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  1. #1
    Outsourced Program Manager e-Gazer's Avatar
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    Todd,
    I was wondering if you could answer a question for me? Why is CJ pushing WhenU on affiliates?

    I received an email from a CJ Account Representative today encouraging me to reconsider working with WhenU.com? I read it and thought to my self "you've got to be kidding me?" When we expired WhenU we gave them an explanation as to why we did not want to work with them. I assumed that was enough, but to then have to re-explain this to CJ; whom I would have thought would know better than to approach us since we state in our program terms that we are committed to being parasite free, and have already expired them once in the past.
    I'm just wondering, who are you looking out for? The affiliates or yourselves?

    Catherine

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
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    $$$$$$ LinkShare dropped them.

    [This message was edited by TrustNo1® on November 24, 2003 at 05:52 PM.]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    I think this thread should stay on top, until CJ answers this very good question.

  4. #4
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    You can be almost guaranteed there will be no answer from Todd or anyone else (if there are any) from CJ on this matter.

    Also, I think the answer is pretty obvious.

  5. #5
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    CJ is Pro-Parasite...period!

    What they say and what they do are two different things.

    Honest affiliates should look forward to a time when they have to suffer the consequnces of what they have done.

  6. #6
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by SamBay:
    I think this thread should stay on top, until CJ answers this very good question.


    Here's helping it stay on top.

    My slogan says: "A market for everything", Yeah, except "drive-by crooks".

  7. #7
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    oh my! i'm not the only one who thinks there might be a problem

    Web_Novice
    "Should I encounter a moment of clarity, I hope to have it recorded in these journals."

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Umm, search my posts back in May where I reported that Jeff Pu had admitted that he had CJ sales personnel pushing WhenU

    Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli


  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    Like I've always said . . . CJ are theives~!
    Todd, if WE don't make money, you don't make money? More and more BULL and proof every day you guys SUCK

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

  10. #10
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    That kind of language won't encourage Todd to respond. But let's keep this thread going.

  11. #11
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Cyclone:
    Todd, if WE don't make money, you don't make money?



    It stands to reason that CJ is Probably making more money than ever BY PARTNERING WITH PARASITES.

    It also stands to reason that, if you work for a company and you want to keep your job, you are probably "limited" in what you can say regarding that company.

    So, the choice COULD be to say nothing or to simply regurgitate the "Company Propaganda" that we have all heard too many times before.

    By their Actions, CJ Proves on a daily basis that they believe Parasites and their methods or tactics are acceptable.

    It is my opinion that CJ also BELIEVES that they will never have to pay the price for their Pro-Parasite Actions.

    Some day, when the parasites have finally been "exterminated" (by legal or technological means - or both), will CJ just be able to continue with business as usual the way things were before their partnerships with parasites?

    Will all the honest affiliates do business with them as if all this had never happened?

    I hope not. But, it looks as if they're counting on that happening.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador ktmkiddy's Avatar
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    keeping the thread on top....

    Malc

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    In my last job I was doing tech support for a software house who deliberately kept their (not-especially-technical) sales team in the dark about some pretty nasty problems inherent in the software.
    The sales team were also frequently, brutally, purged if they didn't reach their targets.
    The whole system sucks.

  14. #14
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    As long as a publisher is in compliance with the CoC, we may or may not promote them or other publishers to our advertisers. We educate our advertisers on why certain publishers may or may not be right for their business objectives and (as always) in the end, the advertisers has the final decision as to whether they decide to work with any publishers in our network.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

  15. #15
    The affiliate formerly known as ojmoo
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    The problem with this is that the CoC was created by cj and the others (I forget the list of who created it) for cj and the others. It didn't come from a neutral body (those who inhabit ABW). So, they can say these parasites adhere to the CoC. There is no independant source to appeal to. We can complain, but it doesn't matter.

    What we need, is a real CoC with an outside appeal process that we all can trust. I say Mike and Charlie write a CoC (I don't believe anyone could/would write an airtight CoC better than them. They seem to spend alot of time thinking/writing about it, well at least Charlie does ) Then we can certify the networks by a TRUSTED FOURTH PARTY, b/c this trusted 3rd party isn't doing it.

    When Haiko said, "Ebates is in compliance" I believed him. When cj said it, I didn't believe them. I'm sure I'm not alone here.

    Mike
    Bovine Bazaar
    Cow gifts and collectibles

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Radegast's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    As long as a publisher is in compliance with the CoC, we may or may not promote them or other publishers to our advertisers.


    If WhenU is in compliance, my arse is a slot machine.

  17. #17
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    The CoC was never anything more than a cruel joke. I bet they crack themselves up every time they mention it. "LOOK OUT, Here comes the CoC Police!"

