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  1. #1
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    I ordered a dozen candy cane roses for my cousin going through cancer treatment. A free vase pop-up window came up and I clicked on it. I got the vase, but lost the sale according to records from yesterday's business. Funny thing though is they lost the whole order and more than likely an affiliate...so much for the new code of conduct. Thankfully, I still have plenty of time to place the new order with 1-800-Flowers...where I should have gone in the first place (a non-parasitic site) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
    U.S. Sportfishing News

    [This message was edited by jarec on December 15, 2002 at 07:23 AM.]

    [This message was edited by jarec on December 15, 2002 at 07:25 AM.]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Jim,

    I'm confused. You got a pop-up offer for a free vase from who? Proflowers or a third party?

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    Scott Jangro
    sjangro@befree.com

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Are you talking about the pop-up on this page?

    http://www.proflowers.com/cfm/produc...ionTypeID=OCHF

    That's no parasite. That's just a pop-up from Proflowers.

    And the click from that popup still contains the affiliate ID (they store it in the REF url parameter), so I don't even see a leak.

    As to where your sale went, if you have your order number that can be investigated.

    But no parasite took it.

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    Scott Jangro
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  4. #4
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Scott I know you'll get to the bottom of this very concerning issue. The entry point of the popup was the critical issue at hand...after the shopper was inside the checkout program!!!

    If this was a parasite popup trying to set it's ID cookie with a free plastic vase offer before the shopper could hit the accept order button that is serious. Interloping just before the order confimation page triggers the sales tracking tag means this parasite is within the secure shopping cart area of the merchant capable of recording all the shopper privacy and CC information.

    Scott check which parasites BF works with that has shopping cart secure server URLs in their BHO database. Then find one who has the ProFlower's cart server pin pointed. Nip that illegal timebomb in the butt real quick.

    WebMaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Mike,

    Did you see my followup post? I see nothing dodgy here.

    Take a look at the page. The pop-up is Proflowers' own higlighting the free vase offer with the candy-cane roses. It came up when I went to the Christmas page on their site (the URL above). And even if the user clicks on the pop-up, the affiliate's ID remains intact.

    --scott

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  6. #6
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    quote:
    I see nothing dodgy here.


    All I know is that I visited the site twice, and in this case it looks like I was the only one from this site, got to the order page, hit the back button to make sure that's what I wanted, and that's when the pop-up appeared. Since it was a free vase to go with the dozen roses, it made sense to take advantage of the offer. Upon looking over the reports (for yesterday) this morning, I saw the two clicks from this site, but no sale and more importantly no commission. Now what would you think? It doesn't matter about tracking now. I called and cancelled it and placed the order elsewhere.

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
    U.S. Sportfishing News

  7. #7
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    Maybe i'm not understanding your situation but merchants do offer their own pop-ups, you can only have a parasitic pop-up if you have their software on your computer. Also as far as reporting sometimes you will see the click before the sale showing up in reports. Some merchants only report sales about once a week ala Gap, Old Navy and others don't report the sale until it ships. I've never had any problems with ProFlowers in the past.

    Refuse To Lose - Chuck D

  8. #8
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    quote:
    Some merchants only report sales about once a week

    It's probably a good thing that I don't deal with them at this point then or else I'd be b*tching about them, too!
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
    U.S. Sportfishing News

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Jim,

    Merchants don't necessarily post orders every single day. I don't know Proflowers' reporting patterns, but the orders for both Sat and Sun may very well appear on Monday morning.

    Also, commissions aren't rewarded until the order ships, which again depending on the merchant and obviously availability of product, may take from zero to several days. Given that you were able to cancel the order this morning, it seems they hadn't shipped it yet.

    While it doesn't seem like you gave it a chance, I'm not saying that merchants never drop sales. I'd be happy to have our team investigate any sale that someone thinks was not tracked -- very happy. Give me an order number.

    Anyway, my "dodgy" comment was in response to Mike who was suggesting that I look for someone who stole your sale with thier own shopping cart. Though you were crying parasite as well.

    It's your prerogative to cancel the sale and even change merchants based on your perception of this incident. I just can't let claims of parasitic activity or non-tracking go without question.

    --scott

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    Scott Jangro
    sjangro@befree.com

    [edited: wrote this before seeing Chuck's post, who said the same with many fewer words [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]]

  10. #10
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    quote:
    Though you were crying parasite as well.


    It was a question or did you miss the three ?'s at the end of the topic? The fact is that some, if not most of the commissions are posted as soon as the credit card clears...not when the order is shipped. TigerDirect doesn't seem to have a problem posting right away. I can accept the explanation that perhaps the merchant is slow in posting the sale even though the visit is recorded. And no, BeFree will see none of this sale.

