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  1. #1
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    Having followed the sometimes heated discussions on parasiteware for sometime now, I thought I'd interject a compromise that would seem to benefit all involved: the honest affiliates, the parasites, and most of all CJ itself.

    The compromise is a simple one: when an affiliate brings a customer to a merchant, no other affiliate can get the commission for one week.


    Benefit To Honest Affiliates:
    If you bring a customer to a merchant site, and the customer generates a sale/lead within one week, then you get the commission. CJs system would prevent any other affiliate (or parasite) from taking it from you. As probably 75%+ commissions are made within one week of the customer's first visit, then most of the commissions would be given to the affiliate that first brought the customer to the site. I would estimate a 50%+ increase in commissions for honest affiliates.

    Benefit To The Parasites:
    Groups of angry affiliates who feel that their commissions are being stolen and sympatethic affiliate managers will eventually bring litigation against the the parasites. This could lead to some of their business models being made illegal. As the reach of the parasites is huge (Kazaa alone, hello?) the impact made from the commissions that would be given to the honest affiliates would be small. Hard to estimate, but I'd say the parasites would lose 5-10% of their commssions, while extending the lifetimes of their very profitable businesses.

    Benefit To CJ:
    It's definitely in CJ's interest to see that both honest affiliates, and the parasites are happy. Honest affiliates generate commissions, and bring a cut into CJs coffers. So do parasites. And like honest affiliates, parasites bring commission cuts to CJ that CJ would otherwise never see (because parasites are sometimes the first and only CJ affiliates to be involved in the transaction). There is no way CJ is ever going to give them up. They just bring in too much money that otherwise CJ would never see. How much? Only CJ knows, but it has got to be huge.

    However, as the reach of the parasites grows even more, the honest affiliates are going to become increasingly pissed off. More and more will venture to other networks (like ShareASale). CJ will increasingly find its eggs all being placed in the same parasitic basket.

    For CJ to gravitate (through lack of action) towards an undiversified and possibly pseudo-legal source of affiliates strikes me as being bad business practice. If they allow it to happen (and it will, if they don't change their commission model), they place their entire company at the risk of parasiteware litigation.


    The compromise I mentioned would allow CJ to keep their parasitic affiliates around to generate big commissions, keep the honest affiliates relatively happy, and increase their chances of being in business 5 years from now.



    Best of luck to us all...
    Daniel

  2. #2
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    That will NOT do.

    We are promised 45 day commissions by some merchants which was a big draw to some of us.

    Is it so hard for a network just to say NO to theft ?

    Shareasale can do it. There are emerging networks that do not entertain parasites.

  3. #3
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    quote:
    It's definitely in CJ's interest to see that both honest affiliates, and the parasites are happy.

    I definitely disagree, pacifying parasites is no more than a recipe for a long slow death at best. Possibly total wipeout or restructure should the law become involved in future (and retroactive) legal actions to clean house for them.
    Mash Your Motor!

  4. #4
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    quote:
    Originally posted by womanht:
    Is it so hard for a network just to say NO to theft ?



    It could be hard if the parasites are bringing in more commissions than everyone here at ABW combined.

    Remember that the parasites don't only steal. They bring commissions to CJ that involve no "honest" affiliate. Say I go to ebay.com all by myself (through no affiliate; maybe just Google). A parasite could pop-up a window (it spys on all my browsing and knows I just went to ebay), and set the CJ cookie. So now if I sign up with ebay, the parasite gets a commission, and CJ gets a cut.

    Without the parasite, CJ would have received no commission cut at all.

    And this happens a lot. Spyware, and parasiteware are EVERYWHERE.

    Asking CJ to get rid of the parasites is like asking them to cut out their aorta. It's not going to happen.

    I was trying to think of a way that CJ could keep their money flowing in, and respect us hard working types a little more at the same time.


