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  1. #1
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    **Admin please close this post if you wish**

    I just want to say thanks to Hayder as he summed it up for me.

    "My guess is he didn't even think he had done anything wrong until you all drove him to believe he had. I still fail to see what was so wrong about making up a dot.com to fill out a field in a form that he hadn't even believed would get approved at all. Cripes he's the only guy in the world that ever played around. Time to get off the freaking high horse. "

    I am a complete noobie to being an affilate & it didn't even occur to me that I had done anything wrong with amazon. It was never really my intention to comit any kind of fraud and as they say they review submissions I didn't think they would accept me.

    Also I think i said that I just made up a URL. Fact is its a URL that I own but with nothing on it. Not sure why I said I one up was probably just shellshocked by peoples reaction in here. I do intend on creating the website but as I am sure you will all agree there is a lot to learn, So I have stuck up a "Coming Soon" page on my URL & removed my Amazon PPC.

    I didn't want to get off on a bad note with this forum as I am sure I could use your help in the coming months.

    Finally its a shame nobody could answer my original question about CJ, although I have finally made a one sale after 792 click!

  2. #2
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    Hey Paul,

    I wanted to say hello and to let you know that sometimes in here you have to have tough skin.

    Remember it's not personal and spend so time looking at the older post people really do care about helping.

    Just be aware of how you word things. There are a hugh number of posts that are from people just spamming the site, and that does not work well here.

    I am not saying you were doing that it was just in the wording of the post. Many of the member here have been around a long time and seen soo many unethical things it's easy to jump first and ask questions later.

    If you manage to stay around for a while and read post on a regular basis you will see what I mean. In regard to you first post do a search in here on CJ and you can read for months on what peoples opions are. If you want mine they do not convert well for me. Very few network programs do.

    Good Luck and congrats on the sale.

    Later,

    Spider Man

  3. #3
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Paul8811:
    Finally its a shame nobody could answer my original question about CJ, although I have finally made a one sale after 792 click!
    Paul

    The first sale is usually the hardest to get, so you're on your way. however, it's a bigger shame if i tell to expect more from CJ because without impressions, you can trip up some red flags and your hard earned dollars can disappear. people here were correct to tell you that you should make a website first. your initial question is moot and academic without a website.

  4. #4
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    Original question?? Sorry, it got lost in all the smoke and flames.

    *Checks other thread*

    Oh, you were wondering how many clicks it takes to get a sale at CJ.

    It depends on the merchant. Some convert wonderfully, and others couldn't convert to save their necks. It also depends on the product. And a lot of it depends on YOU. Your ability to make a site that entices people to want to go on to the merchant and buy, has a lot to do with it. Some affiliates can't sell ice to Saharans even with the best merchants. Others can use a total crap merchant, and will still get sales as long as the merchant doesn't have bad/off tracking or reversal-mania.

    Look at the amount of bars they have, as well as their EPC.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    This is the long part.

    Here's my *general* guidelines to working with the CJ "rating system" (bars and EPC) for picking per-sale merchants. Your site, and your marketing skills, have a lot to do with what will work well for you. It is possible to do well with a 2-bar merchant, and it's also possible to do 0 with a 5-bar merchant.

    I use this system in conjunction with other things, like whether I can sell a particular item or my overall opinion of the merchant (I won't sign up for known clods, for instance).

    "Map" Legend-->Roughly speaking: Low EPC = under $5, Medium EPC, $5-10, High EPC = over $10.

    This guide does not apply to low-paying Lead merchants (contests, etc).

    1 bar + high EPC = not many people want that merchant's products, but the few who do look for that will convert well. Result, once in a blue moon a sale happens.

    1 bar + really low EPC (under $2)= The merchant stinks! People come, but they don't buy.

    1 bar + low EPC = The merchant stinks, but a sale may occasionally fluke in. Still a waste of clicks.

    5 bars + lousy EPC = The merchant stinks. But enough flukes happen out of their outlandishly huge traffic stream, that they make money despite a lousy CR. Ebay's one of these.

    4-5 bars + high EPC = A probable winner. Exception: Some things, like mortgages, have such a high commission that they can get 5 bars even with relatively little action going on.

    2 bars = a probable stinker.

    3 bars = Iffy. It may be good, or it may be a stinker in disguise.

    Vast gaps between 7-day EPC and 3-month EPC amounts/oddball trend graphs: These are BIG warning signs.

    The breakdown of the fish visibly a' jumpin' is this:

    HIGH 7-day and LOUSY 3-month EPC = Reversal Maniac. The sales are coming in fine, but are being taken away before the payment happens. Believe the LOW figure.

