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  1. #1
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    Hello All....

    I have a few questions to pose to the other ABW members. Perhaps those who attended the meeting can answer these for me; or, perhaps not. Just my obstinate-self wanting to see if what I have heard fits the facts...

    1) Was there an announcement by LS at the meeting that most of the major technology players had already signed their addendum prior to the meeting?

    2) Was it announced that Jambafind, Shopathome (the Belcaro Group), TopMoxie (with 6 of their major players, including ebates), and of course, WurldMedia had signed the addendum prior to the 7th?

    3) Did in fact - while everyone was talking about various coding issues - LinkShare already have the issue solved as it pertains to the major technology companies?

    4) Are the three remaining providers still playing around with a supposed "Code of Conduct", when the main culprits have already signed a LEGALLY BINDING agreement?

    5) Did not LinkShare sponsor the event, make sure by their presence, conduct and contact with Haiko et al that the other players attended, ensure that the addendum already presented to the profligate problem companies had been signed before the meeting, make the agreement binding before any judge in any court in the United States, get agreement from those selfsame companies to change their software not only before the meeting - but also before the holiday shopping season so affiliates don't get screwed?

    Just thought I would ask these questions because today is the 10th of November, and many ABW members are still wondering what the heck happened on the 7th.

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Don,

    1-5 .... YES, on every count!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

    [edited to add the following:]

    Linkshare went above and beyond (as always) and Sam Gerace / Steve Pike I was pleasantly surprised at. Jeff and Todd (it was his birthday) I was NOT! Performics hide in the corner, I guess they were waiting for someone to buy them (again). Performics has the most to loose on parasiteware (they have about 5 different aspects of their offerings to merchants (all affected by parasiteware) but they were bumps on logs (interactivity wise).

    [This message was edited by Haiko on November 11, 2002 at 01:50 AM.]

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>not only before the meeting - but also before the holiday shopping season so affiliates don't get screwed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You mean unlike ALLL the eBates merchants? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    Gotta love the CJ and Paul's arrogance (Zero respect!)

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  4. #4
    Full Member heisje's Avatar
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    obstinatedon,

    seems to me that your contribution to our enlightenment on Nov 7 is over and above that of our representatives.

    it should be otherwise, and this is regrettable.

    first, let me thank you for letting us know of important details and to encourage you to provide more, if you feel it would be constructive.

    I would also encourage our representatives, who committed so much time, effort and expense, to brief us in detail about the facts and attitudes, as they developed prior to the meeting, during the meeting and right after the meeting - in open discussion and in private.

    petitions and complaints are currently outstanding before US authorities by individuals and corporations, mainly based on copyright and privacy legislation, and the press is lurking. nobody should be caught unaware of the developments - it would be very damaging.

    it is not clear to me if all aspects emanating from existing US copyright and privacy laws have been covered by the agreements among the parties.

    but such agreements, privately determined, are null and void, I hope they realise, if they do not cover the ground stipulated by current legislation.

    and if the agreements do not provide for straightforward and total protection of copyright and privacy I would take it for granted that we should expect intervention and regulation very soon.

    personally, I am not in favour of external regulation - but I am not optimistic about the developments, including CJ's current stance which has puzzled and disappointed most of us.

    obstinatedon,
    please let us have all information you feel would benefit this discussion.

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Elizabeth just got back last night, I think. She has not had opportunity to report back.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> first, let me thank you for letting us know of important details and to encourage you to provide more, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes


    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Nice lead in Don to the key issues that were to be addressed at the meeting.

    "Are the three remaining providers still playing around with a supposed "Code of Conduct", when the main culprits have already signed a LEGALLY BINDING agreement?"

    Certainly the BHO signees at LS cannot be allowed to have 2 different versions of their hijacking software. One for compliance testing and the other for distribution. What purpose would that serve as it would be "business as usual". That was why I interjected in the ABW position paper the A-G diversion alerts in merchant profiles to see if it was going to be "business as usual".

    Strange that Stephen got poisoned just before the meeting. He should have stuck to just downing the Scotch or made you his official food taster.

