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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Although I "allowed" Chuck back after his cooling off period and mailed him ... it is the decision of this board to uphold its rules and regulations more than appease any particular member. I am sorry Chuck and I am sorry to any members who might leave as a result of this decision but Rules are Rules, there will be order here!

    Thank you one and all for your understanding,

    Haiko
    Administrator

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador mailman's Avatar
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    Haiko. Does this mean that Chuck is barred from this site? If so please enlighten me.
    Gerry

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Gerry,

    He has access to view the boards but is precluded from posting.

    Haiko

  4. #4
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Chuck apologised to you, he apologised to everyone he offended, and you respond by banning him? That's not right. He contributes to this site in a positive way, and yeah, maybe he blew things up a little out of proportion and all, but jeezopete, if you can let Pranav back in here, why not let someone in that contributes positively? I disagree with this. Everyone makes mistakes, Haiko.

    -elbowcreek

  5. #5
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    It is best not to not show any favoritism to "forum regulars" because EVERYONE should be held to the same rules or we have "chaos" again and that is not productive for anyone!

    Respectfully,

    Haiko

  6. #6
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I was thinking forgiveness, rather than favoritism. As for favoritism, though, is Pranav banned or not? I mean, he DID plagiarize a fellow member's site. As I recall, he apologised and we moved on. So, in all fairness, how can you let one guy in and the other not? In both instances, the members violated your rules. If you want to be fair, they should either both be in or both be out.

    I think they should both be in, and we should get back to making money. Life is too short to be hurtful, and to worry over the little things, Haiko.

  7. #7
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    Yeah. Two site copiers and one really offensive sexist are still here. Seems a little odd. Especially when you consider that had his site not been copied, Big Chuck would still be here. If he's banned just for saying things I can think of worthier nominations. We could start by taking sexism as seriously as racism would be, and banning people permanently for theft.


    I

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    Prananv did copy Leaders site but that is not against the "rules" and I can not control that! Pranav is however a suspect for the moderator forum hacking and once I know for certain who is culpable I will take appropriate action!

    I am not harping on anything with Chuck, I like him, I appologized to him ... but I must follow the rules ... for If I don't what do we have?

    Respectfully,

    Haiko

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Haiko,

    I'm sorry. I got bull headed, and so do you. I can forgive and forget if you
    can. You really are pretty decent guy, and like myslef, pretty good fellow
    when we take time to cool our heads. I also apologize to all - I'm sorry for
    my heated words. If offended you, please forgive me. Elisabeth, I have
    respect for you, and I apologize again, and to any who though i was slamming
    hher - I really wasnt trying to. To clear the record, I have not entered
    anyones email, especially Haikos, in any lead based programs, or anything of
    the like. I myslef get bombarded with vadmin.com emails 10-15 times daily!

    Big Chuck
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    IMO - I also think Chuck deserves another chance. If it was me I would send him an email stating that it is ok for him to come back and that all issues that were discussed other than his site being copied have to be dropped. He has apologized to all partys involved I believe.

    Thats all I will say on the matter. It is your choice to make not the abestweb members. <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif>

    [ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: Packy ]

  10. #10
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I will reitirate, I think you are acting unfairly, and I am disappointed in you.


    -elbowcreek

  11. #11
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    I agree with elbowcreek. I've tried to stay out of the BigChuck mess, but I want out to point out something: You yourself violated CJU rules constantly with your outrageous behaviour. Are you not will to extend the same act of forgiveness that was extended to you by CJ?

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    Just as a point of information ...

    If that thread was on any other forum ... he would have been banned on his first post.

    That does not justify or condone my leniency or lack thereof, but it shows how far I was willing to go.

    From my side ... "Train Wreck" was the quote ... it hit me like a train ... we all haven't gotten this far to let it all go to waste because of one two or ten members ... this is a good board (we have gotten many accolades from many affiliate mangers and affiliates also) ... people have made more and / or will make more because of it.

    I'll repeat the fact that: If this was another board it would have been totally different!

    ------------
    I,

    I am working on sexist and site copier wording for the terms as well.


    Respectfully,

    Haiko

  13. #13
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    SpongeBo,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... extend the same act of forgiveness that was extended to you by CJ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is not CJU and never will be! I, nor our mods, would not allow a member to divulge another members site(s) out of spite or the million other things they did wrong. CJU was a fiasco because they never stood by the rules, we will and do!

    Respectfully,

    Haiko

  14. #14
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    Sorry Haiko, but even I feel you to be out of line here. You allow numerous posters to vent with semi-foul language, slanderous comments without justification or proof, and innuendo without benefit of factual content. And yet, you cast out one of your own even after abject apologies. It is your board pal, so I of course have no say in the matter other than this simple paragraph. I feel that I must say it however.

    Obstinatedon

  15. #15
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    [thoughtful post deleted before posting because it's not worth the time to argue about this. Go Vols, Chuck.]

  16. #16
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    If Chuck broke rules that were in place prior to his actions (when the new rules were posted, I couldn't remember which were modifications and which were original rules), I am in complete agreement with Haiko.

    If rules are actually enforced, people are much more likely to follow them.