    ...
    Daniel

  5. #5
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    quote:
    Originally posted by RoadKill:
    I definitely disagree, pacifying parasites is no more than a recipe for a long slow death at best.


    But if they get rid of the parasites altogether, they'll be cutting a HUGE chunk out of their income.

    Parasiteware is the tax on ecommerce.

    The thing is, if someone told you that you were the one collecting, would you say no?


    ...
    Daniel

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    Compromising with parasites is like negotiating with terrorists.
    ~Ernie

  7. #7
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    quote:
    Remember that the parasites don't only steal. They bring commissions to CJ that involve no "honest" affiliate. Say I go to ebay.com all by myself (through no affiliate; maybe just Google). A parasite could pop-up a window (it spys on all my browsing and knows I just went to ebay), and set the CJ cookie. So now if I sign up with ebay, the parasite gets a commission, and CJ gets a cut.
    And which merchant exactly would agree to this scenario? Where the merchant has to pay a non earned commission for traffic that was already at the merchants site?

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Nah to this compromise idea. I want ALL the commissions due me, for the ENTIRE length my cookie would have stayed put if it hadn't been for parasitic interference.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    The reach of parasites is going to decline.

    There will be soon legislation that will make hidden downloads illegal and will require that any program installed by parasites will be easy to remove from your system.

    As we know, once someone has a parasitic program on their computer they very soon want it off. These are not programs that add value for the consumer. They are programs that tick the consumer off big time. People may download the parasitic applications but they will also remove them very fast if they have a way to do so.

    What is also needed is a requirement that all current parasitic applications install updates with easy removal instructions for their programs already on peoples computers.

    When those things are accomplished, only the people who truly want the parasites on their computers will have them. Then, parasites won't be much of an issue.

    Keep your legislator's feet to the fire on this!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  10. #10
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    Abstract1, you're kidding me right? I see you're fairly new as a poster. Are you fairly new to the game too?

    They ‘are’ public enemy number one in this industry, and you want to cut them a break? Not if most of us have any say in it. They’re not only destroying this industry, but they are destroying computers as well. Bad idea!

    I think a new chapter has turned with the updated publisher COC. If we all work together, merchants, publishers, and trusted third parties, we can, as Todd put across, shape this industry to ethical standards and fair practices. Win, win, win for all, and it's the right thing to do! Not only for our sake, but for the sake of everyone using the net. It's on its way to heading to the cesspool if it’s not already there. Parasites get no break if law and order is to be had.

    What I feel is very important, is keeping the trivial BS (ESPECIALLY if it was from the past) out of the picture, unless past mistakes are a reference for implementing wisdom if that makes any sense. Lets see how it goes, millions are counting on us whether they realize it or not. It's not just this industry that is threatened, but also the Internet overall. In fact I would give it a code red if we were using the terrorism color code system....

    "Keep your legislator's feet to the fire on this!"

    Already in the works here in N.Y.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    What SSanf said.

    Andy

  12. #12
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    No. NO. NO-NO-NO-NO-NO.

    en-oh.

    No appeasement, no compromise, no parasites.

    If you want to keep honest affiliates then you have to build a program in which honesty can thrive. If you even appear to be giving an advantage to those who cheat you're essentially sending a message to everyone that says, "Pssst. Cheating is okay, just as long as you cut us in on the deal." Then all hell breaks loose. Chaos is damn difficult to control.

  13. #13
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    if there were no affiliates the parasites would have no one to feed off.

  14. #14
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    That's right, Herb, and that's why each *individual* parasite dare not annihilate us. However the various parasites don't cooperate with one another and if their combined effect is to destroy us then they will all lose their meal ticket. And when we're gone, the networks will be SUTC too.

    Red Queen Theory tells us that both predator and prey must continually evolve new strategies and abilities to survive. As parasites develop new strategies we affiliates must react to protect ourselves. In response the parasites develop new strategies to attack us.

