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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Members,

    As Jimbo2002 said ...

    quote:
    People, don't sit back and be happy just because "I got a check".


    Haiko

    [ I will open this thread tomorrow ]

    [ edited to open ]

    [ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Lex,

    Tracking, Tracking, Tracking needs to follow Sell, Sell, Sell!

    How are we supposed to "trust" the Trusted Third Party when it has NO CLUE that a server was down for [3]months ?!?!?!?!

    Haiko

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Lex,

    If I added up all the money we affiliates have wasted because you can't track(with $40,000,000.00 in VC, monthly fees and overides :eek: ) I bet you that would add up to a whole bunch of bucks that YOU have LOST not only for us but for CJ also! I won't begin to extrapolate! but I'm sure it is more than

    Haiko
    PS Happy Thanks for giving us the Vaseline!

    [ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  4. #4
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    Lex,

    I took a look at IDTs chargeback stats in early november. Two weeks ago their July chargebacks were 27%, now July is showing about 48%. How did that happen?

    Update: Now IDT is back to the original chargeback stats again, but I saved the graph if anyones interested.

    On my own site sales are currently only recorded when the CTR is 1.00 or greater, or where the merchant batches transactions. It seems like some impressions only track once a sale has been recorded.

    f

    [ 11-21-2001: Message edited by: francis ]

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
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    The worst part is that CJ had absolutely no idea about this until I sent them an email on 2 November which was
    quote:
    One Question:

    Are the links for IDT global call tracking properly?
    There have been no global call transactions on the CJ network for some time.
    IDT long distance is showing correct 7day & 3month epc figures, but the IDT global call has only 3month epc figures (which are fairly high for some links), but all 7day epc (they have been this way for a few weeks) are at zero $.

    SO CJ did not have a clue about this until I notified them
    The merchant's response from basically the same email was "yeah, we thought so"

    After receiving some half-assed responses and the promise of official notification (still not received), I got Haiko onto the case.

    What he told me occurred in the phone calls should send shivers down the spine of any real affiliate marketer.

    The "we should check our own links" means that in this case I would have had to enter in my credit card details to see where the page will take me.
    try it. go to http://www.global-call.net/order.htm and see how far you get without the card details.
    Haiko entered his, and you can see the results here http://www.abestweb.com/globalcallimage.jpg

    With no notification from the merchant, and CJ's total lack of ability to detect this type of fraud we just kept sending the traffic. I'm one of the lucky ones who wasn't on the PPC.
    I notice bids are still at $0.69 for "idt global call".... still an uninformed affiliate.

  6. #6
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    either they didn't detect it....or.....turned a blind eye on it, either way, they look like total fuc* ups or theifs.

    certaintly, all is not well - whichever the reason.

  7. #7
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    wow, what i just read reminded me of the incredible theory that we never sent men to the moon

    i'm not ready to sign any petition because i cant understand why people would bid for 3 months for a merchant that wasn't tracking in all that time

  8. #8
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    So what is the bottom line here?

    CJ has no clue when their merchants/advertisers are screwing them and us?

    What is CJ's process to insure transactions are tracking properly from all of the merchants on an ongoing basis?

  9. #9
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    and, with respect haiko, i think you should have opened this issue for debate before turning it into what seems a ranting petition as i am sure others have many questions, i know that i have several questions and regard this as far from a closed issue but am too tired at this time

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    CK,

    quote:
    So what is the bottom line here?
    CJ has no clue when their merchants/advertisers are screwing them and us?


    CORRECT!

    ------------
    Austin,

    quote:
    i think you should have opened this issue for debate before turning it into what seems a ranting petition as i am sure others have many questions


    Bottom Line .... CJ had NO IDEA ... so what is to say they know anything besides the %s that they report!

    Haiko

  11. #11
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    Haiko is saving us money... I mean, CJ tracking is all over the stop. Today things are back to normal for me with over $50+ transactions - but over the past week I *know* things have been acting really strangely.....

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Until you guys actually setup a e-commerce client site interfaced to a network like CJ you'll not understand how the last step works.( recording/reporting the net sale amt.) All the impressions clicks data is directly feed through the CJ network ..not batched from their ASP software. If it's down or the data gets corrupted in transit or the cookie blocked ..activity traffic stats don't update. The small sniplet of code that is supposed to be injected ( as in cut&paste)into the final checkout page determines what gets reported as to sales amount. Some of my CJ clients used the www.miva.com or www.americart.com e-commerce catalog/cart programs. These had a simple API plugin where I just checked a "affiliate enabled" box and filled in the assigned merchant ID# under the appropriate network field. Like a light switch I or the site owner could turn off tracking the sales aprt by unchecking the box.

    If the affiliate manager decides or is dictated to turn off the sales reporting as he leaves today and turns it back on Monday after the busiest shopping days of Y2001 ..CJ won't know nor would any affiliate. A smarter way is to periodically turn it on over the weekend so some sales trickle through...for someone like PcMall or Landsend this could be millions in sales not recorded. Of course these trusted merchants wouldn't do something like this.

    Only thing that would work is to monitor sales through a secret shopper and document the legit purchase...publish the results.. and sell the purchased items on eBay and start over.

  13. #13
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    ecomcity


    quote:
    These had a simple API plugin where I just checked a "affiliate enabled" box and filled in the assigned merchant ID# under the appropriate network field. Like a light switch I or the site owner could turn off tracking the sales aprt by unchecking the box.
    If the affiliate manager decides or is dictated to turn off the sales reporting as he leaves today and turns it back on Monday after the busiest shopping days of Y2001 ..CJ won't know nor would any affiliate.



