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  1. #1
    Affiliate Network Rep
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    Earlier I sent out a letter to help explain why last week LinkShare notified the other providers that LinkShare had decided not participate with their proposed "code of conduct". Our belief is that their "code of conduct" document only solves a PR problem and, even in that regard, it is vague and does not go far enough. It spells out symptoms of parasiteware without proposing any method to treat or, more importantly, cure the parasites themselves.

    I do not mean to cast any doubt on what has been accomplished. We applaud the other providers for taking this important first step, but, frankly speaking, it is only a first step down a long path that has already been well traveled by LinkShare. Our Addendum, which covers all of the concepts by the "code of conduct" and has already been signed by most of the major players, goes the next step of compelling these players to play fair with the new technologies and, if necessary, modify those technologies to be ethical.

    Earlier today, I read some posts suggesting that we have not
    enforced our addendum. LinkShare believes in a policy of inclusion rather than exclusion. We not only recognize that these technologies are not going away but, as has been said before, many engage in fair and healthy competition and provide valuable services to Web users. Based on what I have observed in the music industry, forcing these technologies underground is no more likely to solve the problem than crossing your fingers and hoping they abide by a “code of conduct”. Therefore, instead of embracing a strategy of "exclusion" but terminating players based on a standard or so-called "code of conduct," we have been working with these technology players to change their behavior and the way they participate in the industry. As my first post shows, LinkShare has made huge inroads in working with the largest providers of this technology. The fact that they are willing to change their software to avoid predatory practices is a development that should, in my opinion, be embraced by the affiliate community. In their non-offending state, these technologies are incredibly innovative and powerful sales tools for merchants proving once again, that an affiliate channel is well worth their investment.

    Our stance may not always be popular but it is the only one impacting actual behavior. At the November 7th event, Wurld Media specifically mentioned LinkShare’s efforts as instrumental in their choice to modify their software. And again, I laud Wurld Media for its willingness to go the extra mile and comply with LinkShare’s Addendum especially in light of the tolerance of the other affiliate providers for a lesser standard. LinkShare efforts in working directly with these players to sign and i repeat this SIGN our Addendum and modify their technology is the reason that our merchant and affiliate partners were protected this fourth quarter. While LinkShare’s strong position has been the harder road, in our opinion, it is the only way to fairly protect all members of the affiliate and merchant community.

    Best regards,
    Stephen

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Stephen by signing the "Code of Conduct" statement would that negate your ability to require the additional signing by BHO affiliates/merchants your TOS addendum? I'm confused that the one,reading like the Constitution of Affiliate Ethics, can't have enforceable ammendments attached to it to clear the air of any confusing issues. I'd think the combination of the two documents would easy your burden of enforcement and send a clear message to all that LS doesn't harbor theftware in any guise.

    You host some major merchants and they need a clear cut statement that LS in no way supports with autoloads, recruiting or special reports those who swap affiliate ID# or interfer with the merchnats sales process from the referral site to the checkout counter.

    I know Overstock sales in Oct & November were stuck at 1 sale per 300+ clicks. Mysteriously when shawn laid down the hammer on eBates Dec 4th and the other parasites got wind of it my sales jumped to a conversion ratio of 1 per 80 click throughs ever since. My referral traffic come 100% from shoppers reading my pages not from any keyword PPCSE. So your addendium has not sufficed this last quarter to protect your merchants.

    Morpheus is being a good Netizen while WhenU -Topmoxie apps -eBates -uPromise -iWon and over 100 parastic BHO affiliate applications ran their hijacking schemes. Sign both and proceed to muzzle these folks to hawk their rewards from their own domains...not the checkout isle of all your merchants.

    Of course I'd vote for you as President, if you kick every "incent" BHO affiliate/Duper out of your ranks with zero severence pay, and burn the paperwork!!

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?


  3. #3
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Do you or don't you allow Parasite popups to appear on a Merchant site?

    Yes or No

    If no, and we can prove it is happening, what will you do about it?

    If no, who do we report such activity to?

    If yes, you are still allowing parasites to steal our sales.

