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  1. #1
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    let's take a break from bashing the networks for allowing the parasites to roam freely.

    how about a script that we can put on our own sites to stop the pop-ups while the surfer is on our sites? had this been discussed before?

    if we can have a standard, wherein affiliates can get their own commish on their sites, and the parasites can get the rest, then maybe we can exist together happily.

    just like the robots protocol. we control what's on our site, and the SE control anything that's not specified.

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    waytogo,

    There is ... checkout http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/ the script is here but it doesn't identify the major parasites

    In about a week, the ParasiteWare™ site will have a scanner that within 30 seconds identifies all of them - more to come on this and how it works with your sites next week.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
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    The pop-ups occur as a result of actions & conditions on the visitor's browser. Haven't yet heard of any server-side application that will prevent a pop-up on someone elses browser. It would be nice, though.

    Just for info, a robots.txt file controls absolutely nothing. It is no more than an electronic "Keep Out" sign that spiders can chose to honor or not.

    As for me, I'll not exist happily together with any parasites. May they rot in Hell.

    Wayne

  4. #4
    http and a telephoto
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    In about a week, the ParasiteWare™ site will have a scanner that within 30 seconds identifies all of them - more to come on this and how it works with your sites next week.

    This sounds like something interesting! I'll be keeping an eye out for an announcement about this!
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Attached is a partial sceenshot of the scanner ... this is gonna be good!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  6. #6
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Haiko:
    In about a week, the ParasiteWare™ site will have a scanner that within 30 seconds identifies all of them - more to come on this and how it works with your sites next week.


    I might be missing something but, what do knowing how it works with our sites will help to stop the pop-ups or any other theft while the surfer is on our sites?

    If I understand it correctly, one of the problems we're having it's because our visitors have that crap on their site and not on our site.


    Sal.

  7. #7
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sal,

    That crap on their machine, (not their site).

    I'll post more next week, I just wanted to make mention of it and post a screenshot of the scanner so that people don't go ... oh vaporware. I'm excited about this and think many will be also, but it has to wait for next week, sorry.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Sal,

    Visitors have these apps on their computers. It has nothing to do with our site, other than a keyword in the URL can trigger one of the apps.

    I'd say most likely we'd refer our visitors to Parasiteware.com to do the scan, so they know what they have on their computer, and then they can follow appropriate instructions to remove it.

    [Haiko and I were posting at the same time...]

    Andy

  9. #9
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Ok, ok I meant That crap on their machine, (not their site) , I forget to re-read before I posted, my fault.

    quote:

    I'd say most likely we'd refer our visitors to Parasiteware.com to do the scan, so they know what they have on their computer, and then they can follow appropriate instructions to remove it.



    Andy, that is a good idea but, just forget for a moment that you know anything about affiliate marketing and you just go to buy-a-item.com as an regular shopper, now when you get there with your machine full of all that crap (with or without your full knowledge about what you have on your machine) as soon as you get to buy-a-item.com , you get a notice that says dear visitor, your browser is infested with this and that, please click here to clean your browser or whatever that notice says , now what would you do?, remember that there're many ad's that pop-up with that kind of (click here to clean your machine, etc) out there.

    I don't know what would you do, but I will not click on a link like that the first time I see it, why?... there're to-many fake ad's that look like (click-here to fix your problems, etc)

    Please, don't take this the wrong way, I am just try to see it from the visitor side, if I was that visitor and I saw a warning like that when I just wanted to buy an item there and I saw that warning, I might just go to the next site just in case.

    Sal.

  10. #10
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    I'm thinking of something similar to a "frame buster" that acts instead like a pop-up blocker.

    Haiko's effort is a big big step in the right direction. It can detect. I hope that in the near future, it can also block, or at least jam the actions of the parasites while the surfer is on our sites.

  11. #11
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    waytogo,

    It'll do better than just scan and detect ... it will constantly protect. Thinking outside of the box has created a *New* and more effective method of fighting and protecting against infestations. I'm telling ya .. this is some real good stuff here ... nothing like the spybot or the other offerings.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  12. #12
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    Haiko

    that's great. i'm looking forward to it. it's about time that we fight these ticks in their own game.

  13. #13
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    Sal,

    It doesn't block anything. The way the Doxdesk script works on my sites, when a visitor arrives at my site with a browser infected with nCase or others that are detectable, the visitor gets a not-so-subtle message that they are infected and I provide links to where they can find ways of removing it.

    I continually get emails from visitors thanking me for the info & though I'm not sure how true it is, many say their computers run faster after disinfecting it.

    Unfortunately, not everything is currently detected. I hope the new scanner fills the gaps.

    Wayne

  14. #14
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    About the Spy Scanner I have a question.

    By looking at that screen shot I see that there is a (System Summary) , now I would like to know where that system summary data is going to be stored.

    It's something we can check offline and fix it ourselves if we find some parasites, spy-ware, etc or that is something that in order to check it out, we must be connected to the internet and have a third party site gather all that info before we find out if we're infested with something or not?

    Sorry for that question but, the more I learn on ABW, the more I like to know before I go with the general flow. Either I am getting more paranoid or I am getting more wiser here, I rather make a stupid question now, that lament later.

    Sal.

  15. #15
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sal,

    End user doesn't need to be connected to the net to run the scanner. System summary is not stored anywhere only displayed on end user's machine after about 20-30 secs of scanning (on or offline) no personal systyem info is sent anywhere.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  16. #16
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Thanks Haiko,

    Now I feel better about the system summary.

