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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Is this or is this not a violation:

    Someone goes to a publisher's website, chooses a merchant from a dropdown to go to the publisher's page that features a merchants products or coupons, and the merchant page also opens in a new window setting a tracking cookie.

    I have been told different things by different people at CJ and would really like to know for sure so I don't waste any more of my or CJ's time.

  2. #2
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    Is this or is this not a violation:

    Someone goes to a publisher's website, chooses a merchant from a dropdown to go to the publisher's page that features a merchants products or coupons, and the merchant page also opens in a new window setting a tracking cookie.

    I have been told different things by different people at CJ and would really like to know for sure so I don't waste any more of my or CJ's time.


    Sounds like a forced click to me. Many of the coupon sites I go to; do that. I wonder why cj continues to allow them to get away with this???

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Well, there are lots of sites doing it, and I have gotten conflicting answers from CJ AAQ..
    So I just wanted to know one way or another for sure. I want to know if by CJ standards it is against the COC.
    Some sites I reported months ago, nothing has been done.

  4. #4
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I've got a question in CJ's QAA Connie asking a very similar question.
    I cannot see them allowing it myself but if they do not then I sure as hell want to see those sites that are doing it deactivated.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  5. #5
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    Well, there are lots of sites doing it, and I have gotten conflicting answers from CJ AAQ..
    So I just wanted to know one way or another for sure. I want to know if by CJ standards it is against the COC.
    Some sites I reported months ago, nothing has been done.


    I think it is pretty obvious that it is against the COC. What perplexes me is why is it so hard for cj to get rid of those sites already. Just deactivate them.

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Connie Berg:
    ...and I have gotten conflicting answers from CJ AAQ
    I wish they would post a page or in the terms os use EXACTLY what is not allowed. We really need to get rid of this gray area that exists. That, and everyone, even AAQ would be on the same page.
    Scott
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#!t
    Don't tell me that you'll do it... SHOW ME.
    Just because everyone else is drinking it is no reason for me to drink the KOOL-AID.

  7. #7
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Connie,

    What you are describing seems to be specific to the coupon/deal segment of affiliate marketing.

    What usually occurs is an affiliate site will list coupons/deals for several advertisers. When the consumer selects an advertiser, it usually links to a detail page on the affiliate site listing any coupons/deals. Sometimes it also open a second window to the advertiser offering the coupons/deals.

    If the link is specifically for the advertiser, it could technically go straight to the advertiser's site and bypass the coupon detail page (this is what most affiliates normally do). This would not be a forced click since the consumer selected the advertiser by name.

    The problem occurs when there are no deals/coupons available for this advertiser. Then I think the affiliate is forcing a click for an offer that doesn't exist. This is something we would police and take action against.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Thanks for the answer, even though it was not the answer I was hoping for.
    Those coupon sites forcing cookies and opening the merchant site in a new window are doing nothing wrong.
    I think it really needs to be clarified in the COC so we don't waste our time and CJ's in complaining.
    It is getting really hard for some of us straight playing affiliates to compete when there are so many others overwriting our cookies.

  9. #9
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    Todd, that sounds like a flip-flop answer to what you gave on 10/20 in this thread:
    http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&...=288108409&p=3
    quote:

    Another expample would be same publisher X instead of buying keywords begins opening new windows (pop unders) when people visit certain sections of their site (without requiring visitors to actually click on links) that set cookies (forced clicks). Publisher is contacted and told to stop or they will get deactivated. Publisher stops - end of story.

  10. #10
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Connie,

    The CoC addresses software applications, not websites. The PSA would address this issue.

    Linda,

    My example you referenced is about opening a window without the end user's consent (something that would not be allowed). In my example above, I said the end user selected the advertiers by name (not a forced click since the end user clicked on the actual link).
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  11. #11
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    Linda,

    My example you referenced is about opening a window without the end user's concent (something that would not be allowed). In my example above, I said the end user selected the advertiers by name (not a forced click since the end user clicked on the actual link).

    Thanks Todd. I'll go right now and start popping under the merchant's sites and set those cookies since you say it's ok.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    Hi Todd, I just PM'ed you. I came across a CJ affiliate who was using popups to pop a CJ merchant. From the reply I got it seemed it was OK to link to CJ merchants via popups,

    "The Publisher Service Agreement requires that transactions be made in good faith, although pop-up ads are not necessarily disallowed. Based on the information you have given me, I do not believe that it is a violation of the CJ Code of Conduct. Please let me know if you have further questions."

  13. #13
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    Thanks Todd. I'll go right now and start popping under the merchant's sites and set those cookies since you say it's ok.
    OK, I'll go right now and have your account deleted for violating the PSA.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I know several merchant I talked to aren't real happy about it. It messes with their epc.
    I am sure now we will see every site doing this now that they have seen here that it is ok. Wish I hadn't even asked.

    The way I see it, the person clicked on the merchant name to see if there were any coupons. They didn't click on the actual affiliate link to go to the merchant site.

