you sent them there all right, but they left. And then they came back and used the Ebay search to find the item again. Since they used OUR search after you sent them there, you lose." I predict steadily dwindling commissions, allthewhile Ebay claiming nothing is wrong.
    EPN - Cautiously, but paranoically, optimistic.

  10. #10
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    I really think this is the same thing that was first introduced by a then respected company, by a respected AM.

    Of course people used the word respected with both them after they announced it. But I think they were the first I was aware of doing this.

    Ebay just doesn't want to pay if the second click comes from adwords they have etc, which don't get me wrong is crappy. Really crappy. I am just comparing responses.

    Chet

  11. #11
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    I've emailed them and like every other email I've tried to send to a CJ merchant in the last week its failed and been returned

    *AGGGHHHHHH*

    edited:
    : host daddy.cj.com[207.71.241.82] said: 554 Service
    unavailable; [62.241.160.73] blocked using dnsbl.sorbs.net, reason: Spam


    I've contacted my ISp who are sorting out my problem with this - Is there a way of using internal mail to contact people??.

    [This message was edited by mogga on March 25, 2004 at 06:56 AM.]

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Beginning in April, eBay affiliates may see a decrease in the number of ACRU, Bid and/or BIN transactions reported.

    I think that statement pretty much sums it all up.

    Question to eBay: WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME? Why should I promote you when you are doing everything possible to PREVENT me from earning a commission? Can you possibly find anything else to do to worm out of paying for traffic?

    How about requiring that the visitor must place the bid/BIN/ACRU within 10 seconds of arriving at eBay, and only while standing on his/her head?

    Perhaps their bids/BINS/ACRUs are eligible only during darkness.

    Or on Holidays.

    Or whenever you feel like paying affiliates!

    This is a license to steal, in my opinion.

    Andy

  13. #13
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    Good call Andy.

    I just fired this off in response to the Ebay mail @ CJ:

    quote:
    I think the clause below may be the final straw that causes me to drop Ebay's affiliate program. I tolerated the rollout of your new reporting system last summer that caused a 35% drop on commissions, despite your claims otherwise. Then came the recent spate of reversals (despite your claims that the aforementioned "New Reporting System" would eliminate the need for reversals). Now this. I send *highly* focused traffic to Ebay, not banner ads, but item-specific links (see example in the main body of the page at http://******.com/******).

    What you are basically saying, if I understand your new vague terms correctly, is that if I send a visitor to Ebay in a search for "widget", and they then do a search for "brown widget" and then come back to "widget" and buy one, or buy a "brown widget", I don't get a commission because in the interim they have used Ebay's built-in search capabilities. THIS DESPITE THE FACT THAT EBAY WOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN A SALE IF I HAD NOT SENT THEM THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Please give me one good reason why I should continue to promote Ebay and send traffic there, when all you do is attempt to find new ways to avoid paying commissions that are rightfully due??

    Disgustedly,

    -Dan

    --- Original Message Separator ---

    Beginning in April, eBay affiliates may see a decrease in the number of ACRU, Bid and/or BIN transactions reported.
    EPN - Cautiously, but paranoically, optimistic.

  14. #14
    Chick with Brains Tracy's Avatar
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    quote:
    ...and will result in cookies from eBay's natural search efforts competing equally with cookies from all other partners and affiliates. Previously, if a user clicked on an eBay natural search link after clicking on an affiliate link, the affiliate still received credit for the ACRU, Bid or BIN transaction.


    Though worded vaguely, I think eBay is referring to the fact that if somebody clicks on your link on Monday and drops a cookie, and then on Thursday is doing a search and clicks on one of eBay's own advertising efforts, that the eBay cookie is going to overwrite the affiliate cookie. I do not think that they mean that once the person arrives at eBay and starts searching, you won't get the nickel if they bid on an item other than the one they initially clicked on.

    I've said it before ... the best way to promote eBay is through the Tool Kit and highly targeted items.
    Those of us who promote eBay the way Danimal described with targeted, specific items really shouldn't worry. I download my reports into Excel

    http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...185#5826057185

    and can see a trend of people bookmarking a page, and coming back to my site several times a month, going down the list of items and bidding on several of them. I haven't seen a change to those habits, and I continue to add pages of highly targeted items so that my base of people who bookmark those pages will increase. I continue to see an increase in commissions from eBay.

    I think the only people who need to be concerned about these new policies are those who were forcing clicks and trying to cheat the system in the first place. Getting rid of that scum will only benefit individual associates like us because they will no longer be overwriting our hard earned cookies.

  15. #15
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    IMO Ebay's policy changes sound strikingly familiar to Tiger Direct. And you know how well that went. Anyone else see the similarity?

