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  1. #1
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    I know I am beating a dead horse here but I have about had it! Yes I do make decent money with CJ, as does many other people but when I have days like today it really makes a person think. I have had a record day for targeted traffic. I have actually had double my normal traffic so far today (knock on wood). The funny thing is that I haven't had a sale since 7:45 a.m. at CJ. I called them and the lady I talked to in publisher support said she didn't think there was a problem. Not a problem my ass...

    Core

  2. #2
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    quote:
    I haven't had a sale since 7:45 a.m. at CJ.


    Things seem to be working o.k. for us today for some reason. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] Traffic seems to be fairly 'normal' for a Monday...

    The one strange thing that I've noticed today is that the sales seem to be in 'bunches' (recorded within a short time span)... I've never noticed this before, and checking back this has never happened before. Either this is a really wonky day, or there's been some coding changes made somewhere.

    FWIW.

    CodeJockey.

  3. #3
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    It's happening again today ... at least for me it is ...
    No transactions recorded at CJ since the early after noon yesterday ,and some links are not even registering impressions AGAIN !

    I can't take this anymore, especially since they keep getting new advertisers, I think "Great!" , But then I pause and think again ... What good is it if they can not track reliably ... So I don't even try anymore , I have just about given up on CJ,
    and the other affiliate networks are no better.

    No wonder why I am just about ready to give up on affiliate marketing all together, and work on building my own little online business .( Have no idea what that will be just yet, but there are a few good ideas floating around so far)

    Whether we make money or not does not only depend on our ability to draw targeted traffic to our sites, but too many factors beyond our control . Think about it , (I know you all have )

    We have to hope for and rely upon ...

    The accurate and consistant tracking reliabilty of the different networks ,

    The honesty and integrity of strangers that we associate with .

    And, with the recent turn of events at GOTO, which I feel have basically thrown me up against a brick wall forcing me to make a decission to going from being one of the outcasts (affiliate advertiser , unable to advertise truly targeted links due to new strict relevancy standards ), "or"

    Become truly my own boss, and be free from those outside factors and gain the ability to advertise whatever I choose to sell, place my self #1 on Yahoo, AOL, Alta Vista, etc., for key targeted traffic, and take full advantage of Overture's new partnerships !


    Change is a tough thing, but at least for me, I think the time for change has come .


    The time I spend looking for new links, checking stats, getting aggravated , jumping hoops and updating things when new programs come and go , blah, blah, blah... I could put that same time and effort into just building a simple , professional looking site, sell ONE product, and concentrate on that alone .

    Okay, so now I'm thrown up against a brick wall to decide, guess all I need is for one of those bricks to actually fall on my head before I act [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Lisa

  4. #4
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    My $.02.

    I've been going back over some of the postings, especially the ones that comment on CJ not tracking properly, for a number of reasons.

    The first reason is because of prior postings on the old CJU that said that CJ had a definite problem with tracking sales. We had wanted to expand our sites to include products, but the fairly rabid nature of the postings basically implied to us that there was as problem. We'd used Amazon links fairly successfully, and they were very lucrative, much more so than what CJ was paying us.

    We finally decided to bite the bullet and placed CJ product links. At first, the traffic was slow but we did make some sales; enough to keep us interested. We placed more links which resulted in more sales. So we were sitting back sorta wondering what all of this talk about crappy CJ tracking was all about. At this point, we decided that we were either going to make it or not, and totally committed the sites to sales links. The cash continued to climb (especially Amazon).

    In the meantime, our ISP was calling us, because our server was overloading constantly, and he wanted to move it up the line to a backbone connection. We were leery about this for a number of reasons, but eventually agreed. Him and The Boys moved it on a Sunday morning at 3:00 a.m. We were downtime for three hours.

    The result? Our traffic doubled. Immediately. When we plugged all of this stuff into our custom reporting, the CJ numbers lock-stepped with all of the others and recorded our traffic increase. Based on what we had read about the crappy tracking, this didn't make any sense to us, because from our point of view, it certainly appeared that CJ was tracking properly. Oh, ya.... sales went up. Amazon zoomed. LinkShare and BeFree were all over the place, so if anyone has a problem, it's them.

    So basically, over the last couple of months, I've seen no evidence of the claims that CJ has an inability to track either sales or impressions properly. (Ya, there's some wonky stuff in the numbers, but...)

    In Lisa's case, based on what I've seen, I wouldn't finger CJ as the most likely problem. If you think about it a bit more, why would impression tracking all of a sudden stop? The only time ours has stopped is because our server decided to hissy fit and stop serving pages, or our ISP changed something that p issed off the server.