    CJ (and several other networks) are going to continue to be Pro-Parasite because it makes them shitloads of money AND because they can get away with it.

    I can almost hear their battle cry, "Damn the small honest affiliates - Full steam ahead!"

    The best thing we can do is Remember this!
    Remember how CJ is treating us and act accordingly in the future.

    When CJ shows up someday claiming that things are good now because they are rid of those nasty parasites...remember it then!

    CJ will undoubtedly try to position itself as having been an innocent victim in all this. Those of us who lived through it will KNOW better.

    It will be up to us to let them "lie in the bed they made" by doing as LITTLE business with them as possible and letting others know how they have conducted themselves during the parasite era.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    Until such time another "trusted" party with NO financial gain to be made is looking after a so called COC nothing will change at any network.

    Its just like a kid with the ball in a park. It's my ball, play by MY rules or don't play at all

    ...............
    WW

    Make a difference! Support your local Cancer Care providers.

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I knew the CoC was doomed as an enforceable document when the authoring group was a behind doors meeting chaired by the parasites pawn Wayne Porter. The ethics debate got so heated that the CoC committee alienated even the greed driven Linkshare CEO Stephen Messer by the piece of crap they proposed in the final draft. His legal background recognized immediately the document was designed with parasitic affiliate/Duper and shady merchant loopholes making it worthless.

    Only thing stopped was the deliberate swapping of affiliate ID#s by the rogue programs during the click process. The CoC committee agreed the return day cookie was supposed to become the vehicle for hijacking commissions and smart BHO's would attack at the point of sale...not the affiliate site.

    Here's the quandry for the networks. They are still tasked with recruiting active affiliates to their entire pool of merchants to justify their fee structure. With the surge of rogue BHO's, not even willing to abide by the lame CoC, active affiliate income is tumbling. Where's the incentive other then the typical smoke & mirrors spin?

    Instead of guaranteeing the work to buildout bookmarkable affiliate shopping portals gets rewarded, the reality is the networks & most merchants are forcing the majority of affiliates to employ SE spamming and poor man's tricks for clicks. One force of shiesters attack at the SE traffic source, hire BHO traffic/cookie hijackers, while the insider BHO S/W affiliates rape the merchants and fellow affiliates at the point of sale.

    Certain BHO and even merchants are copying and penetrating the sleezy antics of domain bound affiliates not content with their share of the pie. All attention in 2004 is how to manipulate cookies, while cookie cutting, anti-spyware/adware programs, firewalls etc. etc... cut off even honest affiliates income.

    You are darn right me and Charlie could write an iron clad CoC document leveling the playing field for all breeds of affiliates. Problem is no network would enforce it as it would muzzle their major players. I prefer the 4th Trusted party to be District & States Attornies waiting to charge violators with felony theft charges.

    Could you imagine how quickly documents & stats and depositions would unravel the hidden alliances within the affiliate industry when a grand jury is requesting them. Comparing CoC committee notes, networkwide stats, Afftrak stats and the data mining records would be very enlightning to a judge who's home/office computer was hijacked by a BHO drive-by.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  20. #20
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Todd, I think you and your cohorts should decide once and for all what business you are in. Either you are for us or you are against us.


    _____
    I earned something? Who screwed up?

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    We educate our advertisers on why certain publishers may or may not be right for their business objectives

    Educate? Isn't the actual term "aid and abet?"

    Wayne

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Only in the Affiliate Marketing industry is this possible today. Two parties make a deal with each other, and a third party ensures fulfillment of the deal.

    But what one of the parties doesn't know, is that a fourth party is going to come in and make the original deal null and void, yet one of the original parties to the original deal doesn't know this is happening. That's fraud, in my book. And it's illegal.

    In short, this would not be tolerated anywhere else. Affiliates have agreements stating we will be paid for our traffic that buys something from the merchants. THIS IS NOT HAPPENING!

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's wrong. This is going to all come crashing down some day, and let the chips fall where they may!

    Andy

    _______________
    Call the Exterminators! We've Got PARASITES!

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador
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    CJ BUMP

    Brian
    aka Cyclone

  24. #24
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    I wonder when they push these parasites on merchants and "Let them decide" if they happen to mention ANY negative business practices, affiliate opinions, or even explain what they are doing that might be considered illegal.

    No, I bet they don't. So to say you just let the merchants decide is a little laughable. At least at the end of your emails add "You might want to search this on abestweb.com" hahaha.


  25. #25
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    I wonder when they push these parasites on merchants and "Let them decide" if they happen to mention ANY negative business practices, affiliate opinions, etc.
    Yes, we do. There is no deception going on - we are always straight forward about these issues with our advertisers.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction

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