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    You can thank both eBay's AM and the the BF/CJ network for this one as they shove million dollar BHO dupers into the ebay commission pool. Now the only way the greed drive YyeBall Ad Whore eBay can see robbing peter to pay paul is to whack the normal affiliate sheeple.

    I wish I could target just certain merchants with my Cookie planting Nuke bomb, but that's not possible. Seems like time is getting ripe to make sure every single purchase made online by an affiliate enabled network merchant is cookied. The networks and the pimps sure couldn't ignor the merchnat irate phone calls then when they see the financial impact....

    The blur of network legal paperwork, banning all affiliate commissionable activity without a physical click, will boggle the mind. Me and Charlie should time this with launching a Safe Haven affiliate network immune to all the existing cookie planting/swapping & diversion tricks while excluding the cookie nuke bombers. Hell I'll be getting more gifts and bribes to slide the special interest creeps past the filters then a Presidental candidate.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Nature Boy:
    Grease em up boys and girls. It looks like eBay is ready to us again.



    You can always pull up your pants & say "I can't take it no more, man!".

  18. #18
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    BradleyB, that is what i was hinting at, but didn't feel like beating up Andy over it as I don't believe he was the driving force for it.

    Of course it is funny to see the differences between reaction now and then with some people, especially those with parrots. Good stuff.

    Chet

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador ktmkiddy's Avatar
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    quick...hide my Macaw

    Mike.....he must mean you


    Malc & Oscar !!
    Adverts

  20. #20
    I like traffic lights
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    >Their email is clear as mud. What is an eBay
    >natural search effort?

    From what I understand, what they mean here is any eBay page that is actually indexed at Google.

    So if someone goes to eBay via your efforts, but doesn't bid and (s)he is searching google later and clicks on a result that is an eBay URL, your cookie will be replaced by an internal eBay cookie.

    I think this is pretty fair.

    As far as eBay paid placements at Google and other locations, the cookie from that already replaces your one.

  21. #21
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    if a "natural search page" replaces my cookie when they go from a SE then how do I know they don't have the same cookie busting effect within the site.

    A cookie is for the duration unless over written fairly by another affiliate cookie - we are talking affiliate cookies? If ebay's own cookie trumps our cookie then our cookie is a sesson length only.

  22. #22
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    From what I understand, what they mean here is any eBay page that is actually indexed at Google. ... I think this is pretty fair.

    I don't think this is fair. Why have a 30 day cookie when the only way you can get a cookied commission is when someone exactly types in or bookmarks the URL of the site? As it stands now, most ISPs that have eBay links for convenience on their portals wind up stripping the cookie away from you too (MSN, AOL).

    eBay is an unusual example here because they are pretty well known, but they are also linked pretty heavily on all the major portals.

    Google is the de facto search engine of the internet, and if a newbie types in "online auctions" because they don't remember eBay but were turned on to eBay because of a link on my site, why shouldn't I get a commission. In fact, take a step back here; why shouldn't Google get the commission? It sounds like eBay is just going to pay no one. Yeah, that's fair.

    This is a dangerous precedent. Denying commission when someone hits the site via an unpaid Google search has the potential to negate the whole concept of durable affiliate cookies, and could make every commission be a "buy it immediately or no commission" transaction.

    Ralph

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Hi, Ralph! I wondered how long it would take you to show up for this one.

    Has anyone heard back from the horse itself exactly what a "natural search link" is? If it's the link at the top of each eBay page, I'm outta here! And why are they telling us up front that this change will result in fewer commissions? Who will be getting them? Certainly the number of cookies set isn't going to drop, but it would appear the overwriting is going to increase. Is that the way an honest, fair program would work?

    If eBay is planning on setting cookies on its own site, all the while allowing parasites to overwrite whenever the h3ll they want to, it really won't be worth the bandwidth to promote eBay.

    Andy

  24. #24
    I like traffic lights
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    >Has anyone heard back from the horse itself
    >exactly what a "natural search link" is? If
    >it's the link at the top of each eBay page,
    >I'm outta here!

    Did you not read my post?

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    Drewbert wrote: Did you not read my post?
    Do you mean this one:
    quote:
    From what I understand, what they mean here is any eBay page that is actually indexed at Google.

    So if someone goes to eBay via your efforts, but doesn't bid and (s)he is searching google later and clicks on a result that is an eBay URL, your cookie will be replaced by an internal eBay cookie.

    I think this is pretty fair.

    As far as eBay paid placements at Google and other locations, the cookie from that already replaces your one.
    If so, that sounds like your opinion to me. I would like to hear what eBay's official response is. If your information did indeed come from eBay, it isn't obvious from reading your post.

    Andy

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