    ROTTEN AWFUL 7-day EPC with GOOD 3-month EPC = Tracking has recently become messed up (or, probably more accurately, messed with)! Or, the merchant has died! A check of the 7-day trend graph will often show recent, multiple $0 EPC days. Run away from these like the plague that they are. EXCEPTION: Batching merchants.

    Things bouncing all over in the trend graph, when it's not a batching merchant = a red flag. Be wary, it may be a twitchy hand on the Switch causing those spasms...

    Hope this helps
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  5. #5
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    Leader,

    That is BY FAR the BEST explanation of how to choose merchants at CJ I have ever seen!

    I would like to use it on one of my websites with your permission and I will give you full credit for it.

    This is great stuff for newbies and for those who have been working with CJ for a while but don't really understand what all the abbreviations mean.

    Catwoman

  6. #6
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Paul8811:

    Finally its a shame nobody could answer my original question about CJ, although I have finally made a one sale after 792 click!


    Well, I guess Leader has, and very well at that!


    I was just sorry that the original thread was closed before I saw it because there was a lot of self-righteous claptrap spouted there which I was itching to have a pop at.

    Anyhow, I suspect you can pick the bones that are worth gnawing out of the s***storm.

    Don't worry too much about the 'holier-than-thous' who mounted their white steeds to flame you without offering any constructive advice.

    KM

  7. #7
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    Leader: THAT is a 5-star post! Excellent information put in easy to understand and comprehend language!


    (Sorry, I couldn't find a star...)

    Andy

  8. #8
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    Well, welcome Paul,

    I brought up the Amazon issue to you because of previous experiences I've observed with Amazon accounts with no websites. The operating agreement stated pretty clearly that you are giving Amazon certain rights to collect data, etc. from the data you list as "your site." "Your site" being an operative clause in the terms you agree to when you fill out the application in that all references to linking etc. assume you have legal rights to grant them as they pertain to "your site." Giving Amazon permission to collect data, etc. from a site you clearly do not have rights to is a serious violation of someone elses legal rights.

    I'm glad you cleared up the misunderstanding in that you actually own the site you listed, though it has not been developed. Leader gave you good advice about CJ and others have given you good advice about developing a base website to anchor your links.

    You have been given bad advice by one or two who denigrate the indignation of those who believed you were approaching the affiliate marketing industry through lies or fraud. Though it is clear this is not your intentions, I would urge you to question the integrity and motives of those who would condone such activities, calling criticism of such "self-righteous claptrap."

    This isn't the "Wild West" where anything goes and those who would belittle those interested in upholding laws and principles of honesty are unimportant, silly or "holier-than-thous" are fortunately in the minority on these boards. With the ambiguous court rulings and lack of substantive laws controlling affiliate marketing, many that participate in these boards are trying to "self-regulate" the industry that we are trying to build through educating networks, merchants and affiliates.

    Apologists for the scum do little or nothing to help the efforts, in fact give aid and comfort to the crooks that infest this industry.

    Wayne

  9. #9
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    cj also has a spider, not just amazon.
    it supposedly checks for compliance.

    and unlike LS which is more inclined to investigate first, cj has been known to boot first and not even ask any questions afterward.

  10. #10
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    Welcome Paul, glad to see you getting treated somewhat better than a parasite. Sometimes good things come out of bad situations. No one is perfect and sometimes you end up stepping in stuff before you realize how it smells. Just wipe it off and go on, your not the only one thats ever done it and won't be the last.

    As for my conversion rate with CJ, it was running .024 per hundred this time last year but I'm lucky to get .010 now, same type of traffic from the same places. I have been cutting back on the number of CJ merchants but I don't think that would hurt the conversion rate since I'm dropping the ones that didn't convert well and it should actually be increasing it. I've lost some ground in google but have managed to double my traffic with more sites since last year. I think its a combination of tracking problems, ad blockers, parasites, spyware (cookie) removal programs and maybe even the economy for all I know.

    Anyway, keep on making mistakes cause your not human or doing nothing if you don't and I wouldn't worry too much about any so called heated debates, some folks consider it a form of entertainment.
    Mash Your Motor!

  11. #11
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    quote:
    Originally posted by RoadKill:
    glad to see you getting treated somewhat better than a parasite.
    he's a confessed liar, not a confessed thief.

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Originally posted by waytogo:
    he's a confessed liar, not a confessed thief.