    I think it should be that unless a visitor clicks on an actual affiliate link, there should be no automatic opening of the merchant site.

    I repeat, the visitor should have to click on the actual affiliate link, not have it auto clicked on for them.

  15. #15
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    JJJay,

    Thanks I'll look for the PM and check it out.

    Just to clarify what I am saying would be allowed - if an end user (a visitor to your site) clicks on a link for a merchant you list, it may open in another window.

    You may not open another window and set a tracking cookie, if the end user does not click on a link for that merchant.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    What a grey area!!!

    http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...7507#136107507

    "Commission Junction does not allow affiliates to force clicks. There are no exceptions. We are monitoring for this activity and when we determine that it is occurring we either warn the affiliate that they must stop or we deactivate their account (or both).

    I know in the past, based on some advertisers' preferences, we allowed some forced clicks. Now we no longer allow this. Some affiliates may not be aware of this policy change and are still forcing some clicks. Again we are in the process of detecting and preventing this activity.

    Todd Crawford
    Commission Junction"

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador JJJay's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:
    JJJay,

    Thanks I'll look for the PM and check it out.

    Just to clarify what I am saying would be allowed - if an end user (a visitor to your site) clicks on a link for a merchant you list, it may open in another window.

    You may not open another window and set a tracking cookie, if the end user does not click on a link for that merchant.

    Thanks for your time Todd.

  18. #18
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Connie,

    quote:
    I know several merchant I talked to aren't real happy about it. It messes with their epc.
    I am sure now we will see every site doing this now that they have seen here that it is ok. Wish I hadn't even asked.
    I agree with you and if the merchant does not like affiliates doing this, they may request that affiliates not do this. In the end, the merchants set the rules on how affiliates may market them and drive traffic/sales to them.

    quote:
    The way I see it, the person clicked on the merchant name to see if there were any coupons. They didn't click on the actual affiliate link to go to the merchant site.
    In some cases this may be true but in other cases it is not that clear to the end user, the merchant or to us.

    quote:
    I think it should be that unless a visitor clicks on an actual affiliate link, there should be no automatic opening of the merchant site.

    I repeat, the visitor should have to click on the actual affiliate link, not have it auto clicked on for them.
    I agree but in some case opening a new window is practically the same thing - it is hard to differenciate the behavior and often it comes down to the merchant's preference.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  19. #19
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ToddCrawford, CJ.com:

    Just to clarify what I am saying would be allowed - if an end user (a visitor to your site) clicks on a link for a merchant you list, it may open in another window.

    You may not open another window and set a tracking cookie, if the end user does not click on a link for that merchant.

    That is exactly what I am talking about. I have a drop down box with all the merchants listed that when clicking on a specific merchant, takes the visitor to a page on my site that lists coupons and deals for that merchant. So now, according to you, I can go add a pop-under to that merchant's page on my site that opens up the merchant's site, and thereby, set a cookie.

  20. #20
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    here is another thread with a similar question that needs answering please Todd. here
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  21. #21
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Linda,

    quote:
    That is exactly what I am talking about. I have a drop down box with all the merchants listed that when clicking on a specific merchant, takes the visitor to a page on my site that lists coupons and deals for that merchant. So now, according to you, I can go add a pop-under to that merchant's page on my site that opens up the merchant's site, and thereby, set a cookie.
    I suggest you get permission from each merchant prior to doing this - just to be on the safe side.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  22. #22
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    "The CoC address software applications, not websites." ???????

    "Linda, My example you referenced is about opening a window without the end user's concent (something that would not be allowed). In my example above, I said the end user selected the advertiers by name (not a forced click since the end user clicked on the actual link)."

    I can see Todd drooling as 10,000 CJ affiliates stream out of this post and build a two sentence website with a simple Google look. Add the pull down list of 500 merchnats and fool the shopper into a quick trip to cookie land. Hell ..mix in some juicy deceptive PPCSE keyword advertising to boot ($50.00 off your next JCW purchase ..click here). So what if it's inaccurate as your duped victim get's wisked, vai a cookied redirect, to the merchnats front page. They never to land on your offer page. They clicked the name and that's the game!

    Incentives to use the pull down come from enticements in the 2 sentences. Add in a 3rd world PPCSE search bar and get paid to send traffic based upon keyword split fees. You could also program the search bar to go to an internal site auto re-direct page. Just think of the quick page and cookie loads.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Yay, I have a merchant dropdown too..guess if you can't beat em you might as well join them. Maybe one day I can be a titanim winner too..

  24. #24
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    Mike,

    If an affiliate is sending users to non-existant offers, they will most likely get removed from the merchant's program (by the merchant). We would also find this against the PSA and take actions as well.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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  25. #25
    Ad Network Rep ToddCrawford's Avatar
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    quote:
    Yay, I have a merchant dropdown too..guess if you can't beat em you might as well join them. Maybe one day I can be a titanim winner too..
    I strongly urge anyone thinking of doing this, first get permission from the merchant.
    Todd Crawford
    Co-Founder, Impact Radius

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