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  1. #1
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    Im thinking about learning asp, php, coldfusion or something like that the only problems are:
    1. I don't know what they do
    2. I don't know the difference
    all Ive realy done is javascript and a little cgi (and of coarse html, xml, and css I don't understand xsl either)

    so can anyone help me?

  2. #2
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    I've used ASP for a long time now, and I am very satisfied with it. ASP is the Microsoft's equivalent of CGI. I couldn't understand CGI and that is why I went to ASP. ASP goes together with any programming languages (like CGI), but the two commonly used are VBScript and JScript(I use VBScript). If you have experience with JScript, hey there you go, you're half way there. ASP is not too hard to learn. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
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    ASP is alright, and its easy to learn, however I'm presently migrating to PHP (I've never tried ColdFusion).. The main benefit of both languages is that they make it easy to talk to a database.. As for the difference, ASP is M$ and browser driven - so the visitors browser puts the page together.. True ASP is basically VBScript.. PHP is server driven (fairly sure), so the page is compiled before arriving at the browser.. Both have their advantages.. As ASP is browser driven, it will cache files, and reuse them if called on again. This can speed a few things up and also take away a bit of the drain from the server..

    In regards to learning one, pick your server and database first.. If you like MySQL and Linux, use PHP.. If you like Access or M$SQL and Windows, use ASP. That way you'll find millions of tutorials on hand. If you start to cross them over, you'll be lucky to find many tutorials and you'll be on your own.

  4. #4
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    @ TK

    Lets make things clear TK. I see that you are one of those M$ haters, which is ok, but don't talk about things if you have no idea what you're talking about.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As for the difference, ASP is M$ and browser driven - so the visitors browser puts the page together.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Lets see what ASP means. ASP = Active Server Pages. See the "SERVER" word!? That means that the pages are server generated and sent to the client's browser.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>True ASP is basically VBScript.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>WHAT THE ....!?!?!? Where did you get this from ??? ASP has nothing to do with VBScript, it is a totally different language. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PHP is server driven <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OH COME ON!!!! PHP is the SAME THING as VBScript, JScript, Perl, or any other language of that category. Those languages have NOTHING to do with the server generated pages. ASP and CGI do.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ASP is alright, and its easy to learn, however I'm presently migrating to PHP (I've never tried ColdFusion).. The main benefit of both languages is that they make it easy to talk to a database.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>NON SENCE! ASP has NOTHING to do with databases. The M$ language to communicate with databases is ADO. Got that !? ADO = Active Database Objects, or something like that, not sure of the exact definition.

    Now... I hope I wasn't too harsh on you, but before you start talking about M$ stuff because you hate them, please ask if you don't understand it. Take me for example. I don't know much about CGI and Perl, PHP, or any other language other than VBScript and a little JScript, so I don't talk about it. But don't tell me about ASP, ADO, and VBScript.

    One other thing. Both IE and the new versions of NS understand both VBScript and JScript so there is no need for the server to translate that for the browsers. But that doesn't mean that they are browser driven. If you have the code in combination with ASP, then it is SERVER driven. BUT, if you have a page that has ONLY VBScipt or JScipt code in it with no ASP, then it is browser driven cause the browser understands these languages. Browsers DO NOT understand ASP code. Also, languages like Perl, PHP, and alike, have to be installed on the server in order to be translated for the browser by the server cause browsers do not understand them. This is your confusion about PHP being server driven. But in reality, if you look at it, PHP does the same job as Perl, VBScript, JScript and languages alike.

    Hope this helps. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Well I'll try to be nice seeing as I'm on the agenda for moderation..

    First off, I'm not a tech by any means.. I haven't followed anything in the computer world for a long time that doesn't directly impact my income. Languages do not effect my income..

    Secondly, as for M$ and your obvious love for them?? I have news for you.. I don't hate them.. I have been writing it that way since 1994 when they managed to outmarket a better operating system from IBM.. They are very good at raking in the $.. If I really hated them, I wouldn't have used ASP for the last 2 years..