    Vicki

    But if the arrow is straight and the point is slick,
    It can pierce through dust no matter how thick. dylan

  4. #4
    Full Member heisje's Avatar
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    Apparently the Networks, for many reasons that are obvious to most, are not ready and willing to clean up their act.

    Fair enough.

    After all has been said and done, more has been said than done.

    LinkShare's efforts have gone a long way, but in my books theft is still theft, and no two ways about it.
    An important poll in ABW last week has demonstrated that the mood has turned ugly, and the affiliate community has opted to resolve this matter in a crystal clear, total and definite way.

    http://abw.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&...9&m=2066027771

    Whitewash?
    thanks, but no, thanks . . . .

    the time is now over, the participants have had their chance - and they have flanked it.
    now, they should be ready to face the consequences - because we in the affiliate community (that numbers over one million) are totally fed up.



    .

  5. #5
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    Stephen

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Our belief is that their "code of conduct" document only solves a PR problem and, even in that regard, it is vague and does not go far enough <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Frankly Stephen I am not concerned with how LinkShare addresses the problem, I am concerned with how the industry, as a whole, addresses the problem. That was the purpose behind the Code of Conduct.

    LinkShare, for whatever reason(s) (and I respect your right to withdraw) choose to extract themselves from the talks and discussions.

    Understand that I (and others) are more interested in supporting a Code of Conduct that has far reaching implications and not just one particular network. I do not see envision other companies adopting the LinkShare Addendum, because the Addendum is Linkshare and not the communities'.

    In the world of performance marketing one network is only a small slice of the overall pie. The overall numbers are not controlled by LinkShare or even BeFree, CJ, or Performics. It is an age-old process that has been around since time and we all are stewards to this.

    In conclusion- I support LinkShare as a strong player in our industry, but I feel that it is more important that we tackle problems on a unified front as an industry and to me that front starts with a simple Code of Conduct.

    best regards,
    Wayne

    Wayne Porter
    V.P. Product Development
    AffTrack LLC.
    http://www.afftrack.com
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    Get a free two-week trial use code ABWEB at RevTrends.com

  6. #6
    Full Member heisje's Avatar
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    .



    "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
    (16th century proverb)



    .

  7. #7
    Member mrmerchant's Avatar
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    So... if I understand smesser correctly, Linkshare has an addendum with real teeth - which it had hoped it could use as a baseline approach/document. Fair enough and, candidly, savvy... damn bold. So, Linkshare today claims that it has the right to selectively enforce ("working with these technology players") the shark bite. Fair enough, again; however, if it's all about "working with" these turkeys then isn't that doggone near the same as what the other 3 are now doing via the "code of conduct" that is now being attacked as little more than a PR ploy? I'm sorry if I'm forcing too much logic onto the scene here but this seems fairly obvious to me. There's a clear contradition. Networks believe in inclusion and exclusion when necessary... when they deem necessary. Trouble is, they never deem it necessary to exclude. C'mon now guys, how old are we?!

    This mindless chatter is a waste of my time and an insult to my intelligence. If I'm wrong on any of my logic, I will gladly eat my words and offer an appology. Someone just step up and show me where I'm off base. Someone show me how this is not a complete farce.

    The recap:
    * Linkshare offers its addendum; it means business (has teeth)
    * Linkshare agrees to pull the industry together... meet and discuss these issues as a group so as to develop a unified set of rules for affiliates to follow
    * Linkshare walks away from the talks (for whatever reason - it's moot)
    * CJ, BF, Performics introduce their code of conduct
    * Linkshare states that this is a PR ploy and doesn't go far enough
    * Linkshare is accused of not enforcing their existing addendum for last 6 months or so
    * Linkshare states that it has the right to selectively inforce based on its interest in inclusion
    * Linkshare takes full credit for creating change among affiliates in question and boasts that everyone who matters has signed

    Anyone want to step up to the plate?

  8. #8
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    You do have a nice site MrMerchant

    Sales are everywhere, Sales are mine.

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I guess Mrmerchant is saying to Stephen ..sign the PR piece and add the teeth to it for your own swimming poll full of commission sharks. If any merchants leave LS over that pro-active move then I say good riddence. If you can't live without feeding off the traffic and pre-sell of others then your not allowed to fix the game's outcome from the sidelines.

