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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    After getting pounded with reversals using them at SAS, I just totaled up the damage (So Far) for the month of Oct at CJ. They will have over 50% reversal rate with me. Right now the stats stand at;

    Total sales for OCT - 68

    Good Sales = 16

    Reversed Sales = 36

    Pending Sales = 16

    Once again I guess it comes down to live and learn. I still never heard anything back from BuyCostumes on any of my replys about the 10% and incentive bonuses
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  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador Grumpy's Avatar
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    Packster try and direct your email to:

    Jill Stolt [jill@buyseasons.com]

    Diana Krohn, the previous affiliate director, was fantastic when it came to answering emails but, ALAS, she left rather suddenly much to my dismay. It did take Jill a few days to reply to one of my questions but at least I did get one.

    You sure had a rough time with Costumeman - sorry about that . I experienced something similar with them last year so I left them off my Halloween promotion this year. Something just seems fishy with all those reversals.

  3. #3
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    I have the exact same situation. 60% sales have been returned.

    I am about to delete their data also.

    Once a year you sell costumes and then 60% sales reversed. Bad Bad Bad
    Thanks
    Asif

  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I could tell from the lack of Holloween costume AM's coming here and pitching their programs in August and Sept this would be a dead issue to push. I didn't put up a single special link to costumes or Holloween yard displays etc. If Holloween sales happened it was due to the merchants own on site promotions. Those merchants who are so reliant on one main short seasonal sales cycle have to much incentive to turn off reporting, spam the serps, spam their user base and hit the on/off reporting button.

    Let the merchant AM's advertising mindset devise Holloween themed sales on their own sites or work on mini showcase product creatives, not taking up much affiliates time for a quick impact showcase. I used to spend lots of time turning my Cybermall into a Holloween themed look with artwork, banners etc. Got whacked every year with reversals or triggered the BHO's on the keywords.

    Let the PPCSE crowd have at them or demand the honest ones come early to ABW and take the heat with real posting of network wide conversion stats. Till then their just a once a year plague of Locuses.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  5. #5
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    Same here. Most reason stated was "Can't Ship Out". Have removed all links and dropped.

    Tami

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I got this merchant up late and only on one site. I could have easily tripled the sales. I cannot understand why this merchant would be willing to not have enough stock and lose all these sales.
    I am posting this because I think it speaks better than saying how much percentage and so forth. Here is what it looks like for people who do not see what we see.

    Locked 10/26/04 07:32.5 AM 31.96 $4.79
    Locked 10/26/04 01:31.1 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/23/04 06:38.3 PM 17.98 $2.70
    Locked 10/23/04 07:21.5 PM 59.99 $9.00
    Locked 10/23/04 07:21.5 PM 59.99 $9.00
    Locked 10/23/04 07:02.1 PM 59.99 $9.00
    Locked 10/22/04 07:36.6 PM 24.9 $3.73
    Locked 10/22/04 09:00.5 AM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/20/04 06:38.1 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/20/04 05:07.5 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/20/04 01:40.4 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/20/04 12:00.2 AM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/20/04 10:16.5 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/20/04 12:06.4 PM 69.98 $10.50
    Locked 10/19/04 09:12.2 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/19/04 08:25.4 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/19/04 08:25.4 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/19/04 01:19.1 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/19/04 06:52.2 PM 39.8 $5.90
    Locked 10/19/04 08:43.6 AM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/18/04 06:07.3 PM 14.99 $2.25
    Locked 10/18/04 08:15.3 AM 23.97 $3.60
    Locked 10/18/04 02:06.1 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/18/04 07:31.1 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/18/04 06:20.3 PM 99.99 $15.00
    Locked 10/17/04 09:35.2 PM 29.98 $4.50
    Locked 10/17/04 09:35.2 PM 29.98 $4.50
    Locked 10/17/04 02:06.4 AM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/16/04 09:25.2 PM 19.95 $2.99
    Locked 10/16/04 12:41.1 PM 24.99 $3.75
    Locked 10/16/04 06:46.2 PM 30.98 $4.65
    Locked 10/15/04 05:55.0 PM 29.98 $4.50
    Locked 10/15/04 07:19.2 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/15/04 04:50.2 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/15/04 03:47.4 PM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/15/04 03:42.5 PM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/15/04 10:43.3 AM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/15/04 03:44.4 PM 44.89 $6.73
    Locked 10/15/04 05:47.5 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/15/04 11:53.0 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/15/04 06:07.3 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/15/04 11:35.0 PM 500.82 $75.12
    Locked 10/14/04 02:41.1 PM 14.99 $2.25
    Locked 10/14/04 05:28.2 PM 19.99 $3.00
    Locked 10/14/04 08:46.3 PM 27.97 $4.20
    Locked 10/14/04 08:55.1 AM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/14/04 01:55.1 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/14/04 02:10.4 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/14/04 12:10.1 PM 64.94 $9.74
    Locked 10/14/04 10:09.4 PM 79.98 $12.00
    Locked 10/13/04 02:15.5 PM 14.99 $2.25
    Locked 10/13/04 10:07.5 PM 29.95 $4.49
    Locked 10/13/04 08:08.2 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/13/04 05:21.2 PM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/13/04 03:10.2 PM 39.99 $6.00
    Locked 10/13/04 08:51.2 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/13/04 05:27.2 AM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/13/04 02:48.5 PM 79.98 $12.00
    Locked 10/11/04 07:36.2 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Locked 10/11/04 11:14.3 AM 56.97 $8.55
    Locked 10/10/04 08:51.3 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/10/04 06:07.1 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/9/04 12:54.4 PM 389.26 $58.39
    Locked 10/8/04 06:20.2 PM 34.99 $5.25
    Locked 10/8/04 06:34.5 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Locked 10/7/04 02:43.6 PM 39.95 $5.99
    Locked 10/4/04 12:35.6 PM 49.99 $7.50
    Total $530.82