    In nature what typically happens is that neither predator nor prey wins. It's pretty much a stalemate with one or the other periodically gaining the advantage only to lose it as the other reacts. When something major goes wrong, the result is extinction.

    RQT is also meaningful in population dynamics, reproductive strategies and game theory. It's a very powerful tool.

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Damn Daniel you sound like someone who would like to force others to refer to genocide as euthanasia, as it is a more sensitive term. Well us honest long term domain bound worker bees for the merchants and networks are the ones being murdered and raped by all forms of valueless cookie stuffing thieves. CJ Performics-BF and LS didn't volunteer to curb the theftware acts of their BHO cloned hatchlings. A core group of ABWers have been waging a battle, getting our butts kicked at every turn since September 2001, starting with the secret TopText & Gator group.

    I and every other ABWer, who never wavered in our crusade to stop the affiliate genocide, don't give a rats ass about the sensitivities of the network boardrooms. BOO HOO if their cut on the non-commissionable actions of BHOs or cookie stuffers hurts their revenue stream. Their just a link/banner Ad server with a reporting hook. Does Bill Gates or the Feds, tasked by consumers to stop the bleeding of innocents shoppers getting whacked and blindsided, give a hoot about compromising with these cyberthieves.

    I put this out for you guys and gals to ponder to see the similarities.

    The networks are the Government/country called Sudan. The hardworking natives eeking out a living are like affiliates and inhabit the Danfar region. The BHO's and commission stealing cookie stuffers are the Janjaweed ( Arabic meaning devils on horseback), who for years have murdered, raped and pillaged the Danfur villages taking over their only source of income ..farming land..enslaving those left. Sundan secretly sponsors, arms and instructs the Janjaweed to carry out their dastardly deeds and tells the disturbed world all is fine in Sudanland.

    Daniel and the sensitivity wanks want to poo-poo the ethnic cleansing/genocide by Smoke and Mirrors and denial tactics and lame meaningless paperwork resolutions. Well the world community gets awaken by the media winds to the stench of 50,000 rotting bodies with 1 million more just waiting for the sword to fall.

    I say the network's situation is just like the Sudan/UN fiasco. Hiding the actual wholesale murdering,raping and pillaging is no longer an option. Mechants unwittingly funding the Janjaweed via 2nd party (Sudan/Network) commissions now for the first time are caught in a quandary. Morally are they condoning genocide (euthanasia for the sensitive crowd) of the actual worker bees by turning a blind eye to the actions of the Network/Sudan agents even if it helps fill their coffers?

    Why does everything have to change as the system currently in place helped milk the system and funneled the money to the greed mongers and power brokers. WTF is with these whistle blowers and the nerve of the slave worker bees objecting just because 10% of them get whacked out of existence via darwinism. Maybe we can throw out some paperwork resolution condemning the actions of the janjaweed without resorting to sanctions and disarming them. Sh*t can't we find a spot for them to bury the bodies where the media winds can't pick up the stench and hide the money flow trail.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  16. #16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Herb Ô¿Ô¬:
    if there were no affiliates the parasites would have no one to feed off.


    Unfortunately, that's not true.

    Reread my above post for an example.


    ...
    Daniel

  17. #17
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    It is clear to me that as some of you are equating the loss of your $1.73 Zappos commissions to loved ones being murdered in New York, Iraq, and Sudan, that you may not be seeing the entire situation clearly.

    Despite Mike's 3 year crusade to free CJ of evil, you will find that the parasites (and their partners) are as deeply rooted as ever. Just look at your EPCs over the years.

    Spending another 3 years on the cause makes little sense in my mind as one could spend those energies working with and helping to build one of the newer completely parasite-free networks.

    Trying to turn CJ into one is going to take years (if ever). There's really no point, unless you're looking out for Todd, and want to help ensure that he can feed his family.

    ...
    Daniel

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    No Way Jose!