    Seems like the Net has added the Battle of the Bots to the Eyeball Wars. The moment Microsoft jumps into the frey, after enduring service support call complaints over BHO browser crashes and locked Windows systems from their resellers, they can make it get real nasty overnight. Service pack 3 could easily disable every damn BHO app leaving the freeloading parasites all in chapter 7.

    The busy beavers are tearing up the dams and weeds are flying from gardens as we speak. Remember merchants affiliate do poor over the stats at yearend and plant next years crop in January. If you allowed shuffling of prized affiliates commissions to the BHO players then you get taken off the A-list with your brand languishing on the bottom on non-traffic pages. Don't be surprised if it takes a upfront fee to get back on the ABW A-list

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Service pack 3 could easily disable every damn BHO app leaving the freeloading parasites all in chapter 7.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's a nice dream [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] unfortunately, if they did that, it would no doubt be so they could implement their own version for MSN [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    You expect Bill Gates to be less greedy then these folks..
    "That's a nice dream unfortunately, if they did that, it would no doubt be so they could implement their own version for MSN"

    At least he'd follow through on his promise to donate 100,000 Port-A-Lets to India for the programming effort.

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?


  12. #12
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Funny you should say that Mike since I downloaded e-bates my machine has siezed up I don't know how many times and I have to reboot every time. I did notice it seizes dreamweaver on a regular basis, I have to close e-bates when I am using dreamweaver.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> browser crashes and locked Windows systems <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Gordon ..funny is if you try ebates together with gator and WhenU and throw in KaZZaa to give Windows a real belly ache. Remember what I said in earlier posts that 42% of all warranty system repairs were traced to damn spyware/Adware and viruses costing the computer industry millions. You can bet their is some pressure for Microsoft to restrict unlicenced activeX access to their browser interface.

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?


  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager
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    I don't see what the big deal is...

    LinkShare is taking an agressive stance. They support the code of conduct but have publicly stated that they want to take it to the next level, and they are doing so.

    That makes sense. I support the code of conduct, because it's a good first step, but it defintely needs more teeth. It's a bit like admitting guilt - now all the affiliate networks agree there is a problem. LinkShare not only agrees that there is a problem, but now they are actively taking steps to solve the problem.

    Other networks seem to be taking a more hands-off, PR approach. They agree it's a problem, but I'm not sure what they are doing about it.

    just my 2 cents...

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  15. #15
    Full Member heisje's Avatar
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    .

    if we concentrate targeting LinkShare, it is the wrong target, at the moment. they have chosen to be way front and we better not forget this.

    BUT,
    are the way front in "Good Public Relations" or are they way front in "Implementation"?.
    personally, since they are very slow in implementation I get the gut feeling that they are just way front in "Good Public Relations".

    even so, in this dilemma I have resolved to give LinkShare the benefit of the doubt, most definitely, and target relentlessly the ones that have demonstrated that they have no intention of ceasing to defraud affiliates from their earned income and infringing on their copyright, and their conspiratorial allies.

    parasites inevitably shall go they way of Napster and LinkShare shall be vilified for timely realising this.

    other forms of promotion through software may possibly survive, but solely the ones that do not infringe on copyright - and these shall have eventually limited overall effect. they shall be capable of pulling only limited traffic on their own, a fraction of what they are doing now .

    without infringing on copyright "Technology Providers" cannot have any significance in the long run.



    .

  16. #16
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    heisje I hope you don't have to compute every day to work ..From: Wartena, Netherlands - Athens, Greece

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?


  17. #17
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    I loathe Linksnare. Personally, I think it to be a dodgy operation. I have had far too many inexplicable instances of simple "failure to perform" for it to be anything else. Either their is infrastructure set up within Linksnare to promote this end, or their is blatant incompetence and/or a lackadaisical attitude toward the tracking of leads and/or payment. I wish they would be "bought out".

    Under their current leadership, I know I will never make any sizable sums of money from them. They however have snatched from myself as if I was a working girl who turned her back to put her dress back on, and had $100.00 snatched from her purse....as I have made the mistake of "giving it a shot again" too many times via them for tasty looking treats...as I really wish someone else would of snagged some of the merchants they hold!