    I'm not defending. I'm merely pointing out what we've seen.

    And, as a benchmark, our server serves up somewhere between 150,000 to 200,000 page views a day. (We go low, the ISP goes high; he tracks robots, we don't.)

    FWIW.

    CodeJockey

  5. #5
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    Code Jockey -

    What exactly do you mean by
    "The only time ours has stopped is because our server decided to hissy fit and stop serving pages, or our ISP changed something that p issed off the server."

    What sort of server side changes do you think could cause this to happen ?

    Don't you think it's possible within the CJ network for some glitches or errors to cause certain affiliate ID#s to stop tracking /recording impressions while others may not be affected by the same glitch ?

    It makes no sense for one CJ link on my main page to record impressions today, while three others do not even record 1 impression, when they did yesterday - how can this be a server problem on my end ???

    I just don't get it !

    Lisa

  6. #6
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    I know a trusted 3rd party that is going to get a phone call here in a couple of minutes. Not only for this crap but for the fact that a merchant payed them for extended transaction and reversed transactions November 21st and CJ has yet to add the money to my account.

  7. #7
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    I am getting record traffic to my site according to the stats on the server. Its a third higher than every other day this month.

    What are my CJ stats? 158 hits and one lousy sale. The sale only came in just now because CJ knew I was thinking about posting a cheesed-off message.

    My hits should be around 300 at this time of day for the traffic I'm showing. I'll be interested to see what happens when Crucial upload their data for today.


    f

    OK. I just took a closer look at the stats. Impressions aren't tracking. There are some great CTRs - up to 2.00.

    If impressions aren't even tracking I'm supposed to believe sales are?

    [ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: francis ]

  8. #8
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well if your thinking of starting up a copy cat affiliate network ...don't copy BeFree's biz plan.

    Annual published YTD results for the one who claims to be profitable and the leader of the pack. ( 4 quarters of bleed in Y2001)

    Net Income Applicable To Common Shares (4th Qtr -$6,439,000) (3rd Qtr -$7,707,000) (2nd Qtr -$124,127,000) (1st Qtr. $18,220,000)

    170 million in losses and counting. Hell it's just a software ASP application and glorified banner server. I think they hope for a buy out from a portal like AOL before the milk runs dry on their 130 million dollar war chest. Golden parachutes anyone. Meanwhile we all want our commissions they seem to be holding onto much longer to pad this QTR's figures. They brag in every press release thta they offer merchants the lowest cost advertising campaign with high ROI since advertisers can delay payouts for a average of 6-9 months from start date. Affiliate friendly my ass...as this turns into a pump and dump stock game.

  9. #9
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    I just got off the phone with CJ who still claims ZoneLD still hasn't paid them. I have a conference call scheduled between all of us here in a little bit. This is going to be fun!

  10. #10
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    quote:
    What sort of server side changes do you think could cause this to happen ?



    It hangs sometimes when I'm ftp'ing files, and that's been traced to a fault in the O/S.

    It also stops serving when the ISP screws around with his DNS server, or any of the switches fry themselves.. his backup systems don't recognize our IP number. It hasn't happened since the move to the backbone, but we got it 'constantly' when we were at the bottom of the food chain.

    quote:
    Don't you think it's possible within the CJ network for some glitches or errors to cause certain affiliate ID#s to stop tracking /recording impressions while others may not be affected by the same glitch ?



    O.k... I agree with this because I can't conclusively say it doesn't happen. But somewhere, sometime, it's bound to be spotted and corrected, if there is a fault. That's what software 'engineers' are trying to do when they ask all of these assinine questions, because invariably the faults form a pattern of some sort.

    Random quirks and random faults simply do not occur within software programs. They exist because someone programmed them that way. I worked on a real time parallel system a large number of years ago that started 'dropping' transactions. Not a lot, but enough to get the brass concerned about it. We knew the transactions were accepted and processed, but eventually were dropped from the systems. We managed to isolate a particular set of data that had a dropped transaction in it, and sat and watched each program step, until we actually spotted the problem, and that had to do with the 24-hour clocks we we're using. One of the jocks had made a coding change that basically said anything with a time of 1400 was an invalid transaction. Once we knew what to look for it was a snap to fix. But there was a pattern to it, and we just didn't recognize it.

    quote:
    impression, when they did yesterday - how can this be a server problem on my end ???


    Who knows? Network latency perhaps? Maybe your ISP doesn't have travel rights over the route, maybe. Maybe all of your customers are from England, which accounts for the shitty tracking.

    What you have to do is to eliminate the more obvious areas of problems. If your server is in, say, rural Pennsylvannia, then the likelihood of dropped transmissions is a lot higher than say, a server in NYC.