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
    U.S. Sportfishing News

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    I guess I missed the ???'s. my bad. I must have been distracted by all the red faces and the references to parasite. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    --
    Scott Jangro
    sjangro@befree.com

  12. #12
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    Nothing personal, Scott, but I just needed to vent after seeing the report. I'm better now, LOL
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
    U.S. Sportfishing News

  13. #13
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    Proflowers always seems slow to report. I also end up with a ton of orders that never get shipped. The vase popup, however, is not a parasite. It's been there for a long time. Personally, I don't like any popups in an order flow...especially since so many user's these days have popup busting software, or automatically close any popup.

    Merchants don't have parasites on their server. The parasites usually infect the shopper's computer.

    Protophoto - Short Stories

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Scott said: "Anyway, my "dodgy" comment was in response to Mike who was suggesting that I look for someone who stole your sale with thier own shopping cart. Though you were crying parasite as well."

    Come on now Scott. There aren't any outside parasites who even own a shopping cart. They do not sell a darn thing. I was asking you to check into existing parasites who place secure shopping cart URL's in their BHO databases to trigger popups within the SHOPPING CART AREAS of the targeted shopper. Assume ProFlowers is the victim here.

    AYZ flower company is a WhenU -eBates -Gator or some other BHO listed merchant paying to get their popup at the point of sale on a competitors site. I believe that is their ebiz plan ..right? My point, not knowing what popup appeared, was that diverting traffic or swapping cookies within the secure shopping area of other merchants had never occur with BeFree's blessing or knowledge.

    Do you agree with this Scott as an absolute infringement on sacred ground of one merchant by another outside enity... be they parasite or competitor.

    Should it ever progress to that point I personally will stear the focus of the anti-parasite movement to forces who will never allow this to happen. Some things are sacred even in ecommerce.

    Webmaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on December 15, 2002 at 05:19 PM.]

    [This message was edited by EcomCity.com on December 15, 2002 at 05:20 PM.]

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Sorry Mike, I must have misunderstood you too. It's just that you are always one step ahead of the rest of us...I just thought you were already uncovering the next technique. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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    Scott Jangro
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  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Sheesh, Mike. You always catch me with the adding substantially to your messages! Let me read this one more carefully before I respond.

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    Scott Jangro
    sjangro@befree.com

  17. #17
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    I know Scott I'm wierd that way. Must come from me and Al Gore ghost writing all the xFile shows...ROLMAO

    Webmaster Mike

    "Anyone can make a dollar, it is when you make sense that it starts to add up."...does your eBiz plan make sense?

  18. #18
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    Ok, IM really confused here!

    I got the vase, but lost the sale according to records from yesterday's business. Funny thing though is they lost the whole order and more than likely an affiliate...so much for the new code of conduct. Thankfully, I still have plenty of time to place the new order

    you got a vase, lost a sale, have to order somewhere else? no commission showing up!

    was there an order?? did anyone get anything? if there is no order, no commission???

    wahhhhh???

    help!

  19. #19
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    Papasan, I hope you keep us informed on what shows up on your reports. My experience with proflowers is that they are slow on posting commission data. The click throughs and impressions show up quickly (they are from BeFree, but I suspect they upload sales and commission information manually...which means a big delay in your commission information showing up.

    I don't think this is a parasite problem. Do you have eBates, Gator, Morpheus or any of the other suspected parasites on your computer? If you do, and the popup came from the third party popup, then you have a parasite problem. As far as I know, there are no merchants crass enough to run parasites on their server.

    Speaking of Proflowers: besides being slow, I've noticed that there is often a big discrepency between Proflowers' order amount and shipped amounts. The total shipped amounts on my account is only 30% of the ordered amount. I fear that when someone orders a year of roses, Proflowers only commissions on the first shipment.

    Scott, if you do investigate the popup, you would be so kind as to investigate the discrepency between the order and sales.

    Protophoto - Short Stories

  20. #20
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    Proflowers used to be an amazingly good flower affiliate program. That was a couple years ago. You could tell they really put a huge effort into interacting with affiliates, and the conversion rate was superb; even with only 10% commission they outperformed other places with 15-20%.

    Then the reports slowed down. Then the conversion rate dropped like a brick. The communication stopped. The bonuses and affiliate promotions are no more.

    Sorry to see them give up.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador sjangro's Avatar
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    Yintercept,

    >>Papasan, I hope you keep us informed on what shows up on your reports. <<

    I think papasan was "paraphrasing" Jim. (Correct me if I'm wrong Papasan.)

    >>Scott, if you do investigate the popup, you would be so kind as to investigate the discrepency between the order and sales.<<

    The Proflowers pop-up is their own, not a parasite. I'll inquire about the discrepency in orders and sales.

    --scott

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    Scott Jangro
    sjangro@befree.com

  22. #22
    Full Member jarec2001's Avatar
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    JUST AN UPDATE:

    What makes this even more sad is that after I cancelled the order (had used a debit card), they never returned the charge and then I had to spend an hour on the phone back and forth between them to try to get this resolved. The money might show up in a day or two according to the bank. The problem is that the merchant's credit department acted as though this is an everyday occurrence....sheez. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    "Where a conversion is no accident, it's a miracle."

    Jim
    JAREC & Associates
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