    If my dogs have fleas, I will make sure to pull their off my dogs and burnt them! I will not let the parasites suck the blood out of my babies! And sure not gonna tell them to hey just do the ear part and I let you live!

    You don't make a deal with the devil, unless you want to become one!

    What COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commission
    Don't worry tracking is Infected

    Live life to the fullest, You only get 1 chance. Enjoy it while you can... Nothing last forever!

  19. #19
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    abstract1

    There is not a parasite on the face of this planet that will not bleed you dry given the oportunity.

    There are also many many more Networks fully prepared to throw in their lot with the parasites than there are that will ban them or stop them using the tactics they do that is for sure.

    Take no notice of these so called new COC's they still fall far far short of stopping the thievery and cheating. There is still ample room for the thieving swine to continue to steal from us and continue to fill the Networks pockets don't you worry.

    These Network guys can spin with the best, in fact if "Spin" was an olympic sport CJ would walk away with the gold no problem.

    Also I find this offensive
    quote:
    It is clear to me that as some of you are equating the loss of your $1.73 Zappos commissions to loved ones being murdered in New York, Iraq, and Sudan, that you may not be seeing the entire situation clearly.
    There could well be many people/affiliates to whom the loss of $1.73 could almost result in a situation nearly as bad as someone being murdered. So please do not asume everybody is as rich as yourself.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  20. #20
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    See there Daniel you just shot yourself in the butt. Any reasonable thing you might have said before, or might say in the future has been nullified by your use of cheap theatrics to try and score a point:
    quote:
    It is clear to me that as some of you are equating the loss of your $1.73 Zappos commissions to loved ones being murdered in New York, Iraq, and Sudan, that you may not be seeing the entire situation clearly.
    Where do you get off with that comparison? Cheap shot. It has been noted.

    Feel free to set up your own network of collaborators. Might I recommend you call it Vichy? Frankly I think your suggestion is a little

  21. #21
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    Sorry about that Rhea, but it's difficult for me to hear people (Ernie, and Mike above) try to use the gravity and horror of terrorism and genocide to explain parasiteware (or anything else for that matter).


    ...
    Daniel

  22. #22
    Full Member Sophist's Avatar
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    What good is legislation going to do?

    If the networks accept the parasites what is stopping both of them from just setting up shop outside the US, and US law? Uncle Sam says don't mean Sh*t to someone in Asia or Europe.

    Seams to me that until the networks are on side this is going to be a battle not easily won. When the honest folks line the networks pocket with more $$$ then the parasites, then maybe they will care.

    Whats the old saying? Money talks, bullsh*t walks.
    <b><a href="http://5startravelgroup.com" rel="nofollow">5 Star Travel Group</a> - Luxury Travel Memberships</b>
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  23. #23
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    There will always be folks who use theatrics to try to prove a point, or who lack a sense of proportion, or who just plain don't have much sense. Those folks become known over time to the others and we tend to ignore their hysterics, attention-getting devices, and self-promotional tactics. One of the advantages of hanging around a place for a while is you get to know the inmates.

    In any case I think you probably need to know that for most of us this isn't a matter of losing or gaining a $2.00 commission. It's a matter of ensuring the viability of affiliate marketing into the future, and it's a matter of ethics. I won't play for a team that's dirty and I won't pay protection money to a bunch of internet gangsters. I especially won't willingly do business with people who are making the internet an unsafe, paranoid place through uninstallable, drive-by downloads and a host of other dirty tricks. Not for $2.00, not for $20.00 and not for $20K.

    No appeasement. No accommodation. No collaboration.

  24. #24
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    Maybe Daniel works for the parasites..lol, why else would someone push that kind of compromise. Not to mention he's totally new here.

  25. #25
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    A compromise like that sounds more like what parasites themselves might suggest.
    There are networks that don't entertain parasites.
    Shareasale is one of them.

    They have consolidated payments and datafeeds and do not accept parasites as affiliates.

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