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  1. #1
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    Shoes.com uses a cookie based javascript for serving remote content to their website. This comes along with an i-frame. Can this influence the tracking cookie from cj.com?

    carneol

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    No.
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

    Affiliate Marketing Solutions by affSolutions - Creator of the Product Showcase Creator™

    Managed Programs: EssentialApparel.com (Join) | SportsFanfare.com (Join)


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  3. #3
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    If a customer clicks through from my link to shoes.com and browses there through their pages then each time a new cookie is set. After the browsing the customer buy something. Now there is my cookie on his machine, but the newer cookies are from shoes.com. They will find their cookie and then count this as their sale. Is'nt that the matter?

    carneol

  4. #4
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    And which cookie is responsible for tracking your sale....your cookie set when the click happens from your site by CJ or the shoes.com cookie?

  5. #5
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Tis the same question Ms.B I posed to Befree's Tigerdirect concerning if they read the referral info from the HITBOX redirect or read the BF cookie at checkout time. Asked this to be investigated since last January with no answer yet!
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    The culpret common with dropping conversions on hundreds of merchants....HITBOX spyware script.

    Shoes.com...

    //-->
    </SCRIPT>
    <!-- BEGIN HITBOX CODE--><!-- BEGIN WEBSIDESTORY CODE HITBOX COMMERCE v3.2.13 (product view) --><script language="javascript">var _acct="DM540215H6ZF93EN3";
    var _cacct="975402176438";
    var _pn="Product-Womens Gavin(5009442)";
    var _mlc="/Womens/-/Naturalizer/Womens Gavin(5009442)";
    var _seg="";
    var _dcmp="";
    var _dcmpn="";
    var _cmp="";
    var _cmpn="";
    var _gp="";
    var _gpn="";
    var _fnl="(9604,1)";
    var _pec="";
    var _fv="";
    var _hra="";
    var _hcn="";
    var _hcv="";
    var _hlt="";
    var _hla="";
    var _hqsr="";
    var _hqsp="";
    var _hc1="Womens";
    var _hc2="Naturalizer";
    var _hc3="-";
    var _hc4="/";
    var _lt="auto";
    var _c1="-";
    var _c2="-";
    var _vpc="030213a";
    var _pr="Womens Gavin(5009442)";
    var _bd="Naturalizer";
    var _ca="/Womens/-/Naturalizer/Womens Gavin(5009442)";
    var _pc="56.99";
    var _qn="QUANTITY";
    var _sk="54304";
    var _sr="";
    var _cp="null";
    var _pndef="index.html";
    var _ctdef="full";
    var _dlf="n";
    var _elf="n";
    var _dft="n";
    var _hrf="";
    var _cam="0";
    var _gn="ehg-shoes.hitbox.com";
    var _pv="1";
    function $ii( a, b,c){ return a.indexOf(b, c?c:0)};function $is(a,b, c){return b>a.length?"":a.substring(b,c!=null?c:a.length)};function $a(v){ return escape(v) }; var _sv=10, _bn=navigator.appName, _mn="we74", _bv=parseInt(navigator.appVersion), _rf=$a(document.referrer), _epg="n&cam="+_cam+"&pv="+(_pv?"1":"0&abd_type=cart_add")+"&product="+$a(_pr)+"&quantity="+$a(_qn)+"&brand="+$a(_bd)+"&category="+$a(_ca)+"&price="+$a(_pc)+"&store="+$a((_sr=="S"+"TORE")?1:_sr)+"&tz=PST&aid="+_cacct;if(!$ii(_bn,"Micro"+"soft"))_bn="MSIE";if(_bn=="MSIE"&&_bv==2)_bv=3;function $l(m,l){return m=="/"?m($ii(m,"/")?"/":"")+(m.lastIndexOf("/")==l?m.substring(0,l):m))};function $n(a,b){return(a==""||a=="/")?"/":$is(a,_ctdef!="full"?a.lastIndexOf("/",b-2): $ii(a,"/"),b)};function $o(a,b,c){var d=location.pathname,e=$is(d,d.lastIndexOf("/")+1,d.length);if(a&&b==c){return(_pndef=="title"&&document.title!=""&&document.title!=location)?document.title:e?e:_pndef}else{return(b==c)?$n(d,d.lastIndexOf("/")):$l(b,b.length-1)}};function $p(a,b,c,d){return ""+(c>-1?$o(b,$is(a,0,c),d)+";"+$p($is(a,c+1),b,$ii($is(a,c+1),";")):$o(b,a,d))};_mlc=$p( _mlc,0,$ii(_mlc,";"),"CONTENT+CAT"+"EGORY");_pn=$p(_pn,1,$ii(_pn,";"),"PUT+"+"PAGE+NAME+HERE" );</script><script language="javascript1.1">_sv=11</script><script defer language="javascript1.1" src="HTTP://www.shoes.com/hitbox/hbx.js"></script><script language="javascript">if(_sv<11){if($ii(document.cookie,"CP=")>-1){ _ce="y"}else{document.cookie="CP=null*; path=/; expires=Wed, 1 Jan 2020 00:00:00 G"+"MT";_ce=($ii(document.cookie,"CP=")>-1)?"y":"n"};if((_rf=="undefined")||( _rf==""))_rf="bookmark";document.write( "<img src='"+( location.protocol.toLowerCase()=="https:"?"https://":"http://")+ _gn+ "/HG?hc="+_mn+"&hb="+$a(_acct)+"&n="+$a(_pn)+"&bn="+$a(_bn)+"&ce="+_ce+"&ss=na&sc=na&dt=&hp=u&cy=u&hv=6&sv="+_sv+"&con"+"=&vcon=" + $a(_mlc)+"&epg="+ _epg+ "&ja=na&ln=na&pl=&cd=1&cp="+$a(_cp)+"&seg="+_seg+ "&dcmp=" +_dcmp+"&cmp="+_cmp+"&gp="+_gp+"&fnl="+$a(_fnl)+"&pec="+$a(_pec)+"&ra="+$a(_hra)+"&gn="+$a(_hcn)+"&ld="+$a(_hlt)+"&la="+$a(_hla)+"&cv="+$a(_hcv)+"&c1="+$a(_hc1)+"&c2="+$a(_hc2)+"&c3="+$a(_hc3)+"&c4="+$a(_hc4)+"&rf="+_rf+"' "+"border=0 height=1 width=1>")}; if(_bn=='Netscape'&&_bv<4) document.write("<\!"+"--");</script><noscript><img src="https://ehg-shoes.hitbox.com/HG?hc=&cd=1&hv=6&ce=u&hb=DM540215H6ZF93EN3&aid=975402176438&n=Product%2DWomens+Gavin%285009442%29&vcon=%2FWomens%2F%2D%2FNaturalizer%2FWomens+Gavin%285009442%29&seg=&cmp=&gp=&cam=0&pv=1&product=Womens+Gavin%285009442%29&quantity=QUANTITY&price=56%2E99&store=&tz=PST&vpc=030213an" border="0" width="1" height="1"></noscript><!--//--><!-- END HITBOX CODE-->
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  7. #7
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    Todd, could you step in here?
    If necessary I could post the javascript here. It is a free jsrs script. In my eyes one could also use it to set as much cookies as one wants from as much merchants as one wants.

