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  1. #1
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    I have been reading many posts and this is quite shocking to me. Personally, I have suspected this for awhile before I found this forum.

    My question is why does cj allow it and what is the benifit to cj? What would stop a merchant from doing it every day for a couple of hours. I believe it is happening

  2. #2
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    I'm starting to wonder this too.

  3. #3
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    They don't.

  4. #4
    Member blizz93cw's Avatar
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    I thought CJ worked on a commission basis, without tracked sales they get no commission. Isn't that the way they profit?

  5. #5
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    "I thought CJ worked on a commission basis, without tracked sales they get no commission. Isn't that the way they profit?"

    Yes I know, so why do they allow this to go on??

  6. #6
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    infoseeker

    Ask yourself this question. Why does CJ or any other cookie based tracking Affiliate Network allow Affiliates the ability to disable tracking at will?
    --
    Blaine

  7. #7
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    They make it up in pure volume of advertisers.

    CJ's is the network that tries to appeal to the largest number of advertisers. They aren't real picky. Linkshare might have the bigger names, and anouther network might be able to demand more cash upfront.

    But CJ makes it cheap to get in, and if they tend to look the other way sometimes, well that just sweetens the deal for the merchants.

    And as long as they do consolidated payments, most affiliates look the other way too.

    So in other words, stop complaining so much. CJ ain't gonna change. And you aren't going to require them to.

  8. #8
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    This is just a ridiculous line of discussion, and I'm surprised at how frequently it comes up here. Next thing you know, people will be saying that CJ has a fleet of black helicopters.

    CJ does NOT allow merchants to just disable tracking.

    As with ANY network, unscrupulous merchants could remove the tracking code from their confirmation pages with relative ease. CJ has a compliance team that regularly checks both merchants and affiliates for compliance. I'm sure it's a simple matter for them to monitor merchants to make sure they don't remove the tracking. (Todd: If you don't currently do this automatically, email me. I can tell you how to do it quickly and easily.)

    As Blizz pointed out, CJ doesn't get paid if affiliates don't get paid. That's not entirely true, as CJ has monthly minimums that merchants get charged, but most of their merchants are over that minimum. In any case, it's in CJ's best interest to keep their affiliates happy, and merchants who don't track have the opposite effect.

    Of all of the networks, CJ probably makes it the easiest for affiliates to monitor their merchants. With real-time reporting (for most merchants) and historical EPC graphs, you have all the tools you need to pick good merchants.
    Michael Coley
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  9. #9
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    "CJ does NOT allow merchants to just disable tracking."

    If that is true I am glad to hear it, but from what I have read over and over here they have the ability to do so. So I was wondering what the true story is??

  10. #10
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    quote:
    CJ has a compliance team that regularly checks both merchants and affiliates for compliance.
    I agree Mr.Coley my only problem with it is, its probably the same friggin team that finds the parasites are in compliance. In other words a big bunch of brown nosers.
    quote:
    In any case, it's in CJ's best interest to keep their affiliates happy, and merchants who don't track have the opposite effect
    Bullshoot!!!, it is in their best interests to keep their merchants happy, lets be bloody honest and truthful about it.
    quote:
    Of all of the networks, CJ probably makes it the easiest for affiliates to monitor their merchants. With real-time reporting (for most merchants) and historical EPC graphs, you have all the tools you need to pick good merchants.
    If only they would tell us who is in the parasites pockets then I would agree.

    No more waffle we just want the truth not just what sounds nice.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by infoseeker:
    "CJ does NOT allow merchants to just disable tracking."

    If that is true I am glad to hear it, but from what I have read over and over here they have the ability to do so. So I was wondering what the true story is??


    Infoseeker - I don't know this for a fact but I think CJ's sales reports are dependent on the merchant sending a 1x1 pixel image to CJ to confirm the sale. That is something the merchant can turn on and off. It's not something CJ can control, and they don't allow it, it's something the merchants control. Not stated as fact, just my understanding. If I'm wrong someone please point it out.

  12. #12
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    Wonder why they took away the reversals data for merchants and why can't we see their conversion ratios?

    Was that a black helicopter I just saw? It did kinda look like the pilot had a green patch on his sleeve with either the letters OJ or CJ on it, I couldn't tell for sure.

    All I know for sure is my revenue just ain't what it used to be and the replacement weeding process has begun!

  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    It appears that merchants have the ability to turn off the tracking at will. In fact, it is according to this thread, easy for them to do. Do you honestly believe that some don't do it for a few peak hours here and there especially during the holidays and peak times?

    So, they turn it off for a while and then turn it back on. What are the chances they will get caught? Hummm....