    Some might consider it just bending the rules a little trying to have a happy trip to the bank.

    Realizing that some people have a limited sense of humor as well as understanding, I will try my best to be 100% serious and keep this post as simple as possible.
    Below is the Webster's dictionary definition of thief, thievery and steal:

    thief: one who steals, especially secretly.
    thievery: the act or practice of stealing or an instance of this.
    steal: 1. to take (another's property, etc.) dishonestly, especially in a secert manner.
    2. to take slyly, surreptitoiusly, etc.: as he stole a look.
    3. to gain insidiously or artfully: as he stole her heart.
    4. to move, put, or convey stealthily.
    5. (basball definition of stealing bases not quoted here)
    v.i.1. to practice theft
    v.i.2. to move or pass stealthly, quietly,, etc.
    n. 1. stealing.
    n. 2. something stolen.
    n. 3. something obtained at a ludicrously low cost.

    Purely looking at the technical definition of thief and steal, I'm sure that no one would be silly enough to claim that one of those did not apply to them at some point in their lives, which would "technically" make everyone a thief, as I said in my "confessed" post.
    Unless of course they never stole a look, or a base at a baseball game or stole someones heart or walked quitely or got a real good deal on something in their life. I do understand that thief as related to stealing money is more what people on this board would be concerned with.

    The issue important to most of us is a matter of degree. There is a point (although to varying degrees) that society considers one a thief based on the amount and/or frequency of theft. The law even considers the amount and frequency of theft when deciding on felony or misdemeanor charges, the guilty is still a thief but it becomes a matter of frequency, amount and or price, a 2 bit thief or a million dollar thief, felony or misdemeanor, first time offender or habitual but the definition of thief still applies to all.
    The biggest question in my mind is at what degree or dollar amount does it change from being honorable to dishonorable in the eyes of society, which is what I was referring to with the teaspoons of salt example in another post. Based on my own observations of people I have known thru out my 54 years of living, at some point, at some time, everyone has stolen something. I know no one enjoys admitting to thievery but the truth is the truth whether they like, face it, admit it or deny it.

    Fudging on an income tax return, not reporting every cent that came in from every inhouse program or every penny of interest is lieing to and stealing from the government for example (not considering the non ratification of the 16th ammendment issue), swearing an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the U.S. against all enemies both foreign and domestic and then not doing it is another example of not only lieing but thefth by omission (a can of worms not even touched on yet) of the rights of those that were sworn to be protected (they call their sworn oath to God a "formality"), for all I know, bending the rules a little for personal gain and a happier trip to the bank may also fit this same definition of liar and thief.

    Parasites and big money crooks are usually who we all picture, as affiliates when we view someone as a thief because of our perception of the "degree" of theft. But, since we are all technically thieves by definition, the price is really the only thing that separates the honorable from the dishonorable in the eyes of society, which was the point I was trying to make in my other post. Webster does seem to put more emphasis on "especially in a secert manner" so someone that lied about not being a thief would be considered more of a thief than someone who admitted it, according to Webster.

    As affiliates, if our "price" is high enough to overcome the temptations of becoming parasites then I think most would say that we have more honor than the parasites.
    As for price, I'm convinced that everyone has one under the right set of circumstances, to use an extreme example (just to keep it simple) if a scumbag had a child and was threatening to cut his throat if you didn't steal 10 bucks off the next guy that came along, most people I know would give the next passerby one heck of a battle. Would that be excused on judgement day, I feel sure that it would but its still theft (although in a much lesser "degree" since it wasn't done in a sneaky manner or for selfish gain) its just a matter of price but thats just my opinion and I could be wrong. How about someone willing to pay you 20 million dollars to shoplift a candy bar and spend a few weeks or even months in jail, that would meet my self confessed price limit. How about stealing food for a starving kid if the means were not available for immediate purchase?

    If that doesn't clarify my point about every one at some point or at some time in their life being a thief then I don't know how to make it any simpler and theres no need in spending anymore time beating a dead horse. The other point that may deserve clarification is the hypocrite angle. My question here is, is it hypocritical for a lesser thief to call a greater thief a thief? According to the technical definition, if we are all thieves and any of us call anyone else a thief, then we would be defined as hypocrites. Again, everyone I've ever observed for any length of time seems to fall into this category at some point in time as well. In most peoples eyes, it seems to be acceptable when someone that has been stolen from calls the one that did the stealing a thief and since it is the truth, then it has a certain amount of justification to it.

