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  1. #1
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    What is the CJ's official communication regarding reversal of all sales by KB Toys/eToys (starting late November until january). I always thought merchants prepay at CJ. So CJ should have the commissions for all these sales at KB Toys escrow account already. Why were reveresed then? I never received any communication from CJ, KB Toys or eToys regarding this. Probably no one did.

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    You got an alert notice. Maybe you weren't quick enough to see the popup of a FC dealpool sock puppet flipping you the bird when you logged into Kbtoys/Etoys section at CJ during the Christmas rush.

    Mike & Charlie ...

    If they won't adopt and feed a bird ..flip them one! BBQ some Gator and remember to flush WhenU..

  3. #3
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    I would like to hear an official response too. This calls for a class action lawsuit against CJ. Never before has CJ screwed so many affiliates.

  4. #4
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    quote:
    Never before has CJ screwed so many affiliates.
    Well... Who was that other merchant two years ago that had that employment service and left everyone high and dry? I can't remember their name for sure and don't want to say the one on my mind in case I've got it wrong. Don't forget ebates either, I think we've been screwed in bulk more than once. What bugs me the most about etoys/kb is that they are still a merchant and have the balls to continue soliciting us to get them some sales. Yeah like that's gonna happen.

  5. #5
    Mama in Charge Anne's Avatar
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    I have been seriously ripped by kb, etoys, fao, zany, and right start, also lets not forget toysmart, they got me for the most (but they were not with CJ).

  6. #6
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    And I like how kbtoys just emailed everyone an alert for a special. Who in the heck is still thinking, wow! A kbtoys special, gotta put this up right away!!!

    Chet

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Reversals? Must be all those fraudulent sales you guys sent to them. Sounds like there was fraud in this here somewhere.

    But, don't worry about selling for them, now. CJ will protect you with that big fat escrow account.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I am still running them. If they are still listed as active within CJ, and are allowed to continue sending me new promotions to post via CJ mail, that must mean CJ is getting paid by them and so will I..I mean, CJ wouldn't keep an advertiser active if they couldn't pay would they??
    So CJ, I am gonna get my money owed, right, seeing as how you are still allowing them to be active..

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    CJ wouldn't keep an advertiser active if they couldn't pay would they??



    Oh, but I am sure they DO pay. CJ's monthly fees, that is.

    Failure to pay affiliates who provided services in good faith surely isn't good enough reason for termination. I wonder if they also reversed CJ's share of those sales. Do affiliates get paid concurrently with CJ for sales? Or, does CJ take their share from all the sales and if anything is left in the escrow, then pay affiliates? I would like to believe that a reversal for us is a reversal for CJ, but how would we ever know? I mean other than, "Todd said so," that is.

    I guess, we just have to rely on CJs integrity and the fact that they ALWAYS have our best interest at heart and of course, they want to be fair.

    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

  10. #10
    Affiliate/AM Moonlighter dflsports's Avatar
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    Basically all money owed affiliates before Jan 14th is gone due to the bankruptcy. All money earned after that is suppose to be payable. (My wife is CPA and works as an accountant for some malls and she gave me that tidbit of information, they were screwed too!)

  11. #11
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    [deleted]

    [This message was edited by womanht on February 19, 2004 at 12:08 AM.]

  12. #12
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Who owes us the money KBtoys or CJ? Isn't it CJ's responsibility to make sure that reversals are legitimate? These do not qualify as legitimate reversals and since CJ pays us not KB/Etoys we are barking up the wrong tree. CJ owes us this money for legitimate sales. If CJ does not pay this to us it shows that they do not intend on fair and honest business practices.

    As far as the retainer that CJ didn't have but was supposed to have goes, it's not our problem how they handle their end of the business.

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    I think it would be a good idea for CJ to pay us what is owed. They were supposed to have the money, not our problem if they didn't.

  14. #14
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Exactly!

    CJ didn't file bankruptcy KB did.

  15. #15
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    I have no idea hwy anyone would still be promoting them!!!

    the principal being, they should not get away with ripping us off!

    i will not be taken for a fool again, and i do not care if they are getting a few free hits from pages where the links still are, I just know that i willnot have have money like that reversed again!

    *** And people say I'm just a housewife!!! ha ha ***

  16. #16
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    Hate to say this, but think you are outta luck as for as getting commissions from KB Toys before their bankruptcy filing.

    I also sincerely doubt CJ got anything, either, despite what people are claiming here. Bankruptcy doesn't work like that. Anything CJ was owed by KB Toys prior to the bankruptcy would have most likely been either wiped clean or severely reduced. They may have collected their monthly listing fee (doesn't CJ have one of those - like $500 or something like that??), but I strongly suspect that CJ lost out on all the commission fees like everyone else has. And since CJ is just like Performics - if they get screwed, the affiliate does too.

    quote:
    the principal being, they should not get away with ripping us off!


    That is part of the whole bankruptcy process. For better or worse (depending on where you sit), the process allows people and or companies to get out of money that they owe.

    Anytime a company seems like it is teetering on the brink I avoid like a plague in promoting them. It's a wonderful way to lose out on earned commissions - and have no recourse.

    Best thing to do is to forget the whole KB Toys thing and move on to other better merchants - although the toy arena does seem a bit thin on good merchants right now other than Amazon.

    My two pennies.



    Jim

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    quote:
    Isn't it CJ's responsibility to make sure that reversals are legitimate?