    And, if they do get caught, what happens. They say "oppsie" and are careful for a little while.

    If a network has a whole bunch of merchants who think it is fine and dandy to set a bunch of parasites loose on you, why would they have any qualms about stealing your commissions this way, too?

    CJ needs to ensure that if the tracking is not working, the merchant cannot get a sale.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    We spoke about this months ago and it was never resolved,
    Some merchants have been known to get it wrong when setting it up resulting in loss of sales for aff's.
    We also have the shady merchant syndrome where tracking seems to turn off and on like a tap.

    If cj is our trusted third party why isn't the tracking control and implementation in their hands and not left to the merchants.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Vrindavan's Avatar
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    I believe the merchant can disable tracking.

  16. #16
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    It sure is a good thing we aren't merchants since we know how to do all the dirty tricks.

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Don't worry, they all know them, too.

    They either have integrity or they don't.

    I do wish that every time a merchant is found not tracking, whether an oppsie or not, that it would be posted here.

    Do you want to work with a fool or a thief? It doesn't matter WHY the tracking did not work, the loss is the same.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  18. #18
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    quote:
    I do wish that every time a merchant is found not tracking, whether an oppsie or not, that it would be posted here.


    I second that!

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Mr Coley. What if when a merchant is caught,posted here and we all remove that merchant would the message not get out to another merchants? It might be the only way to stop this.

  20. #20
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    CJ does not allow advertisers to disable tracking. We monitor for tracking compliance.

    Regardless of the tracking technology/solution or network, any advertiser can theoretically disable tracking.

    The vast majority of advertisers are honest and never have tracking issues. As with anything, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. If anyone has concerns regarding tracking, use AAQ and we will investigate your issues.

    One last point, tracking issues are rarely malicious acts by advertisers, usually they are honenst mistakes (i.e. human error). Just because an advertiser has a tracking issues, you shouldn't think they were trying to scam their publishers or the network. I guess what I am saying is don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  21. #21
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    Hi Todd,
    Thank you for your answer however your answer does not make me feel any better about the situation. I am surprised to hear though, that there is not some form of technology that would prevent this from happening??

  22. #22
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    I am surprised to hear though, that there is not some form of technology that would prevent this from happening??
    You must realize that tracking is integrated on the advertisers' servers - something only they have access to and control of. As long as they leave everything the way we integrated it during implimentation, it will work perfectly.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

    Give me a minute before I post again

  23. #23
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    quote:
    Todd Crawford wrote:

    Just because an advertiser has a tracking issues, you shouldn't think they were trying to scam their publishers or the network.


    Along the same suspicions, might the scam merchant temporarily make tracking work during a CJ fix (update)?

    We are still trying to figure out why tracking for non-converting merchants suddenly and temporarily comes alive during a CJ update ???

    The ultimate responsibility regarding tracking issues would fall on the hired third party (Commission Junction). That is their duty to insure proper tracking. It is their technology.

  24. #24
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    Well, my feeling is that CJ (and a few other networks) are in it for the money (like duh right?) and really could give a damn on who is getting screwed as long as their own bottom line has them contented.

    It shows with issues like parasites, merchants that have no money to pay but affiliates not advised, tracking issues, spy ware interference etc etc etc....

    Forums such as this will hopefully continue to keep the affiliates interests above all and not let up on forcing fairness.

    I always found Happypoon’s posts, thinking and ideas to make a lot of sense as he seems to present his views as I would if I had more understanding as well as his sense of numbers making a difference, which is why the following quote by him can sum up my feelings on why its so slow to force change for fairness.


    “Why - because affiliates are likely the most un-organized group of people on the planet and networks are so used to ignoring thier requests without fear of prosecution it's commonplace for them to screw us over! Whats not funny is they do it and try to put the twist on it at the same time saying they are being fair and protecting our privacy! Give me a friging break, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday!”

    Anyway, how long before something is actually done concerning certain issues that have been discussed for a loooooong time without much (if anything) being done about it when it concerns CJ.


    Just venting a bit, the way I see it...no need to get upset by it.

  25. #25
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Dirk:
    Well, my feeling is that CJ (and a few other networks) are in it for the money (like duh right?) and really could give a damn on who is getting screwed as long as their own bottom line has them contented.
    But that's the whole arguement. They earn the majority of their money from affiliate fees. When a merchant pays an affiliate $1, they pay CJ $0.30. If a merchant isn't tracking correctly, CJ doesn't get paid. (They do get a monthly minimum, but most merchants generate enough commissions that the monthly minimum doesn't apply.)
    Michael Coley
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    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

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