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  1. #1

  2. #2
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Have you reported this formally to CJ and/or Akiva? If not, it will probably be gone before they see it.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Nature Boy's Avatar
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    You think that's bad, check out the index page. Definate site copying going on there. Even worse, he copied the merchants site.

    You may want to pass this along to Akiva.
    Scott
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls#!t
    Don't tell me that you'll do it... SHOW ME.
    Just because everyone else is drinking it is no reason for me to drink the KOOL-AID.

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador
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    "reported this formally to CJ "

    Why? What are they going to do about it?

    http://www.cheap-discount.netfirms.com/8518-25.html

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    quote:
    What are they going to do about it?



    one never knows, but they can't say they weren't warned.

    might even help, in the long run.

  6. #6
    Affiliate Manager swalker's Avatar
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    I'm trying to learn and figure out what is bad affiliate behavior. Please tell me what it is we are looking at? What should I be looking for? If you don't want to explain public please pm me.

    Sarah

  7. #7
    Newbie dtrenck's Avatar
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    Sarah,

    If you click on a product you'll notice that your browser redirects to the real merchant website via CJ without you clicking anything. That is a "forced click" (bad affiliate behavior).

    Bad affiliate behavior would also be copying the look and feel of the merchant site to this degree without their approval.

    - Dave

  8. #8
    Affiliate Manager swalker's Avatar
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    Thank you. I was just reading about forced clicks and I was trying to find a visual example. So, is luck the only way to find websites doing this?

    Sarah

  9. #9
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Finding them doesn't take luck...just Googling! datafeed spamming sleezeballs are a dime a dozen for every merchant who passes them out. The idea behind datafeeds is to make it easy for the merchant's AM to encourge SE spamming without actually condoning it...LOL.

    Poor Akiva got caught up in feed spamming because the feed spammers at ABW demanded it when Andy Rodreguez made it so popular. Once you have the feed script down the sleezeballs devise ways to stuff cookies and leapfrog the other SE spammers, while the good intentions of the honest AM gets shot in the process. No work necessary to maintain the copied site ...just work on the cookie stuffing and SE spamming tricks.

    Look at the source on any of this guys feed generated pages...

    what's with the top line ...

    <script language="javascript">
    <!--
    if (document.referrer && (document.referrer!='') && window.Image)
    {
    (new Image).src="http://redirect1.vip.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/referadd?spcl=1&et=3f7a8f22&catalog=collegefanfare&r=" + escape(document.referrer); }
    // -->
    </script>
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  10. #10
    I like traffic lights
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    I just caught a CJ affiliate injecting fake entries into my web server log file by failed proxying attempts.

    I guess he's hoping it'll somehow make his domain name show up somewhere.

    I myself consider it spamming. I wonder if the CJ house plans merchants would agree?

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Airstrip's Avatar
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    Question on forced clicks. If an affiliate builds PPC ads that when clicked on take you directly to that product on the merchants site, is that considered bad affiliate behavior or forced clicks?
    The best things in life are not things at all...

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Airstrip Maller:
    Question on forced clicks. If an affiliate builds PPC ads that when clicked on take you directly to that product on the merchants site, is that considered bad affiliate behavior or forced clicks?


    This will be a 50/50

    some don't look at it as bad and some look at it bad.

    I guess it's better to ask the merchants directly if they allow it or not!

    What COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commission
    Don't worry tracking is Infected

    Live life to the fullest, You only get 1 chance. Enjoy it while you can... Nothing last forever!

  13. #13
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by swalker:
    Thank you. I was just reading about forced clicks and I was trying to find a visual example. So, is luck the only way to find websites doing this?

    Sarah


    Another clue is often an astoundingly low conversion ratio (relative to sites which you know are "normal"). Some people truly can't sell water in the desert, but others have a bad CR because they are (intentionally) sending swarms of unqualified traffic.

    One other thing--remember that datafeeds are generally GOOD!!! Just because a few people abuse the tech doesn't make the feeds themselves bad.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    Hey don't expect much response.

    I sent Akiva a PM on December 11, 2003 about exactly this site.

    From my pm on Dec 11, 2003
    quote:
    Hey Akiva..

    Seems I'm actually delivering some decent sales your way now.

    Anyway, recently there has been some fuss about forced clicks, and here's a good one for you.

    http://www.sportsgear2.com/New-York-...e-Blanket.html

    1st.. I thought making a site *that* similar to SFF was a no-no?

    2nd.. the redirect?



    Pete



    Here was Akiva's response also on December 11, 2003 (paraphrased)
    quote:

    I will take care of this asap... thanks again!!

    Akiva Bergstrom
    Affiliate Partner Manager


  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador ToughTurkey's Avatar
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    Stuff like this has been going on with sportsfanfare since it's start!

