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  1. #1
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    For all those who have talked of spyware/scumware merchants stealing commissions a recent investigation into the matter may have confirmed such practices.

    You can read the full article here:
    http://www.mediapost.com/dtls_dsp_ne...?newsId=259401

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador CDC's Avatar
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    Thanks Jeremy.


    quote:
    The network providers charge for inclusion in the network, and also take a cut from the commissions paid to affiliates by their merchant partners.


    The networks get a cut of the loot, that is why they are unwilling to do anything about this.

    It's up to the merchants to put a stop to this but affiliates can make them aware of the situation…


    $0.02

    CDC
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do...

  3. #3
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    Yep,
    the ball starts rolling!.
    Quote:
    'Sawicki notes that LinkShare has embraced 180Solutions' deployment of double and hidden pop-ups, while Commission Junction "prefers a different approach." In fact, it has worked out a deal with LinkShare where the commissions it receives from double and hidden pop-ups only go to 180Solutions advertisers and LinkShare.


    Pete

  4. #4
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Linda - 5starAffiliatePrograms's Avatar
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    Interesting that mediaPost reports on this story since they advertise Gator constantly and their logo even looks like Gator.

    Here is a link to Ben's actual study.

    http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/
    This is the article I use when I have to convince a merchant to drop 180 because it's very in-depth. Mrs. B helped with the research. Thanks B!

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    "Not only is 180Solutions taking money out of the merchant's pocket, but affiliates' as well," noted Stein. "I assume [Commission Junction and LinkShare] will cut 180solutions out of their networks," he said, adding, "I'd be surprised if they allow this to continue, because the network is way more important than any individual member-the core part of it is trust."
    Boy, he sure hasn't been around this industry long, has he?
    quote:
    In response to Edelman's accusation that 180Solutions is taking money away from merchants and affiliates, 180Solutions founder and CEO Kevin Smith said, "We hope [your readers] will take into consideration the negative effect these rumors could have on our business."
    One might hope the positive effect of these "rumors" is that they are marched barefoot to the north pole and forced to play kick ball with the polar bears until they learn to sing, "Who's Sorry Now" soprano while standing on their heads.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    A good article! It will be interesting to see what the outcome is. My guess is they will change things in the 30 day grace period only to come up with something else.

    Ben, Great Job BTW
    The Answer to the New York Tax Law - Repeal, REPEAL, REPEAL -

    Camping Gear and Equipment

  7. #7
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    quote:
    However, 180Solutions' Sawicki acknowledges that both LinkShare and Commission Junction are aware of its deployment of double and hidden pop-ps through 180Solutions' software, a practice that has been going on for 4-6 months.


    So much for trusted third parties with these networks.

  8. #8
    Full Member Gjenvick-Gjønvik's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I don't think CJ or LinkShare are going to actively pursue the matter. It would appear that 180Solutions is one of their major affiliates where they probably derive a significant amount of income from. For the networks, deactivating a major player without knowing if the other [legetimate] affiliates could make up the difference might be the caveat that prevents either network from making a decision. As long as the legal issues are not aggressively pursued by outside parties, there seems little chance of anything signficant becoming from the article/study.

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Besides, if they deactivated them, they wouldn't get paid for all the transactions that the merchant generates on their own, which was never refered by any affiliate action of any kind.

    They are all just a bunch of theives.

    Any honest merchant should get out of there and open a forum here, instead. Either they should go to SAS or open their own program. Smaller merchants should go to SAS.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Re the article:

    quote:
    In response to Edelman's accusation that 180Solutions is taking money away from merchants and affiliates, 180Solutions founder and CEO Keith Smith said, "We hope [your readers] will take into consideration the negative effect these rumors could have on our business."


    I was waiting for them to take the ouch your hurting my business, I might have to sue you route!

    What an donkeyhole! How many of these Bungholes have used the "tsk, tsk, I might have to sue your donkey to high hell" line to intimidate and silence?

    ====================

    Re the investigating and accepting "Trusted" third parties mentioned: - many, many merchants are looking at alternatives
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    It's time for the major networks to step forward and let us know they really are the trusted third party. I for one would like to hear what they plan to do about this (always the optimist, I know).
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  12. #12
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    The genius of defeating the COC.

    180 does not intercept and overwrite an affiliates cookie. They just write their own cookie right after yours. Kinda like someone on "Price Is Right" bidding $1 more than you.

    So the CoC is protected! All is good! Long live the CoC.

    Chet

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Not a novel idea for a BHO to incorporate the poorman's BHO tactic...blind cookie stuffing.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  14. #14
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Ron if it were not so frigging serious I would cry.