    Which brings us back to parasites which are thieves no doubt, they steal our legitimate commissions in "a secret manner" and I personally don't have a problem calling bigger thieves than me a thief even if it does make a hypocrite out of me which some consider worse than a liar or thief. So there it is again, a self confessed liar, a self confessed thief, a self confessed hypocrite and a self confessed sinner that has fallen short of perfection.

    When my time comes, the Real Judge will decide my "degree" and may He have mercy on my soul and everyone elses too. Until then, I think the way to go is to worry more about Him and not let little wanna be, self appointed, hypocrite judges bother me a whole lot since I understand a little bit about basic human nature, reality and the fact that theft of a penny is still theft "especially in a secert manner". The main thing as far as this board is concerned is that my sellout price is still above what most would consider honorable limits and I'm no threat to anyones commissions, outside of competing by standard acceptable business practices (if I'm sure what they all are). Although, if the price ever got high enough, I may need more forgiveness than I do right now, I just hope, should that point ever come that I don't lie to myself about the facts and can be an honest enough thief to face and deal with the truth.
    Mash Your Motor!

  13. #13
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    quote:
    When my time comes, the Real Judge will decide my "degree"


    it is not even an issue of degree. stealing is wrong.

    it appears that you are trying to equate "bending of rules" with "stealing" to make your action morally acceptable. the two are not the same. in stealing, you are not just bending the rules, you are breaking it.

    you are a confessed thief. don't try to drag us with you.


    and if you're trying to make your action look morally acceptable to clear your own conscience, here are the two commandments you've just broken.

    3)Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.
    8)Thou shalt not steal.


    my trips to the bank are always happy. my conscience is clear. i earned my money fair and square. and you can too. it is not yet too late to repent and straighten yourself.

  14. #14
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    quote:
    cj has been known to boot first and not even ask any questions afterward.
    They have also been known to promote the hell out of the worst offenders and personaly I think this option happens the most.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  15. #15
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    quote:
    it is not even an issue of degree

    Thats my point exactly, wrong is wrong, the degree is used by society and for our Judgement, the thief is still a thief, the liar is still a liar and the hypocrite is still a hypocrite!

    But, there is hope: Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter."
    God did account Abraham's faithfulness for righteousness, God can do that, because thats what being God and a Real Judge is all about.

    quote:
    it appears that you are trying to equate "bending of rules" with "stealing"


    Actually, I'm not equating, judging or condeming anything other than pointing out the hypocrisy of it, it's not my opinion or judgement call, I'm just going by what God says about it:
    James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." Thats not my words, thats Gods Words, the definition of thief is not my opinion or definition but websters.
    When someone breaks one law, or rule or commandment, that person is just as guilty as the person who breaks them all, meaning a liar or little rule bender is just as guilty as the thievingest parasite.

    I searched for the word bending in the Bible and it is only in there once and has to do with bending down to worship the Lord.
    The closest I came to it tho was this:
    Matthew 5:28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." I don't know if looking and getting a little turn on is considered the same a bending or not. In fact, I don't know how to define bending when it comes to breaking or not breaking a rule, you either do or you don't right? "it is not even an issue of degree"

    Repeat: James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

    WOW!! This may come as shock to you waytogo but the Almigthy God just may view you with the same level of disgust as he does me! Wouldn't that be terrible?

    As for you accusation of me taking the name of the Lord in vain, there is evidently some major confusion as to the definition of the word vain and since I'm sure it must be on my part since I'm so ignorant and such a low life scumbag and all I decided to look it up in Websters.

    vain:
    1. having no real value or significance; worthless, empty etc.
    2. without force or effect; fruitless, etc.
    3. having or showing an excessively high regard for one's self, looks, ability, etc.

    It is my understanding and belief that God does not have a problem with us mentioning, discussing Him and His Word or referring to Him in a conversation as long as we do it with respect and to serve a useful purpose. If thats not the case, there are a whole lot of preachers and others that are in trouble and don't even know it. If you go back and look, at anytime or in any thread that I ever refer to God, or Him or His or His Word or the Real Judge it is always capatilized and not ever meant in any kind of vain or derogatory manner. If I use the word god with a small g, then I'm referring to a false god or self god or any god other than the Almighty God. Some religions actually leave the o out and replace it with a dash or underscore to show respect. Anybody that actually knows me, knows that I may talk about God a lot but I never use His Name in vain. My grandkids know it well, most everytime someone on tv says "oh my God" I point it out and make an issue over the vain use of it. In fact, to never mention Him would be real disgrace and a shameful thing no doubt.