    carneol

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Shoes.com uses the CJ tracking pixel. Therefore the CJ cookie is responsible for tracking. Whatever shoes.com does they cannot touch the CJ cookie.
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

    Affiliate Marketing Solutions by affSolutions - Creator of the Product Showcase Creator™

    Managed Programs: EssentialApparel.com (Join) | SportsFanfare.com (Join)


    Affiliates: Product Showcase Creator Directory | Merchants: License the Product Showcase Creator™!

  9. #9
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    That is not the question. Of course the tracking cookie is set, but if they find a younger cookie set by themself they would not count that as a sale from an affiliate, buit as a sale from their own website.

    carneol

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Akiva I have asked and demanded a written confirmation on HITBOX and other merchant clickstream datamining applications that do screw over cookies...all cookies. Every merchant and AM from you to TigerDirect to the networks refused to commit one word of documentation and warranty to the affiliate community spyware dataming S/W doesn't whack tracking cookies.

    This crap has been challenged in hundreds of posts here since January 2004. Get off the spin mode and smoke and mirrors mode and make the networks and datamining S/W wanks put it in writing. Then we can class action sue their collective butts if their Adwhore S/W is whacking the network sales tracking.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  11. #11
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    Should we ask Ben Edelamn on this? Funny that I get no real answer on this.

    carneol

  12. #12
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Carneol, Akiva answered it in his first post when he responsed "no". I tried to get you to really think about it when I asked which cookie is responsible for tracking.