    In the light of all the Congressional and State Government campaign promises to protect privacy -stop spamm and CyberCrime by the successful candidates, I should think now is a good time to alert & pressure the FTC to act. I know the Michigan Governor and AG are tuned into the issue and simple solution of applying existing laws muzzling advertizers to activities only within their own assigned broadcasting IP domains without expressed permission from other domain owners. Spoofing e-mail headers, setting up devious mirrored content sites, and displaying advertising without an expressed contract will become illegal real quick.

    WebMaster Mike

  7. #7
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    I'm surprised that this information comes from Don and not from Shawn or Haiko. Geeze!

    Regardless, here are some questions:

    For the parasites that did sign the LS addendum, does that mean that diversions are not done on Linkshare merchants now? and...

    Is the diversion limited / stopped due to a linkshare technology change or something to be or already added in the parasites code?

    Will the diversions still be performed on other networks merchants not included in linkshare?

  8. #8
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    happypoon -

    I did not hear any such announcements by LinkShare at the meeting on Nov 7.

    Shawn Collins
    Director of Affiliate Marketing
    ClubMom, Inc.
    http://clubmomaffiliates.com/
    http://iAfma.us/
    http://affiliatemanager.net/

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
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    Well I'm very confused then.

    Don asked "was it stated at the meeting" yada yada and Haiko said "yes on all 5 counts."

    You didn't hear anything regarding the 5 points being referred to at the meeting?

  10. #10
    Affiliate Summit Guy Shawn Collins's Avatar
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    Correct - I did not hear these points being addressed at the meeting.

    The meeting was largely composed of a series of arguments for various positions on the issue. These took up the morning.

    Then, in the afternoon, the solution providers had a chance to ask questions of the presenters and observers to clarify various points.

    Shawn Collins
    Director of Affiliate Marketing
    ClubMom, Inc.
    http://clubmomaffiliates.com/
    http://iAfma.us/
    http://affiliatemanager.net/

  11. #11
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    You say Tomatoe I say Tamado.

    So the points were made after the meeting then?

  12. #12
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    heisje....

    Thank you, but these are not contributions - simply questions. Appears, according to Shawn, that everything I have heard about these issues were indeed incorrect. I guess it depends as to whether you know what the definition of the word "is" is.

    As to US Copyright law, I am not a lawyer (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I would think that the LS addendum covers the gamut. Perhaps you could enlighten me on this aspect?

    Or, like me, your level of expertise might be in other areas - say lactose intollerance or something. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  13. #13
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    Hi everyone and my personal thank you to everyone who attended the event or helped to make the event a success. I for one would like to say how upset I was to miss out on the event. After fighting hard to make it to the Yale club (in light of an agonizing night of food poisoning), my body just gave out. Mentally I tried to make my body do something it just could not handle, but my heart was there. Either way i was fortunate to have two other great representatives from LinkShare to share the information back to me.

    I for one would like to give a special thank you to Wayne who worked so hard to keep everyone focused and productive (which by all accounts he did very well).

    With regards to this line of discussion, all the providers have chosen to jointly make an announcement so I will not jump in here other then to say that we did (confidentially) give out in a thank you bag an update to the participants on where we currently stood with some of the technology providers and our addendum. Shawn, you should have gotten the bag at the end of the event with a hat and t-shirt along with the update. Other then that update (which was intended to remain confidential, but clearly has not) please wait and look for a joint announcement soon from the providers.

    I hope everyone here has a great holiday season and lets hope we can spend the new year celebrating the best commission season ever.

    Stephen

    [This message was edited by smesser on November 11, 2002 at 11:36 AM.]

  14. #14
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    Just a quick note to say I'm safely home and have internet access again.

    I'll be posting some comments about the meeting later today, after I get my thoughts together.

    The trip home was not smooth -- Toronto airport was shut down by weather, resulting in substantial delays. It was after five this morning before I finally reached home!

    Elisabeth Archambault

  15. #15
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    Welcome home Elisabeth, sorry to hear about the poor ending to the trip. But at least you are home safe and sound and that is what matters.
    Cazzie

  16. #16
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    Glad you made it home safe Elisabeth! Thanks for going....