    Pending 10/28/04 01:14.5 PM 19.99 $3.00
    Total $3.00

    Processing 10/3/04 03:04.1 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Total $4.50

    VOIDED 10/28/04 05:31.1 PM 24.99 $3.75
    VOIDED 10/27/04 04:09.1 PM 24.99 $3.75
    VOIDED 10/26/04 10:01.6 AM 19.95 $2.99
    VOIDED 10/26/04 10:17.6 PM 49.99 $7.50
    VOIDED 10/25/04 11:14.3 PM 11.98 $1.80
    VOIDED 10/25/04 11:41.1 AM 34.99 $5.25
    VOIDED 10/25/04 01:31.3 PM 39.95 $5.99
    VOIDED 10/23/04 06:17.4 PM 34.99 $5.25
    VOIDED 10/23/04 10:04.6 PM 99.88 $14.98
    VOIDED 10/22/04 10:11.1 PM 11.99 $1.80
    VOIDED 10/22/04 11:15.5 PM 12.98 $1.95
    VOIDED 10/22/04 04:52.5 PM 34.99 $5.25
    VOIDED 10/22/04 09:39.3 PM 49.95 $7.49
    VOIDED 10/20/04 06:40.1 PM 14.94 $2.24
    VOIDED 10/20/04 04:56.2 PM 24.99 $3.75
    VOIDED 10/20/04 11:14.3 AM 29.95 $4.49
    VOIDED 10/20/04 06:34.2 AM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/19/04 11:57.6 PM 12.98 $1.95
    VOIDED 10/19/04 09:17.4 PM 19.95 $2.99
    VOIDED 10/19/04 05:29.3 AM 19.99 $3.00
    VOIDED 10/19/04 05:26.6 AM 19.99 $3.00
    VOIDED 10/18/04 01:53.3 PM 14.95 $2.24
    VOIDED 10/18/04 11:57.5 PM 19.95 $2.99
    VOIDED 10/18/04 09:09.6 PM 25.99 $3.90
    VOIDED 10/18/04 02:50.3 PM 29.99 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/18/04 03:35.5 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/18/04 02:19.2 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/18/04 10:15.5 PM 59.99 $9.00
    VOIDED 10/18/04 11:19.1 PM 109.98 $16.50
    VOIDED 10/17/04 10:30.5 AM 19.98 $3.00
    VOIDED 10/17/04 09:21.5 PM 29.99 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/17/04 11:22.5 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/17/04 08:31.6 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/17/04 01:12.2 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/17/04 01:54.2 PM 84.97 $12.75
    VOIDED 10/17/04 11:31.3 PM 99.99 $15.00
    VOIDED 10/16/04 02:19.5 AM 29.98 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/16/04 12:38.3 PM 34.99 $5.25
    VOIDED 10/15/04 02:25.2 PM 29.98 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/15/04 02:25.2 PM 29.98 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/15/04 09:26.0 AM 29.98 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/15/04 11:51.6 AM 49.99 $7.50
    VOIDED 10/15/04 07:02.1 PM 76.93 $11.54
    VOIDED 10/15/04 05:16.2 PM 119.95 $17.99
    VOIDED 10/14/04 02:16.4 PM 29.99 $4.50
    VOIDED 10/14/04 08:01.5 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/14/04 06:12.2 PM 39.99 $6.00
    VOIDED 10/14/04 02:25.0 PM 49.99 $7.50
    VOIDED 10/14/04 12:04.5 PM 64.94 $9.74
    VOIDED 10/14/04 12:30.0 PM 79.98 $12.00
    VOIDED 10/13/04 09:16.3 PM 24.99 $3.75
    VOIDED 10/13/04 02:14.3 PM 25.99 $3.90
    VOIDED 10/13/04 05:11.5 PM 26.43 $3.96
    VOIDED 10/13/04 09:27.4 PM 49.99 $7.50
    VOIDED 10/12/04 07:54.1 PM 14.98 $2.25
    VOIDED 10/11/04 01:14.0 PM 29.99 $4.50
    Total $331.43