    You say yourself in your first post: a cookie based javascript for serving remote content to their site. If that cookie is used to control serving of conetent to their site, what would it have to do with tracking? The fact that an iframe is used means nothing by itself. iframes are used for many things. Just because you hear people talking about iframes alot in connection with questionable activity doesn't make iframes bad themselves. Many affs use iframes as a method of protecting their links from redirection by parasites.

    Many Merchants besides Shoes.com also sets their own cookie. A majority in fact. Just because you see a Merchant cookie being set doesn't necessarily mean any type of foul play is going on.

    Could Shoes.com not count a return visit if the visitor comes back through another non affiliate means based on their own cookie? Yeah they could, but that is a far cry from that they do. Ebay actually does do this...it's in their TOS and been discussed here extensively. I've never heard that is the case with Shoes.com. Any Merchant who batches (and Shoes.com batches) could manipulate what they report as sales but they wouldn't need a ocokie to do that. But again that doesn't mean that they do. There are many honest Merchants (even on this board) who batch their sales to the Networks. There are alot of things in this world that could happen, it doesn't mean that they are happening.

  13. #13
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    Sorry Ms.B:
    I do not mean that they are manipulating anything. But you and also Akiva did not answer my question. Of course I know that what you and Akiva wanted to tell me, but my question was another one.
    Hopefully I can explain it more clear:

    When a customer who came to the website of shoes.com ( or to another merchant using the same ) by my link and purchased a pair of shoes, then on the goodbye site the tracking cookie is set. OK ?. But if the tracking cookie of the merchant is set later by the iframe, the merchant possibly thinks that the later cookie counts and so they would count that as a sale from their own origin website. Could this be the case? That is my question.
    If there is the impression that I want to accuse shoes.com: no I definitively will not. Why does cj.com not allow its publishers to set cookies with an iframe? The reason I think is the same as asked in my question.

    carneol

  14. #14
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    The tracking cookie is set at the time of the click of the affiliate link to the Merchant's site by the Network. Tracking cookies are always set by the Network not the Merchant (except if the Merchant is running an inhouse program). The sale is tracked (recorded) on the Merchant's receipt page of the sale.

    So in your example above (if I'm understanding it correctly), the sale would have been tracekd and recorded when the customer made the purchase. Any cookie set after that purchase has no impact since the sale has already been recorded.

    So the answer to your question of could this be the case would be....no.

  15. #15
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    Carneol, I agree with the comments in all the posts above. Let me try to add a few words of my own:

    You're right that the youngest CJ cookie set determines which affiliate gets CJ commissions on a given purchase. IFRAMEs are one way (though hardly the only way) to set such cookies. So when you see an IFRAME on an affiliate's site, cookie-stuffing is always something to think about.

    But not every IFRAME performs cookie-stuffing. Cookie-stuffing (or, more generally, cookie setting & overwriting) can only occur when a system (here, an IFRAME) in fact sets an affiliate tracking cookie. If a merchant uses IFRAMEs for some other purpose, e.g. the purpose for which IFRAMEs were intended (embedding the contents of one ordinary web page within another), this wouldn't set CJ tracking cookies.

    Take a look at the specific shoes.com IFRAMEs at issue. What hyperlink is loaded in these IFRAMEs? If shoes.com loads a CJ tracking link in an IFRAME, I'd be concerned. But if they load anything else into an IFRAME, well, more power to them if they find that a convenient and useful way to operate their site. Such an IFRAME shouldn't have any effect on affiliate tracking.

  16. #16
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    Ben: why must they set a cj.com cookie? They can have their own tracking cookie which reports a sale then as their own and this cookie is served by an iframe. I am not familar with those things that is why I asked that here. Is it possible that this could happen, and if yes are you able to test that?
    I will try it again: If a sale is made by the merchants own website, then the merchant also sets a cookie with a certain content. Now if a sale is made by an affiliate link, the merchant serves a cj.com cookie first, and then in an iframe serves his own cookie so that it appears to be a sale from their origin website. Are you able to test that?

    carneol

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