    "Somebody's got some 'splanin to do!" - Rex [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    welcome home Miss Lis.

    glad you are safe and sorry to hear the delay.

    take as much time to relax!

    The board is gonna be a handfull to answer when you are ready to give the information.

    So you do need alot of rest. lol...

    Thank you for going in behalf of all of us.

    Love Life to the fullest. we only get ONE chance! :-)

  18. #18
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    Welcome home & thanks

    Andy Williams

    Keyword DARTs - New search engine optimization software
    http://www.affiliate-masters.co.uk/k...timization.htm

  19. #19
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Welcome back E. and Stephen. One of you has jet lag and a NYC shopping hangover, and the other best stick to McDonald's like the rest of us. I'm sure we'll be filled in on both the meeting and some Policy progress reports. Hopefully the network message to the BHO Dupers and parasites is having their in-house programmers work 24/7 to muzzle their greedy little applications.

    Meanwhile LS could leapfrog the others if they updated all merchant profiles to address the A-G diversion disclosures.

    WebMaster Mike

  20. #20
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    Don,

    Seems like you have some insider information.

    As a board member of LinkShare your credibility is suspect. Steve - continue to play along as if nothing is wrong.

    Signed,
    Higher Roller

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Higher Roller:
    Don,

    Seems like you have some insider information.

    As a board member of LinkShare your credibility is suspect. Steve - continue to play along as if nothing is wrong.

    Signed,
    Higher Roller<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    High Roller,

    Applesauce!

    Here is the text straight from the gift bag:

    =============================

    November 7, 2002

    Dear Performance Marketing Summit Participant:

    Thank you very much for for taking the time to participate in today's performance marketing summit. We truely believe that by working together to come to a common understanding about shopping technology issues accross the affilliate marketing industry, we can create a more productive and more profitable environment for all companies involoved.

    Enclosed are a few tokens of our appreciation. We hope you enjoy them. Also enclosed, for your referance, is a copy of the Linkshare Affiliate Agreement Addendum. To date, 12 companies are subject to this addendum and nearly all are in compliance, with a few in the process of bringing themselves into compliance.

    Some examples of companies that have signed the addendum and are compliant to date are:

    <UL TYPE=SQUARE>
    <LI>Wurldmedia (Buyersport)
    <LI>Top Moxie (Six compliant companies to date, 3 in process of implementing)
    <LI>ShopAtHome (Belcaro group)
    <LI>Jambafind[/list]

    Thank you once again for your participation.

    We look forward to working with you to create a very profitable fourth quater!

    Sincerely,



    Stephen Messer
    CEO
    Linkshare Corporation
    =============================

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  22. #22
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    Haiko,

    Pudding!

    Let the old man speak for himself.

    Don? Were you there or do you know more than you should? How about posting your bio and clearing all this up?

    "Gift bag"...more like booby prize.

    Paleeeze!

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Higher Roller:
    Haiko,

    _Pudding!_

    Let the old man speak for himself.

    Don? Were you there or do you know more than you should? How about posting your bio and clearing all this up?

    "Gift bag"...more like booby prize.

    Paleeeze!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    FLAN

    Don was not there but he didn't need to to be ... I quoted Stephen's letter ... that should be sufficient.

    "Booby Prize"? LS paid for all of this and also went above and beyond to show what they have done! Sorry, where are the other networks declarations? "Booby" this!

    Once again, lip service, not REAL actions and FACTS ... oh well ... who is the "booby" here? Not, LS, nor Don nor I!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  24. #24
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    I know Don personally and he was not at the meeting.

    As for his past or present company affiliation- he can answer that for himself. Not that it takes much to read between the lines of "ObviousDon's" posts. ROTFL.

    -wayne

  25. #25
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    Haiko,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LS paid for all of this ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That is true but let me clarify that this was not a Linkshare sponsored event. Stephen did offer and LS did pay for hosting the meeting and lunch (he did breakfast too), but the event was a shared industry event with contributions from all sides.

    There were no sponsors, no corporate funds, no sales pitches, etc. Just wanted to clarify that issue.

    -wayne

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