    As for the rest, as I said I'm not a tech, and will not enter into a tech arguement where the person I talk to will engage in pulling apart each expression based on the exact tech variation on choice of words.. examples: (what I said) php is server driven - fairly sure (the reality) php is executed on the server.. (what I said) easy to talk to a database (the reality) ADO - I started using a base of ASP to enable me to run scipts using a db, as most do. I wouldn't care what the exact terminology is, or whether my statement was technically correct. The reality is that ASP and PHP are where people start when considering using a database on the web.. The original question was asked by a person considering learning one of the languages, not by a tech.. (what I said) ASP is basically VBscript (the reality) most people use VBScript as their ASP server side scripting language of choice.. (what I said) ASP is browser driven (the reality) yup this is an incorrect statement.. VBScript is client side capable, PHP is not..

    I'm sure that I said a few things that may be incorrect.. and I thank you ever so kindly for setting me straight in such a nice manner..

    The rest I'll do for the moderators..

    ---> This post was edited by Haiko, Leader, or Quiet777 at some point or another.. <---

    Was there a sale on high horses somewhere this week? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  6. #6
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First off, I'm not a tech by any means.. I haven't followed anything in the computer world for a long time that doesn't directly impact my income. Languages do not effect my income..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Isn't that called, "The blind leading the blind." Why bother doing all that typing if you know not what you say? Seems like a waste of time to me. :confused:

    [ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: breeze ]

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Isn't that called, "The blind leading the blind."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not quite.. My sites are enabled with a lot of asp functionality, and this is now changing to php.. I have searchable directories, forums, shopping carts, and all the rest of the perks and jerks. I wrote the lot of these originally by myself (now I have someone doing it for me), so I know how to write and use the scripts. What I don't know however is all of the tech mumbo jumbo surrounding their use - hence I am not a tech. The core of the message still remains the same however.. If your going to pick one, select the DB and server first.. It makes learning simpler.. If you have no desire to ever use a DB, then yes my message was worthless..

  8. #8
    Master of Design AlexBet's Avatar
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    @ TK
    First of all let's make something clear. I didn't mean to argue with you, but to help Gold. Now as you said: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First off, I'm not a tech by any means.. I haven't followed anything in the computer world for a long time that doesn't directly impact my income.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Well, OK. I respect that. But, then why are you misleading Gold when the guy is only asking for an honest opinion (knowledge) so he can make a choice. And yet, eventhough you say you are "not a tech by any means", you still go on argueing and reply to my post. Even more, you are misleading him again. :rolleyes:
    Well, I'm not going to reply once again line by line cause with a guy like you this is going to be forever. I will let Gold choose what he thinks is true.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The rest I'll do for the moderators..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't see a reason for a postr to be edited here cause nobody used bad words or offended anyone. Now, if you feel offended by what I said, well, tough luck then. Didn't mean to offend anyone, just wanted to give out information. After all information is all we are here for, right!?

    Phew! But, I MUST reply to your "{what i said)" and "(the reality"). Now, since you don't believe me, I will quote an expert in this field so you don't bother me again.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ASP was introduced by Microsoft in 1996 and is server-based technology. With ASP it is possible to design dynamic, interactive HTML documents. ASP has been developed for the Windows NT platform along with Microsoft Internet Information Server (IIS). ASP seems is a good alternate for the Common Gateway Interface(CGI).

    ASP's are powerful at database handling because of its database access technology ActiveX data Objects (ADO). Using these specially designed built-in data objects it is easy to connect a website with a database.

    ASP is so popular now because it is easy to develop applications. They are basically written with VBScript, which is a subset of Visual Basic for Applications(VBA). These VBA are used by Microsoft office products and are based on Visual Basic. Since Visual Basic is the most popular language among Windows users, it's quite easy for developers to learn and work with ASP.

    An ASP file is HTML with ASP as its extension. When the IIS4 receives a HTTP** request for an ASP file, the final HTML document will be dynamically generated along with the information sent from the server. ASP is simple to write, debug and maintain. With Microsoft's Visual Interdev and other Visual Studio tools it is easy to generate Rapid Applications with ASP.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Any questions????????????????? You can read the whole article HERE
    Now, regarding PHP, as I said in my previous post, I don't want to talk about it too much cause I am not to "tech" for it, but (as you said) I was correct about it.