    To prove this theory, I'd make some arrangements with 'somebody' to host one or two pages of your site for a week or two and see if that makes any difference, preferably somewhere else in the country (like maybe the west coast, or down south of you). If the shitty tracking still occurs, then you've pretty well eliminated a server problem, and it'll give you a bit more ammo to whack CJ over the head with.

    The only other possibility that I can think of is your personal file at CJ is corrupted. Fix this by setting up a new account within your account manager and change the account numbers. You can also parallel watch the impressions this way.

    Might not cure all of the problems, but from my point of view, it'll eliminate most of them that they'll refer to.

    CodeJockey.

  11. #11
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    "If your server is in, say, rural Pennsylvannia, then the likelihood of dropped transmissions is a lot higher than say, a server in NYC."

    Now you've got me wondering. What's wrong with a server in "rural Pennsylvania?" I would think there would be just as many cheapo, dud servers in NYC...maybe even more!

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Now you've got me wondering. What's wrong with a server in "rural Pennsylvania?" I would think there would be just as many cheapo, dud servers in NYC...maybe even more!



    O.k... ya got me. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I wasn't very clear, was I?

    Let's say you have two servers. Hardware the same, O/S the same.

    The first one is in NYC with a direct backbone connection.

    The second one is located in Lower Rubber Boot, PA., which has a seasonal high population of 5,000. (We'll call this the Local Server). This server is on a leased line to a central server in Upper Rubber Boot, PA. (The Regional Server) The Upper Rubber Boot server is on a leased line to the Pennsylvannia Computing Center, which serves the whole state. The Pennsylvannia Computing Center is on a leased line to the East Coast Backbone....

    Anyways, I hope you get the picture...

    The point that I was trying to make was that the further away you are from a backbone connection, the more equipment that your request has to jump through. Each one of these pieces of equipment has a built-in delay factor. (Tiny, tiny, I admit, but a delay nevertheless.)

    If the delay is significant enough, and your visitor has a cable/dsl/t-line connection, then they could conceivably call a second page from your site, while the impression counts were still being served... maybe the second click will cut off six of your ten impressions counts. This 'could' account for the reason why impression counts aren't totally identical.

    It gets a bit more hazy when there's something wrong in the pipeline somewhere. Let's say the visitor (who lives in Seattle) would normally get to the Lower Rubber Boot server by routing: Seattle/Los Angeles/St. Louis/Chicago/East Coast Backbone/Pennsylvannia Computing Center/Upper Rubber Boot/Lower Rubber Boot. The return data reverses this path.

    Let's say Chicago just had a power outage, and the pipeline is broken. The St. Louis site tries to contact the East Coast Backbone by alternate routing, and eventually gets piped on: New Orleans/Atlanta/East Coast Backbone, etc.

    Every step of the way has a built in delay, and maybe, just maybe, by the time the CJ server is sending the impression count, the visitor is long-gone, and the CJ server is told not to send any more data to service this request. Instant wonky counts on impressions served.

    Probably not a really good technical explanation, but from our point of view we use the impression counts as a guideline, simply because they don't mean s**t in the overall scheme of events.

    CodeJockey.

  13. #13
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    It's amazing! The ZoneLD earnings were posted to my account in the past hour! It's really funny how I called CJ and they said that they had received NO money from ZoneLD to cover those transactions...

    Thank You ZoneLD!

    Core

  14. #14
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    You know what guys? I am going to end this thread. *****ing and complaining about CJ tracking is not going to get me, or anyone else anywhere. Not until we have proof anyway...
    Yes, Haiko blew the lid on Global Calling Card from IDT but that hasn't changed much except for the fact that he saved us at ABW a LOT of money on PPC advertising. Which reminds me... I received a letter from them today saying to take down links. What a joke! Damn Telecommunications Companies!

    Anyway, I am going to try to move on and focus my positive energy on creating new pages and diversifying them.

    Core

    [ 12-12-2001: Message edited by: Core ]

  15. #15
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    quote:
    It's amazing! The ZoneLD earnings were posted to my account in the past hour! It's really funny how I called CJ and they said that they had received NO money from ZoneLD to cover those transactions...


    Hmmmmm! Makes me wonder if Jackpot.com ever paid CJ. I'll have to try again and contact them. I could really use that money right about now.

  16. #16
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Core,

    Way to go!

    quote:
    I received a letter from them today saying to take down links. What a joke! Damn Telecommunications Companies!


    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Had to make them finally do it!

    I never got the email (I'm not an affiliate of IDT) can you please PM me the exact text.

    TY

    Haiko

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