    I brought the site http://www.hugesportsdeals.com up in May 2003 and nothing was done at all except the url was removed by Akiva in this thread: http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...323#3256078323


  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    Guys... I'm currently away and I just want to say that I have made several efforts over the past few months to contact the owner of the said sites. The site changed hands about 6 times in the past few months and is earning zero in commissions due to Google penalizations. I have sent several emails to the various site owners threatening removal from the program with no response. The reason why I haven't removed the account from the program is that once I do that, CJ does not give me access to the contact information. Everyone here knows that I am vigilant about this stuff and I stand up for affiliates. The site is under the same account shoppingsavvy.com - another site that does forced clicks and has been the subject of many threads here at ABW. Since the sites are earning zero commissions I feel that my efforts are better directed at affiliates that actually need my advice and help. Anyone here who knows me can vouch for my unwavering honesty in affiliate practices.

    I will be out for the next few days but will be back next week.
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

    Affiliate Marketing Solutions by affSolutions - Creator of the Product Showcase Creator

    Managed Programs: EssentialApparel.com (Join) | SportsFanfare.com (Join)


    Affiliates: Product Showcase Creator Directory | Merchants: License the Product Showcase Creator!

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Akiva's Avatar
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    TT: Hugesportsdeals.com earned $3.25 this month and does not respond to emails. One of the biggest problems in affiliate marketing that frustrates me and my clients is the non-response of requests to emails. Many affiliates brush off affiliate managers and the execs get pissed for one reason or another. It is extremely frustrating and is one reason why many affiliate managers don't want to deal with mom-and-pop affiliates - they just deal with the software apps that cannibalize all the traffic and ultimately bring more sales. I, however am not like that but there is only so much I can do other than hiring lawyers to police affiliate sites.
    Akiva Bergstrom | akiva@affsolutions.com | 718-871-8286

    Affiliate Marketing Solutions by affSolutions - Creator of the Product Showcase Creator

    Managed Programs: EssentialApparel.com (Join) | SportsFanfare.com (Join)


    Affiliates: Product Showcase Creator Directory | Merchants: License the Product Showcase Creator!

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Question on forced clicks. If an affiliate builds PPC ads that when clicked on take you directly to that product on the merchants site, is that considered bad affiliate behavior or forced clicks?


    It is more than a little ironic IMO that ppc ads where an affiliate pays as little as a penny on some search engines and a nickle in AdWords to get the right to have "accepted forced clicks" yet.... domain bound affiliates who pay for domains, hosting, in some cases datafeed access, develop html either by hand or with the "purchase" of a tool get absolutely no right to do a forced clicks by an ad on the same search results page. The serp result on the left side of the page that provides advertising for a merchant - NO NO NO - you can't do forced clicks. The ad on just to the right that provides advertising for a merchant - YES YES YES - forced clicks are fine!

    The ppc ad and the serp results could both say the same thing "Get coupons for xyz merchant" yet - they are treated completly differently in regard to forced clicks.

    Is the costs of hosting a web site along with all the other fees and time involved in providing markketing for a merchant not worth what a penny or a nickle buys for PPC folks with none of the domain related costs? The answer is clearly no pretty much across the board!

    The issue has been covered before here with Akiva in this blast from the past. http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...805#6736000805 Also, follow the poll link in the thread for some good followup as well.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador
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    Try this url

    http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tp...wpollresults=Y

    So clicking on a PPC ad is a forced click? Nonsense.

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well re-reading http://abw.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&...3656063805&p=2 proves to all that a handful of us can predict accurately that past and future Titanium Awards will always go to tricks for clicks spammers. The Browser BHO spammers attacking at the point of sale. The SE spammers and forced cookie tricksters who attack at the traffic source.
    Is the sole roll of an AM to corner the best spammers, with the networks double dipping blessings, and shove the domain bound value-add affiliates into garbage bags. My take is that's exactly what has happened over the last few years. One big FU to by the AM community to those affiliates who play by ethical rules and cater to conditioning shoppers ...before they click through to recommended merchant sites.

    Maybe the networks should run a MBA spamming school for AM's and affiliates. ABW could run a correspondence course for those who can only afford ebook classes.

    Notice how last year only a few of us were concerned about PPCSE spammers and cookie stuffers as we knew the friggin BHO's were morphing into drive-by and bundling warlords where task #1 was to infest/re-infest systems. Where does the shopper's demand for click value fit into this 2 prong spamming scheme? My bet is they will find out which Merchant AM's are behind monitizing trashing their systems and affiliates schemers that waste their precious time setting cookie traps.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador
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    quote:
    Hugesportsdeals.com earned $3.25


    I hope that none of the AM's that I *currently* (wink, wink) work with would ever post my stats in public, or otherwise share personal information about me.

  22. #22
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    1. There's nothing wring with PPC directly to merchant.

    One could argue that having an "eCommerce Mall" site that consists of mostly affiliate links and making it show up high in SERPs brings as little benefit to visitors (if not less) than PPC directly to merchant.

    2. Forced Clicks can be a legitimate tool to protect affiliate from keyword theft (i.e. merchant learning best converting keywords and bidding on them). Example: meta refresh.

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    More BS from a tricks for clicks playa called SmilingZee. Sure hope you go broke with your domainless PPCSE keyword spamming tricks.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

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