    If your referring to my sarcasm when I said something along the line of, kinda cool, we get to be our own god and make our own rules, you'll see that it was lower case, was not even referring to you or anything you had said at all and that you failed to recognize the sarcasm, humor and rediculousness of the concept. Some people do believe that we will be gods and goddesses someday, if your not aware of that then you don't know enough to judge it, if you are aware of it then you should have recognized it for what it was.

    On number 1, if the Real Judge lacks significance then I don't know what does so I'm ok there,
    on number 2, the Real Judge would definitely have an eternity of force and effect so I'm ok there,
    and on number 3, it's impossible to show an excessively high regard for the Almight God don't you think? And since I've already confessed to being the lowlife, scumbag, beast of a sinner that I am, I might have just escaped the vain definition all together from all directions. In this instance, you do err greatly and your witness is false.

    On the second accusation I stand guilty as accused, just as guilty as every mortal human being on this planet according to the Bible and its got nothing to do with my opinion or me trying to "look morally acceptable to clear your own conscience", of course the Apostle James didn't know you at that time so maybe you are some kind of new exception.

    Since I'm no where near the state of perfection you are, I would really appreciate it if you could help me out of this confusion that I seem to be in because I've wanted to communicate with someone like you for a long time, I just didn't know that there was any perfect people in the world but now that I've found one I have a thousand questions and issues to discuss if you don't mind. Although this is probably not the proper venue I'll try to limit it to one or two or three things at a time.
    quote:
    i earned my money fair and square. and you can too. it is not yet too late to repent and straighten yourself.
    As far as I know, I've been earning my money fair and square, so in that regard, I don't know what I would repent for. This seems like it may be some sort of preconcieved conclusion that you jump to at the sound of the word thief. But if Websters definition is wrong then I'm sure he would change it if you would only let him know that.

    That may be where my confusion originated, I was going to websters for definitions, in which case I might should have been asking you all along, thank you for that insight waytogo, we lower class folks learn something new every day, I suppose thats because we're so stupid, ignorant, unworthy, unwashed and have so much to learn.

    I wouldn't want to be the cause of having God's Word banned by quoting too much scripture but I could use some help understanding what the Apostle Paul meant when he said in 1st Timothy 1: 15:

    "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

    Being a "self confessed" sinner, was he still a sinner after he repented? Or had he already repented when he wrote those words but was still a sinner anyway, the chief of sinners he said? Or, was he sinfree at that point and just lieing to make it sound cool or what? I could really use some great wisdom here to help me understand this better.

    If that one is too embarrassing or hard for you to deal with, maybe you could tell me why Jesus said: My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me, on the Cross? Or, if the rapture happens pretrib, midtrib or posttrib. Or maybe if evolution is true, how come theres not some monkeys out there right now evolving into people?

    If you could please answer these questions for me, I have plenty more and would really appreciate some help here. But I think I've used up my two or three questions so I'll stop for now and will be looking forward to your great and wise guidance.
    Mash Your Motor!

  16. #16
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    Sorry for the delay, Catwoman--I had been missing this thread until it came back up again as active. (If I subscribed to get notification for new posts in every thread I posted in, I'd get hundreds of emails!)

    quote:
    Originally posted by Catwoman:
    Leader,

    That is BY FAR the BEST explanation of how to choose merchants at CJ I have ever seen!

    I would like to use it on one of my websites with your permission and I will give you full credit for it.

    Catwoman


    Glad you like it.

    Along with the credit, I'd like a link-in to one of my sites. Please PM me.

    (I DO have notifications on for PMs, and check that email at least once/day.)
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

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    Some people are tech phobic so building a website or page is not the first thing on the list of 'things to do.'

    As for Amazon, violating their rules is not what you call a sin. Amazon violates their own rules everyday. The rules are there to use when you need to use them not to follow them.

    Example: You are suppose to get 15% juice from a book sale that is direct. We have been Amazon affiliates from DAY ONE. We have sent over ONE MILLION people to Amazon. We have NEVER been credited with a 15% book sale. A whole lot of 5% stuff but NEVER the good commission.

    And since Amazon has over 500,000 affiliates who actually do something, the program is so diluted as to be almost not worth dealing with if you are a newby.

    The most successful Amazon affiliates have built very large numbers of 'bookmark' links to their sites making it very simple for their Amazon customers to simply click the link and buy something withour typing in anything.

    Google Adword are proven to bring 'buy minded people' to merchants...the problem is with all the crapola of datamining, cookie stealing, from parasites that merchants permit to happen on their site, the amount you get credited for selling is easily 50% less than you should be getting credit for.