    @ GOLD
    Gold, I think you BEST choice is to learn ASP w/ VBScript cause ASP.NET and VB.NET are going to be THE future scripting languages, so get used to it. You can read all about ASP.NET and VB.NET HERE. Just remember that ASP.NET and VB.NET as well as J.NET are still in beta, but will be out soon and there will be no better alternative. So get used to ASP.

    Let see if Haiko edits this TK. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

  9. #9
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    Okay, this is probably going to be seen as SPAM or something but I wanted to let you know.

    I ordered a copy of a book from BAMM on learning PHP/MySQL and the contract job that I bought it for decided on ASP. The returns window was closed so I was stuck with the book.

    I would be willing to sell it to someone for my AFTER COMMISSION price with FREE SHIPPING. If you are interested, send me email at patrobas@myfuturemall.com and I will send you the ISBN information, etc.

  10. #10
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    Suppose I should weigh in here -- I am a professional web developer who's worked on some of the biggest health-related websites on the net. I do PHP, Flash, Director Cold Fusion, Javascript, Perl, XML, etc... on a daily basis.

    Here's what I'm sayin -- use PHP.

    ... and I say that as someone who uses Cold Fusion almost every day.

    Why?
    1) ASP programmers are anti-open source. The great thing about PHP and Perl is that they're supported by huge communities. The best way to learn any new language is to work with someone else's creation and tweak it to your own needs.

    2) PHP was created specifically for the web. Don't get me wrong, I love the flexibility of perl, but it can be very trying sometimes to get it to play well with HTML.

    3) PHP is great cross platform. A few weeks ago, I had to move an ecommerce store off a linux box and onto a NT-based server. In addition, I had to change the database from mySQL to m$sql. (I may diss microsoft from time to time, but their sql database is amazing). Overall, it took me about 24 hours of total work (I fixed some of the original creator's code in the process, so one needs to count for that)

    A couple of quick notes. PHP, CF, ASP, and perl are all server side, while flash and javascript are client side (supposedly, one can run server-side javascript, but I've never met anyone who does.) If you do serious database work and you've got $1500 to spend on Cold Fusion and the developer's toolkit, it is awesome. Otherwise, the nice thing about PHP and mysql is that they are FREE!!! (And well supported by the community).

    PHP and CF are both ODBC compatible as well, so you can read and write from any ODBC-compliant database if you're working on an Windows-based machine (access, excel, etc..) Presumably, this is true for ASP as well, the only issue there is that you'd never be able to port your code to linux if the need arose. (Yeah, I know, there's that interpreter out there, but I've heard mixed things about it and no service provider is likely to have it).

    At any rate, take it from a person who does this every day, 12 hours a day. Use PHP and work on linux. I know, it has this mystique as being a "techie" language, but it's awesome to work with, as it was designed from the ground up to drive web pages (unlike ASP). The SAMS "Teach Yourself PHP in 24-hours" book is a great way to learn, filled with useful bite-size lessons which you can work through quickly. I also dig that Wrox "Beginning PHP4" book.

  11. #11
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    Johnny, Thanks for a very, very informative post! I myself have always worked on linux and too believe it is the way to go. I have been looking into .php and was about to go that way with a new site. Thanks for making my choice an easy one! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  12. #12
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    thanks for the info I realy appreciate it. But what is M$ and M$SQL I've heard of mysql but not M$SQL and I don't even realy know what mysql is.

  13. #13
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    also do you know of any free hosts that support php and are on linux platforms?

  14. #14
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    hehe... sorry. M$ is hacker-speak for Microsoft -- thus m$SQL is Microsoft's model of SQL server. MySQL is a free variant of the ever-popular SQL server (SQL itself is a kind of database programming language that's fairly widely used). MySQL isn't the most powerful SQL server out there, but if you're just learning, it's pretty darn good. Because it has stripped down functionality, it actually runs substantially faster than the Microsoft SQL package.

    As for free hosts, as far as I'm concerned, you get what you pay for. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather pay $7-15/month to have it hosted by professionals who don't spew ads all over my site. I think I pay $10/month for service hostrocket.com. I wouldn't say they've been fantastic, but I don't have any real complaints.

    I see that this site is running an ad for PowWeb -- they charge $7.77 for a pretty decent account. No idea about their reliability, etc... but might be worth checking out.

    Good luck!

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