    Of course, this means SAS is losing money, too.

    I am still selling this product. There are 57 pending sales with a commission value of $533.08 for this month. I don't know how much of that I will ever see. But I sent the sales and I deserve it all.

    I honsetly don't know what to do. Getting paid for half the sales I actually generate adds up but this is rediculous.

    All I know is that there is another merchant and as soon as they get together a data feed, I will have to reconsider my use of FrankBee. While $530.82 is certainly nice and welcome, last month I sent sales that should have earned $869.75 for me. I did the work and should receive compensation. They need to get their act together and be ready on their end. Too bad because I could really sell this stuff year around.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Ssanf, I'm just curious as to how you got the stats like that Is there a report I am missing??? Thanks!

    Mike, I hear some of what you are saying but for me anyways, Halloween is one of my top seasons so it is well worth the time spent on it. Last year it seemed like costumeman had it together a little more than before. This year they completely lost my confidence in them. This isn't so much about sales being reversed but about sales being lost. If they pulled their products then most likely the visitors would of boughten something that was in stock or at least would of checked out another merchant. My total sales reversed from costumeman for the season will be close to 300 sales. Those lost sales never should of happened.

    Grumpy, Thanks I think that is the email I was given by another ABW member and that I used. I might try looking to see if I can come up with a phone number and give them a buzz.
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  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Naw, you aren't missing anything. I just cut and pasted the tables into Front page, deleted a bunch of stuff, pasted the results into Excel and sorted out the report.

    The SAS report deletes the sales that got voided because they aren't really credited in the first place. So, I had to figure another way to see the stats.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  9. #9
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    are people buying costumes going trick or treating then returning the item the next day. Its a legit question
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I don't think so. I think they just don't stock the items that sell.

    They don't want to get stuck with unsold inventory so they way under stock. If they run out of an item, our tough luck. If another affiliate grabs a customer and they run out, when you send them a customer for the same item, you are shit out of luck.

    Every item I sold caused Packy or someone else to lose a sale.

    There is some kind of basic flaw in their business plan.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  11. #11
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    Maybe they run out of an item, send an email asking the customer to call them and have someone on the phone sell them a similar product via a new transaction and void the affiliate sale.
    This is indeeed what it looks like to me. I had some sales with them and my reversal rate was similar.
    I can't imagine them simply flushing this percentage of their sales, especially in your case Ssanf, because it looks like you sell many of a few select items.


  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    scohaz, it's a matter of keeping items on the site when there aren't any in stock and not putting the out of stock notice up soon enough. Also, a matter of taking orders hoping to fulfill the order. All in all it's just a matter of being unorganized IMO.
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  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador Grumpy's Avatar
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    I can hardly believe SSanf's stats - it's disgusting. Seems to me they are just using their affiliates to generate the sales and then voiding them so as not to pay the commissions. Besides, if they are out of stock of an item they should update their site accordingly like other merchants do. That way people wouldn't order "out of stock" items. I had well over 200 sales for Buycostumes.com in October, and not one single reversal - in fact I've NEVER had a reversal from them! This speaks volumes in my book.

  14. #14
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Fright catalog sells pretty much the same stuff but they pay 5% less. So, if they have any reversals at all, I would be making no more than with costume man at 15.00%!

    Dang, you can't win!