    To the best of my knowledge, CJ takes no responsibility to ensure the honesty of reversals in their contract with us. If anyone has information to the contrary, I would be interested. At this time, it appears that merchants are free to reverse sales at will with little if any explanation to afflilates.

    Todd has stated that CJ is content with the integrity of the reversals as things stand now.

    If the money is in escrow, it does not belong to CJ, it belongs to the owner of the escrow account and is to be used for the intended purposes. I am not sure that the money could be rightfully returned on demand. The money was for a contract that involved three parties. Affiliates are the third party and if we did not give consent for the return of the money and it was returned, that would have been a breech of the implied contract with the affiliates.

    We need a new contract with CJ that adequate money for anticipated sales will be kept in escrow at all times. CJ should not be allowed to extend credit merchants without the consent of the third party to the contract, the affiliates. Further, if funds are running low, affiliates should be advised of that fact so they may contact the merchant directly and also so that may make an informed decision about continuing to sell for that merchant. Failure to provide such relevant information to the third party to the contract is extreem negligence and may not be entirely legal.

    CJ pretends that their are only two parties to the contract. There are three. Affiliates are treated as nonentities in CJs dealings with merchants.

    When a sale is made, CJ has a responsibility to see that affiliates are paid. It is also their responsibility to ensure that money is collected that will ensure payment. If they do not do this, the are not meeting their fiduciary responsibility.


    Mr.Merchant, if you do business in any way what-so-ever with parasites, your products will not be sold on my sites!!
    Affiliates, before you use CJ merchants, Read This! Comments are to be interpreted as opinion unless otherwise noted.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on February 19, 2004 at 09:12 AM.]

  18. #18
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    They took me for over $8,000. I will never promote KB until they pay.

    Legal mumbo jumbo aside, CJ should make good on these commissions if they want affiliates to trust them. It seems to me that trust is a critical to their long term business interests. Once the trust is gone, so is their business. If the CEO of CJ was smart, they would turn this situation to their advantage by taking the bullet for the affiliates. Imagine the positive PR.

  19. #19
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    CJ / Valueclick is not going to give away free money (to cover KB Toys' debts). How do you think the VCLK shareholders would react if they heard they were doing that?

    And they know everyone is going to keep promoting CJ merchants. Nobody is leaving CJ (except SSanf).

    You think eBates is going to leave CJ? Is theaffiliate who earned $1,000,000 thru ebay going to leave?

    Our best hope is that Connie refers enough sales that KB can pay the rest of us.

  20. #20
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by peedtih:
    CJ should make good on these commissions if they want affiliates to trust them. ... If the CEO of CJ was smart, they would turn this situation to their advantage by taking the bullet for the affiliates. Imagine the positive PR.
    That would be great, but I wouldn't count on it. I think they'd rather have the cash than the positive PR. I'd love be wrong on this, though.

    quote:
    Originally posted by jimbo2002:
    Our best hope is that Connie refers enough sales that KB can pay the rest of us.
    I'm doing my best, too.

    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com

  21. #21
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    >How do you think the VCLK shareholders would react if they heard they were doing that?

    They may just think that they have invested in an ethically sound company that cares about its partners and its future. That is good for the long term value of the stock.

  22. #22
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    Hobbytron

    Is taking up the slack for kb/etoys. They sent a lovely letter and I am eager to see an increase in there feed!

    As for VC and the stockholders being concerned.




    SandraR
    | SSAN & AIM: SSanAssistance | MSN & Yahoo: SSan_Assistance |


  23. #23
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    Here's my MAJOR concern;

    Since Kb/Etoy's checks were being paid to CJ and not directly to us, are we even listed on on the bankruptcy petition as creditors or is just CJ listed???

    Just to put things into perspective;

    -When the original Etoys company went bankrupt, they owed me $5,143 in commission. Three years later when the bankrupcy was settled I received two checks representing my share of the liquidation; one for $37.50 and the other for $119.10! That's all that was left of my original commissions.

    -When ZainyBrainy (NoodleKadoodle) filed bankrupcy they owned me $2,711. Three years later I received my settlement: $18.13.

    If the trend continues, you can expect to receive less than 5% of your commissions three years from now.

    To make matter worse, KB Holding company is a BRITISH company doing business in the United States. I know this because when KB made the switch two years ago from Linkshare to CJ I had numerous arguements with their senior managment about the delay in payment of our commissions and the drastic cut we took under the new CJ contract. They were all foreignors working here in the U.S. on the Passports. It's possible that they could pack their bags and move back to England leaving us all high and dry.

  24. #24
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    Today I received a SPAM pushing KbToys offers.
    Some affiliate has no idea about what's going on...

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador qball0213's Avatar
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    Possible? I think it's a done deal. People like Connie and Michael will keep promoting them, so it will happen again in a couple years and a new batch of people will get hosed, and Connie and Michael will still be promoting them. If everyone dropped them like they should, then they would get what they deserved, they kept our money we made for them, and as they said, it's a shame but the laws say they can't pay us. What a crock. They knew they were going to file bankruptcy before Christmas, and they took advantage of us, knowing we would send them big loads of traffic. Piss on them. All of my old pages contain a warning now, be careful when you do business with them, hopefully they will stay as well ranked as they were. I hope they pay out something some day, and if they do, I will go buy my kids something at Toys R Us.

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