    We had a CJ merchant we sent PPC visitors from Adwords and PPC and averaged 10 sales per month over 3 years straight...1 sale in 20 visitors. The visitors cost $2 per day, the income averaged $6 per day.

    But the day after Value Click bought CJ, ALL the sales stopped cold.

    Direct links do make money but only if you deal with honest merchants on honest networks and CJ is far from being an honest network and most of their merchants are either dishonest or clueless.

  18. #18
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Jersey Jean:

    As for Amazon, violating their rules is not what you call a sin. Amazon violates their own rules everyday. The rules are there to use when you need to use them not to follow them.


    Follow this person's advice at your own peril. Picking and choosing which rules you follow, whether in life or affiliate marketing carries the risk of penalties. If you feel the rule or the rule maker is unjust, then by all means ignore it but be prepared to pay the consequences.
    quote:

    Example: You are suppose to get 15% juice from a book sale that is direct. We have been Amazon affiliates from DAY ONE. We have sent over ONE MILLION people to Amazon. We have NEVER been credited with a 15% book sale. A whole lot of 5% stuff but NEVER the good commission.


    Simply wrong. Books commissions have not been at 15% for some time, since at least the beginning of the year. Before that I sent plenty of 15% sales. A change in terms is not a violation of rules. I'm no apologist for Amazon and have stopped featuring them as my primary book merchant as a direct result of the lowering the commission on books.

    Wayne

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    Gee Wayne...they did change the rules and the payouts and a bunch of other things they never told affiliates that totally screwed affiliates....and sure if they want to drop you because you don't have a website or page that's a chance you have to take...however, just because you don't have a website today when you join up doesn't mean you won't have one tomorrow or later on in the week.

    It would be pretty stupid to not put up a page ASAP.

    I pick and choose the rules I follow from CPA merchants, if I think they are BS. If they don't like it, get someone else to send them FREE traffic. Most rules are not really rules anyway, but legal boilerplate that are irrelevant.

    Obviously, if the merchant is a good one, you toe the line. Plus I follow all the rules if the merchant is CPC and honest.

    They way I look at it now, AFTER having been stiffed for well over $100k by merchants, is:

    If you want me to send you traffic, it's my way or the highway within the reason of good business sense. Otherwise go pay Google or a PPC engine or find some other chump to rip off.

    I only need a few GOOD converting, honest merchants to make a good living online.

    It was a whole lot easier to make money WHEN CJ was honest or reasonably so. LS has bee never honest althought they have a few proven to be honest merchants.

    CPA as it is constructed on the net today is a total joke. It's designed to screw affiliates.

    First of all, I am not opposed to CPA. Just CPA net style.

    Ask yourself this: You get offered to work on commission for Joe Merchant in the real world.
    You get paid commission only of 10% and you have the whole world to sell into.

    But,

    You only get the commission on the first sale of anyone you bring in. Would you sign on?

    You only get the commission if the guy you pitch the stuff too buys within 30 days of your making a sales call, or 1 day, or 7 days - i.e you have to turn in a list of every call you make and the time and date you make it.

    Would you sign on?

    You only get the commission if the guy buying identifies you as his sales rep. If he calls in and the order taker dosen't get the right info, you lose the commission.

    Would you sign on?

    You would join up in a heart beat right? Only if you are a bloody idiot.

    So why do you sign up for the same crap online and let the merchant rip you off?

    If the rules of the game are dictated by only one side and you don't count. You have only three choices: don't play, follow the rules or make your own rules.

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Repeat: James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
    Roadkill

    nobody accused you of being a thief. you yourself, on your own, confessed to being a thief - and appeared to be proud of it.
    and here you are, trying to teach other people about morals and the Bible.

  21. #21
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    11)Thou shalt not get caught.

  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Prayer meetings are held in the ethics forum every friday. ABW will rotate guest ordained ministers from the various BHO management pools. By popular demand next fridays sermon with be from the CEO of 180Solutions...shirts and shoes required...black tie optional.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    fridays sermon with be from the CEO of 180Solutions.

    He hasn't got a prayer.

    Wayne

  24. #24
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
    Rhea's Avatar
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    This thread has certainly been a revelation. Perhaps Haiko should start a forum for those of you who cheat so you can quote Bible passages at one another and attempt to justify your behavior in a warm and supportive setting.

    In the meantime, don't assume everyone does as you do. You're wrong.

  25. #25
    Full Member
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    Leader,

    Check your PM box.

    Catwoman

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