    Thanks for the info, I've always wondered how merchants could "shut off" sales as some on the boards have stated merchants could.

    and
    quote:
    A smarter way is to periodically turn it on over the weekend so some sales trickle through...for someone like PcMall or Landsend this could be millions in sales not recorded. Of course these trusted merchants wouldn't do something like this.



    Yeah, and for the trickle they let by -they can always reverse 'em later for bad credit card or something - who's checking??

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    MsMary,

    quote:
    who's checking


    MERCHANT WATCH will be!

    I guarantee it!

    Haiko

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    All,

    Got off the phone with CJ ...

    Things will be moving forward ... we are getting there!

    Haiko

  16. #16
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    quote:
    If the affiliate manager decides or is dictated to turn off the sales reporting as he leaves today and turns it back on Monday after the busiest shopping days of Y2001 ..CJ won't know nor would any affiliate.


    It seems to me besides being immoral, that doing this would be illegal (ie fraud). Is there a good way to catch these crooks and start having them thrown in jail? Once a few merchants get thrown in jail, the word would get out and they might be less likely of committing fraud if they thought there would be a good chance that they are going to be rooming with "Bubba".

    Can we get a list together of merchants we suspect are committing fraud and then get a person assigned to our "investigation" from The FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center?

    Their website is at: http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

    We may even be able to get the FBI to play secret shopper with us.

  17. #17
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    CK,

    What ........ are you blind?

    Haiko

  18. #18
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    Haiko-
    Not sure what I missed.
    Are you talking about MerchantWatch?

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    CK,

    quote:
    Haiko-
    Not sure what I missed.
    Are you talking about MerchantWatch?


    YES

    Haiko

  20. #20
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    Haiko,

    My comments/questions/suggestions above apply to MerchantWatch. If you (MerchantWatch) can get the FBI in on the frontend, we may be able to get some merchants thrown in jail quicker. If you can get someone "assigned" to further investigate any complaints that MW makes, it can speed things up.

    I have a site that the FBI's Secret Service watches (not by my choice, though).

    There may even be some Federal Funding available for a site like MerchantWatch.
    (you may be able to sell some watches of the domain name too)

    When do anticipate having MW up in beta form atleast? I have a number of suggestions/ideas for it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  21. #21
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    Gee....and I've been saying that for months, last march I got into a **ssing match with Capital One over christmas banners still being served up in march. After that our revenue with cj dried up....imagine that even though all traffic parameters have increased. OpenForum,lol, what a bunch of bs. Our site is still rated at around 85% and we've generated....are you ready?......$0.46....thats right ladies and gentlemen, a whopping $0.46 revenue stream for the month of Nov. Thank goodness all our eggs are'nt in the cj basket. WAIT...Is that a giant sucking sound I hear swirling out of Santa Barbera...could be. Sorry to ramble on but Mark Twain said it best. "There are three types of lies, 1)lies 2)Damn Lies and 3) Statistics" Just remember, statistics don't lie, statisticians do! Happy Thanksgiving Everyone [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  22. #22
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    The main point here (in my opinion) is CJ's total disregard for affiliates.

    This was brought to their attention nearly three weeks ago after I noticed the anomaly is the EPC for the links for the different products. I waited through two re-calculations of the 7day EPC's to make sure that I was correct in thinking that globalcall was not tracking.

    I was told on 11/9 from fraud@cj that they would be sending out an email explaining the situation. That was the last I heard of them.

    Apparently merchants are given 7 days to fixed problem links.. The 7 days expired today (wed, 21st)..that was what the wait was for.
    IDT affiliates still have not been told by CJ or IDT that global call is not (and has not since September) tracking, and the links have not been removed/fixed.

    Our "trusted 3rd party" is rapidly becoming very untrustworthy.

  23. #23
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    I believe it is CJs policy to wait and only remove merchants when their three month epc hits zero. In other words, that is how the Fraud Busters team figures out something might be wrong - this is the method developed by these experts.

    At least that is my experience from watching the epcs and the merchant removal notices.

    Wingspan bank, for example was acquired by BankOne earlier this year. There was no way anyone could create a Wingspan Bank acct - their website directed people to BankOne. Yet they remained a CJ merchant for three months.

    I don't know exactly what MerchantWatch is going to do, but I'm looking forward to it.

    I also believe that we will eventually see commercial applications coming out that will enable affiliates to automatically check for fraud. There is just too much money involved for entrepreneurs to ignore this market since places like CJ are apparently lacking either the talent or the will to do this.

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    CK,

    quote:
    My comments/questions/suggestions above apply to MerchantWatch. If you (MerchantWatch) can get the FBI in on the frontend, we may be able to get some merchants thrown in jail quicker. If you can get someone "assigned" to further investigate any complaints that MW makes, it can speed things up.


    I HAVE a very good contact at the FBI who handles online crimes and he is very diligent in catching criminals!

    Re: Funding ... nope ... that is a serious unreality!

    Re: idea/suggestions Email Me or PM me

    Re: Time frame about two weeks.

    Haiko

  25. #25
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    @Haiko
    quote:
    Got off the phone with CJ ...

    Things will be moving forward ... we are getting there!

    Mmmmmmm, OK!?!?! :confused:
    When is this going to happen!?!? :confused:

    It seems that my account is limited to 3 (THREE) hits per day. And do I have to tell you that my log files have NOTHING in common with CJ tracking.

    GOD, I'M MAD!!!!

    Sales!?!?! What does that word mean!?!?

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