    However, if I switch to costumeman at CJ, I might soon qualify for free data feeds at CJ which could be a consideration if I wanted free CJ data feeds.

    As if I don't have enough work with SAS data feeds.

    If costumeman is taking leads from the ones that they have voided and re-selling them another product on the phone or re-selling them in any other way and cutting us out of the picture, I am so pissed!!!!!

    I would like a straight answer to this question!

    I, too, find it hard to believe that we would send them all this targeted traffic from people with their credit cards out and ready to buy and that they just would let that traffic slip through their fingers and sell them nothing.

    Good grief, at the very least, if it were me, I would, at least, send them to my competitor and get 15% off THAT sale! (And, they would probably get 20% for volume.)

    If they do that, we should be paid $2.00 for the lead on ALL voided sales!

    So, what gives here? This does not make any sense. Costumeman should have been able to make a commission for themselves of, at least, another $400 by doing nothing more than referring my voided sales to a place where the customer could, in fact, buy the product! Half of that should have been mine!

    If they are just tossing out the leads, I would strongly suggest they figure out something else by next year. If they are profiting from them and not compensating us, that is wrong and needs immediate changing.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    All of the customer's privacy info is a gold mine for these seasonal merchants. Booking and fulfilling sales is secondary as the list sells all year long. I don't refer my savvy shoppers to any high reversal merchant.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    Not to jinx us, but we had a minimal number of reverals for Halloween; our conversion rate was exceptional (at least for us) and we made a very nice chunk of change (again, at least for us).

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Not to jinx myself either, but maybe it's the costumes you're pushing, I've had only about a 10 or 15% reversal rate.

  18. #18
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Grumpy:
    I can hardly believe SSanf's stats - it's disgusting. Seems to me they are just using their affiliates to generate the sales and then voiding them so as not to pay the commissions. Besides, if they are out of stock of an item they should update their site accordingly like other merchants do. That way people wouldn't order "out of stock" items. I had well over 200 sales for Buycostumes.com in October, and not one single reversal - in fact I've NEVER had a reversal from them! This speaks volumes in my book.


    Same here - I have never had any problem with Buycostumes! Sure, the commish is a little less but at least they don't reverse and I do get paid on a timely basis.

    But, every year, I see the same complaints about this other costume place. Makes you wonder why people will go through this year after year...

    I am soooo glad I never used them!
    Ebudae


  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    quote:
    But, every year, I see the same complaints about this other costume place. Makes you wonder why people will go through this year after year...


    Ebudae,

    It's kind of like Zappos I suppose. I use them even though I know there is a high reversal rate. With Zappos I can pretty much count on about 35% reversal every month give or take a little but I make more money with them in the overall even after reversals.

    The same use to apply with costumeman.com. I kind of knew what to expect, or at least had an idea about the reversal percentage give or take a bit. Even after all the reversals with costumeman I still made out better than if I sent all my traffic to other merchants IMO. I'm still waiting to chill out a bit before I pick the phone up and give them a call to see what the hell happened but I am pretty sure what happened is the unorganized way things were run.

    I did finaly get ahold of Jill at Buycostumes and she was going to forward my concerns over to someone else. She was very pleasant and I'll see how that all goes. I think when Bucostumes offered the 10% and incentives something went wrong when some of us exepted the new terms and they never took. I also thought that any increase in commission automatically takes place. I could be wrong on that though.
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  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Let us know about buycostumes Packy, I emailed them about the commission increase and they kinda blew me off, like oh well.

  21. #21
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    maybe it's the costumes you're pushing
    Uh, yes, of course, I have to push certain kinds of costumes for them to be of any real use to my market. Be real, you don't wear a fireman costume to a Witches' Ball unless you are expecting some fanatics of another persuasion to show up!

    Maybe, they will see those sales come in and get stock enough to cover the need. Perhaps, I took them by surprise.

    That is assuming my assumptions about what I am selling are correct. The continuing sales make me think I am though.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador Packy's Avatar
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    Qball,
    quote:
    Let us know about buycostumes Packy, I emailed them about the commission increase and they kinda blew me off, like oh well.

    Will do! I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't a CJ problem. When I looked in my act it showed program terms 10/18. I've been with Buycostumes for a long time so I'm wondering if when we exepted the new terms when it was offered if something didn't set like it should of. AT first I was thinking I missed it but the more I think the more I know I saw it and accepted the increase.
    The Answer to the New York Tax Law - Repeal, REPEAL, REPEAL -

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