    BTW, do we have to wait until next week?

    Just kidding, take all the necessary time to make sure it works fine and we can at least beat some of the crap that is going on lately, one way or the other.

    Sal.

  17. #17
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    I agree with NorthernStudio's sense that since the popups occur as a result of problems with users' browsers, in general there's nothing that web publishers can do.

    That said, for certain programs and for certain sites, it can be possible to make small changes that stop pop-ups from targeting a site. For example, sometimes pop-ups can be stopped by a small change in a URL or even in page contents.

    The necessary changes are extremely idiosyncratic -- different for every site, and for every program targeting that site. And the changes don't generally last forever; after a while, the programs target the newly-modified site.

    All that said, I've worked with a few site designers who were interested in these methods, and we were often successful in stopping the programs we most wanted to stop from covering the sites we were working on. The effort required is not insignificant, though, especially given the need for ongoing attentiveness. I'm not sure this is worthwhile for many site operators.

  18. #18
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    quote:
    I agree with NorthernStudio's sense that since the popups occur as a result of problems with users' browsers, in general there's nothing that web publishers can do.
    Ben

    never say nothing. sometimes, a solution can appear from the most unexpected places.

    perhaps, if you share your methods with us, somebody here can come up with an idea on how to make them less effort-intensive. or even better and workable.

    I'm not a programmer by training, so I don't know what you and the other designers are up against. However, many successful people became successful because they didn't know that they're not supposed to succeed. Like what Haiko said, thinking out of the box can get you new stuff.

  19. #19
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    Here goes --

    There are a two basic ways advertisement display programs generally decide to show ads -- based on what domains / URLs users are visiting, and based on keywords in those pages. Let's focus on the first one. If your site is being targeted based on a complicated URL (say, the URL to your shopping cart system), you could change that URL. Once the ad-display program noticed the change, and revised its targeting, it would again target your shopping cart. But if you could change your shopping cart URL easily enough, and fast enough, you could probably stay ahead of the ad-display program.

    Last year I posted Documentation of Gator Advertisements and Targeting which, among other features, told web site operators which URL fragments on their sites were being specifically monitored or targeted by Gator software. It's generally possible to conduct such research for other programs too.

    So the necessary steps are, at present:

    1) Identify which programs are targeting a site, and on what basis.

    2) Figure out a way to reconfigure the site to avoid said targeting.

    3) Return to step 1 when programs adjust.

    Of course this method can't do much as to targeting of, say, just a site's domain name. If Gator decides to target ads at, say, any page whatsoever on ibm.com, there's not much IBM can do (in terms of reconfiguring its web site) to make Gator stop. And some ads are indeed targeted this way -- though, to be sure, many are not.

  20. #20
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    So Ben, having read the article, it appears that Gator can not only be plumbed, but it can be forced to cough up ads on demand. An infinite number of webmasters with infinitely nothing better to do might have the ability to tie Gator's servers in a very nasty knot, no?

  21. #21
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    quote:

    So the necessary steps are, at present:
    1) Identify which programs are targeting a site, and on what basis.
    2) Figure out a way to reconfigure the site to avoid said targeting.
    3) Return to step 1 when programs adjust.



    Ben,

    Do you say:

    1) Identify which programs are targeting a site, there to many out there.
    2) reconfigure the site to avoid said targeting, how often?
    3) Return to step 1, what?, a Return to gosub again?

    If I have to Identify, reconfigure and then return to step 1 again and Identify, reconfigure and then return to step 1 again and Identify, reconfigure and then return to step 1 again and in order to avoid the parasites... well ... this look like die, get kill or start a war... and see who survive at the end.

    I don't know but, I think that solution looks to hard to handle on the long run than other methods out there.

    Sal.

  22. #22
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    Mr. Sal, I agree completely that this is not a tactic all web sites will want to attempt. It's proven workable for some, I gather, but I wouldn't think many ABW participants would want to try these approaches.

    Recall from my first post, a couple messages back: "The effort required is not insignificant, though, especially given the need for ongoing attentiveness. I'm not sure this is worthwhile for many site operators."

    As to how many parasites have to be addresses: For many sites I've talked with, I think there's at least a perception that the largest few (say, 2 to 5) parasites cause the majority of the problem. Perhaps the concentration was larger in the past than now -- that's surely the trend.

    As to "how often": I've seen parasites respond in days, in weeks, and not at all.

  23. #23
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Ben Edelman:
    If your site is being targeted based on a complicated URL (say, the URL to your shopping cart system), you could change that URL.
    Ben

    do you think there's a way we can "hide" the url from the sensor of the tick's program, instead of changing our url from time to time. or perhaps something to screw up the way the parasite identifies the url on the browser. if the parasite can't identify the current url, then it won't be able to serve pop-ups.

    the parasites are playing hide and seek with us - they hide and we seek. but let's say we stop seeking, and start hiding ourselves. something along this lines.

  24. #24
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    Waytogo, I think hiding URLs may work for some parasites sometimes -- methods like FRAME'ing an entire site, or using ASCII encoding of URLs. I don't think these methods will be sufficient in general, though, as to most parasites over an extended period.

    Here we come back to NorthernStudio's initial comment: "The pop-ups occur as a result of actions & conditions on the visitor's browser. Haven't yet heard of any server-side application that will prevent a pop-up on someone elses browser."

  25. #25
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    "haven't heard" doesn't necessarily mean it can't be done.

    all we have to do is continue looking for a solution. it is true that we may never find one, but if we don't look, our chances are zero to none.

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