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  1. #1
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    Folks,

    Haiko recently suggested that I post further documentation of the way 180solutions continues to target CJ merchants.

    Haiko also quite sensibly points out that there's been little or no crisp, well-organized, clearly-titled discussion in this forum about the effect of 180solutions on CJ merchants and affiliates -- discussions here have had titles like "Looks Like SpyWare on CJ May BE Confirmed!", whereas a better title would give the specific program being discussed in the thread. Hence my decision to start a new thread.

    In any event, lots of CJ merchants remain targeted with 180's "double" affiliate ppopups -- at least dozens, maybe hundreds; I haven't run the full tests necessary to produce an exact current number. So it was not hard for me to make a video and packet log showing what is currently taking place.

    For details, see Example Packet Log with Double-Popup Cookie-Stuffing. This page provides four kinds of information: 1) A general description of the events I observed (more detail in my original article), 2) A screen-shot of the ultimate on-screen display of gateway.com substantially covered with a 180 affiliate "double" popup, 3) A video showing the course of events that led to this display (including my Cookies directory before and after the 180 popup; with a CJ cookie set in the course of the browsing), and 4) A packet log, showing the specific means by which 180 invoked the double window and set the cookie.

    It's not hard for me to produce these pages -- start to finish, this page took less than 30 minutes, and I'm sure I could do them faster if I were doing more. What would folks here most like to see in order to "believe" my findings? I could post a corresponding narrative, screen-shot, video, and packet log for one or several LinkShare merchants, or for some more CJ merchants. Or I could switch to posting videos and packet logs some more complicated and more subtle cookie-stuffing -- like cookie-stuffing through hidden windows (beyond the example I posted earlier this week). Or I could show some 180 advertiser popups that look like ordinary non-affiliate 180 popups (not "doubles" of merchants' sites) but contain IFRAME, JavaScript, or other invocations of merchants' sites through affiliate links, such that these "ordinary-looking" popups nonetheless set affiliate codes.


    Ben

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    That's all the proof I need. If they can do it once to one merchant they can do it to all.

    Great work, Ben. Thanks.
    Ron Bechdolt | Affiliate Program Management Consultant
    7 Days A Week Marketing

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Goodwork Ben, do you have/can make a page (just like that one) showing them overwritting an affiliates link? (ie if I go to google and click on an affiliate link for gateway(or other CJ/BF merchant) and get the pop up and overwrite of the originating cookie?

    PS Thank you for taking the time out to do this.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  4. #4
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    Haiko, I can definitely make a page like that. I did one of those last month, and it's straightforward, just as you anticipate. The cookies are indeed overwritten -- I checked.

    Wish I had gotten your request earlier, as I could have incorporated that into the page I just made, showing targeting of store.apple.com (a LinkShare merchant) via a 180solutions "double" popup (tests run at 9pm on July 22). (Someone else could post this in an appropriately-titled thread in the LinkShare forum if this is thought to be sufficiently notable to merit discussion there.)

    Anyway, now I'm headed out for some Friday evening obligations, but I'll make and post the requested video either late tonight or else tomorrow.

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ben,

    That isn't what I mean. Here, go to google, search for a "CJ merchant coupon" (CJ merchant being a CJ merchant's name) go to one of the sites listed and click on their affiliate link to the merchant and show 180 overwriting the cookie set by that original affiliate's link you clicked to get to the merchant.

    Have an enjoyable evening.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    [Moved two off topic posts, to the appropriate thread]
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  7. #7
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    Following up on Haiko's request --

    In testing of earlier this morning, I prepared a packet log and video that show the following:

    1) Browse to an affiliate's site. Click through to merchant.

    2) Get 180 "double popup," which reaches merchant's site via an affiliate link.

    3) Observe cookies, see reference to the 180 popup's affiliate iD, not the original affiliate's ID.

    I think either the video or the packet log (with accompanying linksynergy.com cookie listing) is sufficient to understand what's going on here, but in any event I've provided all of this -- plus some narrative, highlighting, and screenshot / thumbnail.

    I'll be interested in the interpretation of ABW experts as to the net effect of these communications and set-cookie instructions. As usual, I have lots more videos and packet logs on file, so if this one doesn't show what folks are interested in, I'm sure I have on hand what is required.