    CJ and BeFree naturally would sign this agreement. I never have had any prolonged issues with either one. Linksnare is nothing but a prolonged issue. They ARE NOT an affiliate provider in the true sense of the word.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Sam Bay's Avatar
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    Why does Linkshare act like they are helpless against parasites?

  19. #19
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    Samboy said,"Why does Linkshare act like they are helpless against parasites? ".

    Birds of a Feather...

    The definition of "parasite" in this case in dictionary of the future might read like this:

    par·a·site

    1. Biology An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host."

    2. Practices as defined in the early Twenty-first century by an unsuccessful network that did not qualify to enter the Terran Market Guild in 2068, thus barred from future business by CJOPEN GalNet (mode 9) and the ABestGalnet™ Consortium.

    The term "parasite" became synonymous with Linksnare when the World Order returned the Cryogenically frozen founders to consciousness to stand Trial before the ABestGalnet™ Consortium Formal Council. This is due to the word "parasite" or term "parasitic function" appearing more than 5000 times on the formal indictment.

  20. #20
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I loathe Linksnare. Personally, I think it to be a dodgy operation. I have had far too many inexplicable instances of simple "failure to perform" for it to be anything else. Either there is infrastructure set up within Linksnare to promote this end, or their is blatant incompetence and/or a lackadaisical attitude toward the tracking of leads and/or payment. I wish they would be "bought out".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Don, I would love to be the LinkShare merchant that made you a believer. I’ve looked over a few of your posts and you seem to always be down on LinkShare. So, I’d like to help out. Please give me a ring at 801-947-3119 during the day, or email me your contact information so I can contact you. I’m sure there are ways we can work together, if we aren’t already. LinkShare is not the enemy. I’m pretty sure we can do well for you.

    Thanks,

    Shawn Schwegman
    Overstock.com
    801-947-3119
    shawn@overstock.com

  21. #21
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SamBay:
    Why does Linkshare act like they are helpless against parasites?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Linkshare did not?

    How soon we forget Wurldmedia!?!?!?! - That was more than action ... that was a REAL result and there are more!

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  22. #22
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    Sure Shawn,
    I'll give you a ring. If you have not heard from me by tomorrow's afternoon do please give myself a call at 888-682-0247.

  23. #23
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don, I would love to be the LinkShare merchant that made you a believer...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They could start by paying us the $520 tab they owe us for the past year and a half.

    Till then, Don's right, they are just another parasite.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  24. #24
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    Damn! Sorry I have been moving the past two days and missed this enlightening thread.

    While most of you know where I stand on this issue, I will be happy to reiterate since I am finally online again.

    I believe that enforcement is key to any agreement, addendum, code of conduct or whatever you wish to call it as it pertains to keeping affiliate dollars in those selfsame affiliate pockets - instead of being siphoned off by the unscrupulous.

    I believe that the LinkShare addendum is the only one that offers enforcement as part and parcel of the agreement itself. The Code of Conduct, while it reads very well, makes me think of a jaywalking law on the books in a town of 100 with a single street and no stoplights. Sorry, but something that might have been good for the general populace' but enforceable - hardly.

    Don Steitz and AffJus... Both of you continually offer your rant toward LS. I have read your, mainly ridiculous, statements for years. AffJus, of that $500+ that you claim is owed to you by LS, just how much of that is due to the fact that your pitiful excuse for sales didn't meet minimums? Or, was it because the merchant took to their heels and left everyone holding the bag?

    Wayne, I'm still holding out hope that you will come to your senses soon.

    MrMerchant, you are a hopeless case as it pertains to to the network providers. Your outdated numbers that you continue to sell to your merchant contacts belie the fact that you really have little clue what is actually happening within the providers themselves. BTW, while the numbers that Wayne shares with you might give you some clue - factually, AffTrack is also limited in scope as it pertains to the overall picture.

    No opinions here folks - just facts...

    Obstinatedon

    You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  25. #25
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obstinatedon:
    Damn! Sorry I have been moving the past two days and missed this enlightening thread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe next time only take 1 Exlax square [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

    Now get back to work... we can't handle it without your words of wisdom.

    Allen

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