    And that, I think is where the issue is arising -- most of us are aware of other people who have behaved badly (threats of violence, racist jokes) and are still here.

    So, is this a shift in the enforcement of the rules? And Chuck gets caught in the inevitable crossfire? So be it. Somebody has to be first. I think the telling point will be how the rules are enforced from here on out. If the powers that be stick to these new standards, I won't have a problem with it.

    If others are allowed to continue in the manner they have in the past without being banned, then (and only then) was banning a mistake.

    [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Cedric ]

  17. #17
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    Dear Haiko, although big chuck has broken the rules,

    Well i agree and disagree with your decision. However you have the just right to do so.

    I hope u consider the following

    Agree : Chuck needed to be punished.
    Disagree : The ban

    I guess perhaps imposing certain restrictions on chuck's participation on the forums would be better than A ban.....Agreed he has broken the rules, many have, it needs to start from somewhere....but this wasnt a serious enough occassion to do so. Perhaps if you would have started it with pranav cos he flamed too calling others a liar and stuff...

    Therefore, you should reconsider the issue with big chuck,

    Perhaps a vote if you wish

    one member is allowed to post once and only once. well no reason no explanation is necessary as to why the member has chosen what he chose.

    Just the following

    1. Big Chuck stays and normal access allowed
    2. Big Chuck stays but restrictions imposed
    3. Big Chuck can only view not post (the current one)
    4. Big Chuck is totally banned

    I hope, this wont be much of a problem....to hold a vote...but it depends upon you if you consider it to be necessary or perhaps you guess it isnt...

    Although i guess he hasnt done a serious mistake with regards to the rules....however yep he has broken it

    Your Choice, The ball is in your court..(always has been at ABW [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    Regards
    TGO

  18. #18
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    I wasn't going to get in on this either but now decided to add my .02


    Yes, BigChuck did jump to conclusions, he did act inappropriately (in jest or not), and he did push your buttons relentlessly instead of just admitting he had done wrong.

    Do I think he should be banned - NO
    Do I think the SOB who ripped off his pages should be banned - YES!!

    Inappropriate as his behavior was, I can rationalize (not condone)his behavior because of the situation that started the whole circus to begin with.

    I'm sorry but there is just something that feels inherently wrong with BC being banned while two site thieves lurk among us.

    Yes Haiko, rules are necessary, I guess I just hate to see BC be the "Poster Child" for the now strict enforcement of ABW Rules.

    Unfortunately, nobody can take back words typed in anger, or fix the broken trust, but I'd like to think that we are all big enough people to forgive one another and try to get past this mess - together

  19. #19
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    In the UK theres a legal principle whereby whoever started the chain of causation is the one who gets blamed for it. If someone throws a lighted firecracker into a crowded marketplace and by reflex the recipients throw it from person to person until it blows up - it isn't the last person to throw held liable for the injuries - its the first one.

    You can't drive someone nuts then blame them for acting a bit funny. If Big Chuck said Bad Things, it might be fun to look around and see if we can find out who put him in the frame of mind to do so. Theres your villan. He/she/it must be having a good lol right now.

    Rules are fine when theres no clear right or wrong, but they are no substitute for fairness.


    I

  20. #20
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    Rules are rules people - you don't pay for the running of this board so accept the rules as they are stated by the owner.

    This is THE best webmaster board on the Internet but there has to be rules.

  21. #21
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    Fine in theory, but you live by the rules you die by them too. There will be lots of things not specifically forbidden by the rules. God help the lot of us should any mischievious person feel like getting up to some of them.

    What you gonna do then? More rules? It might be better to use a little flexibility now rather than be forced into it later. Rules always require interpretation anyway so you can't claim the human factor is removed because theres some Rule to point to. Rules are no substitute for the faculty of judgement.

    How can I object to Haiko doing what he likes on a board he pays for? I only note that if he's not careful he'll be spending the rest of his career drafting legislation, to little effect.

    This is a waste of time. You only need one rule anyway - be nice to each other.


    I

  22. #22
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Fine in theory, but you live by the rules you die by them too. There will be lots of things not specifically forbidden by the rules. God help the lot of us should any mischievious person feel like getting up to some of them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Erm, let's put things into perspective here. It's a message board. We're not talking about life or death --- I'm sure over time things will calm down and the situation reviewed again.

  23. #23
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I'm with Haiko 100%

    Chuck is out of hand with his freedom of speach crap!

    No one has freedom of speach on somebody elses property.

    Can you go to your local TV station news room and jump in on the conversation with the news person? NO!

    This is Haiko's property and if you say the wrong thing you deserve to be asked to stop. If you continue then you should leave.

    If you don't leave and continue to offend you should be thrown out on your ear.


    Edited just to clarify my thoughts on this.

    I don't have any sort of grudge against Chuck it could be any of our names.

    I'm not against chuck getting another chance either but I am standing for holding up rules and civility.

    [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  24. #24
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    For what it's worth.....my feeling is please consider how provoked he was. He did apologize.

    My vote, if I had one, would be,
    "Big Chuck stays and normal access allowed".

  25. #25
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    Is metaphor against the rules now too?


    I

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