    Also available: New paragraph in my original article, referencing the three new packet logs & videos posted in the past 16 hours

    (Haiko, sorry if I misunderstood your 9:17pm message. It seems clear to me, and I thought I was on track with my 9:30 reply. If this isn't the testing you were interested in, just send me an email or PM and I'll prepare what you had in mind.)


    Ben

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Ben,

    linksynergy = Linkshare

    Please use a CJ merchant!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  9. #9
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    At Haiko's request, a packet log and video showing CJ merchant FogDog being targeted by 180, and FogDog tracking cookies modified, even after the merchant was reached through an affiliate link.

    Also, a packet log and video showing Performics merchant ValueMags being targeted by 180, and ValuleMags tracking cookies replaced, even after the merchant was reached through an affiliate link.

    Index of all additions of the past two days


    Ben

  10. #10
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Good work Ben, TY
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador DesignerWiz's Avatar
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    Ben, that is excellent documentation!
    Ray Thomas
    Webmaster Resources: http://DesignerWiz.com
    ABW Board Category: Programming / Coding
    http://forum.abestweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=190

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nice documentation of a theft in process. No wonder these types of point of sale attack dogs, using forced cookie sets or swaps, are the darlings of the AM's blowing smoke & mirrors at the real merchant management. Take away the forced clicks/cookies and double dipping and these wanks couldn't make more than a legit coupon site for commissions. Take away the drive-bys and hidden bundled installs and they'd be looking for another racket.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  13. #13
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    Nice job! Now that there is proof, I suppose CJ will have no choice but to make 1800 a featured solution provider ;P

  14. #14
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    Todd:

    your comment?

    carneol

  15. #15
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    quote:
    Originally posted by web_novice:
    Nice job! Now that there is proof, I suppose CJ will have no choice but to make 1800 a featured solution provider ;P


    Or at least give them an award for being upstanding and honourable affiliates.

  16. #16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by carneol:
    Todd:

    your comment?

    carneol


    Umm. errr.. Sorry but we cant replicate this. If we do find anything wrong though, rest assured that we will give these perps 60 days in which they must fix this oversight.

  17. #17
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  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    Todd/CJ,

    The evidence that Ben Edelman posted above certainly seems to be a violation of CJ terms. What is CJ going to do about this?

    Andy

  19. #19
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    What is CJ going to do about this?


    They are going to give them 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given 60 days to come into "compliance" and hope we go away and forget about it. If we don't, they will announce that they have found them to be in "compliance". We will point out that they are not and then they will be given .....
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  20. #20
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    Am I reading this correctly?

    The affiliate link is the last thing that a user clicked on, but the cookie gets changed later automagically? No Pop-up or other reditect, or action of the user, caused the cooie to be overwritten?

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    ROLMAO ...."180solutions Chief Executive Keith Smith, a 32-year-old college dropout who wanted to be a youth pastor before turning to the Internet, disputes the criticism and the unsavory nicknames.

    "I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there," said Smith. "They view us as hijacking a user's computer, adding no value to the consumer and bombarding them with advertising messages. That is absolutely not the case. We are sponsoring content and making the Internet free."

    Strange leap of Faith to jump from getting a $20 Ministers licence as a do-gooder to running an Adwhore theftware operation exploiting kiddies into hidden downloads.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  22. #22
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Its not such a leap of faith Mike if you think of the likes of that Popof guy and some of the other Ministers I've read about and seen on TV. A lot of them seem to live in absolute luxury at the expense of the people who believe in them.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  23. #23
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    Good catch Gordon - Maybe we will get lucky and he will get caught and share the same jail cell that Jim Baker stayed in when he got caught for selling GOD!

    They get what they deserve!

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    See how I earned my title....
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Andy's Avatar
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    quote:
    Keith A wrote:
    Am I reading this correctly?
    Yes, Keith I would say you are. Isn't it nice to know that our "trusted third party" CJ is looking out after our best interests?

    All they're doing is making sure THEY get their finger in the pot, and to hell with the rest of the affiliates! We're too stupid in their book to do anything about it, anyway...

    Andy

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