    I think they, especially Linkshare and CJ, have already proved they have no inclination whatsoever to even attempt to give us a level playing field and they are fully prepared to back the parasites to the hilt and to hell with the smaller affiliates.

    Thats my opinion and I doubt I will be proved wrong anytime soon
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    One of the things that does come about in a lawsuit is discovery. Both sides have to answer questions and provide documents to the other side. I'm not sure that any of these companies want to open themselves up that way, I'd bet they have too many secrets to hide.

    Andy

  16. #16
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Jeremy thanks for posting the link and I am glad to see the article.

    But I just can't resist:

    quote:
    Looks Like SpyWare on CJ May BE Confirmed!




    More like "HAS BEEN" and many YEARS ago. Absolutely no offense meant whatsoever to you Jeremy, mediapost, or Ben.

    But seriously, a fact however that should not be lost in the overall scheme of things.

    I have ohhhhh soooo much to say on this some and comments in that article it will have to wait until later this evening when I have the time to type the post.

  17. #17
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    Ms. B,

    I couldn't resist the sarcasm of the title of my post. Thought it would get more people to click on it ;-)

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Gordo said: "I think they, especially Linkshare and CJ, have already proved they have no inclination whatsoever to even attempt to give us a level playing field and they are fully prepared to back the parasites to the hilt and to hell with the smaller affiliates."

    Check the way back machine at ABW and you'll see where I called the networks on secretly incubating, automating, and Beta testing the domainless BHO incenters soon after the .com bombs hit. Rather then do anything more then adding some surface reports and lip service to transparancy cries to regain affiliate TRUST, they set about to relieve themselves from the whining domain bound affiliates limited to there web site traffic. The Duper e-mail spammers and list brokers were taking it in the shorts, while the info peddlers were facing public out cries for a Do-Not-Call list.

    The major BHO's are automated through the networks, with the 3rd party IAB/DMA Affiliate Management firms having inside BHO recruiters at the Network. Launch a new untested BHO and your on auto-approval to 500 merchants from AM's who lurk but never post at ABW.

    Your right on Gordo. The networks want to progress beyond the domain bound affiliates as their auditron AdWhore POS (point of sale) attack dogs buy the network management's next new cars and boats.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  19. #19
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    Thank you very much Jeremy for clearing up my confusion about tracking. I always thought of tracking to mean tracking my cookie in order to pay me a commission. What it seems to really mean is tracking down my cookie with intent to smash, obliterate and anilate my cookie and hijack my commission.

    When they say tracking in not affected, I now see why, it was never worth much to start with. Paper is not worth any more than words, hot air, smoke and mirrors to the best of the parasites, its only enforced when nailing the small fry!

    Wonder when the merchants are going to realize that they are being stolen from by means of fictious affiliate commisions? Their boasting of the top affiliate earnings for the month may turn into charges being filed for fraud real soon!

    BTW, is Todd still on vacation?
    Mash Your Motor!

  20. #20
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    quote:
    Originally posted by RoadKill:

    BTW, is Todd still on vacation?


    Whether he is or not, I did see him on the board before.

  21. #21
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    quote:
    I couldn't resist the sarcasm of the title of my post. Thought it would get more people to click on it ;-)


    It gave me a good laugh. Thanks!

  22. #22
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    It is not a good idea for cj.com to take the money from 1800 solutions "sales". If I were a merchant targeted by 180solutions.com I would sue cj.com for giving me back the money 180solutions.com stole without any affiliate action.

    carneol

  23. #23
    Sgt. Joe Friday frank3iii's Avatar
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    Haiko hinted at it above, but I believe you will see some fairly major merchants bailing out of CJ real soon.

    RoadKill asked "BTW, is Todd still on vacation?"

    Even if he is reading these posts, he has long since learned not to stick his foot in quicksand.

    As far as 180 sueing someone, I don't think Mr. Edelman would be worried at all. Harvard Law School has a powerful sound to it. All of Ben's ducks are lined up, facts, figures, dates, all of it.

    I'd kinda like to be a fly on the wall of the boardrooms of 180, CJ, and Linksnare. Might be some juicy things said.

    Frank
    "Just the facts, Ma'am." Sgt. Joe Friday, Dragnet

  24. #24
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    quote:
    Sawicki notes that LinkShare has embraced 180Solutions' deployment of double and hidden pop-ups, while Commission Junction "prefers a different approach." In fact, it has worked out a deal with LinkShare where the commissions it receives from double and hidden pop-ups only go to 180solutions advertisers and LinkShare.




    Now isn't that special

    Can you say kickback? I knew they could.
    Ebudae


  25. #25
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Now have I or have I not been saying KICKBACK for a long time now? I knew the B's were at it I just could not prove it, but common sense tells you nobody would do what they are doing for people like that for nothing.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

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