Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    ALL,

    I have been alerted to http://www.hotbar.com using contextual popup redirrects!

    I installed it today and when I go to jumpline ... it shows a redirect for FeaturePrice.com I do NOT, YET, know if this will affect affiliate links also!

    Let us all nip this in the bud before they even think about expanding this offering into the next WhenU@ (they have 15MM users :eek:!)

    Haiko
    PS I will be moving all the WhenU threads into this Forum later!

    [ edited destination of pop up ]

    [ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Haiko ]

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,082
    Jeez! When the hell does it stop! They are like vultures or piranha in a feeding frenzy!
    Cazzie :mad:

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    ÄúsTrálíĺ
    Posts
    1,372
    I installed hotbar on my computer a few months back to get some cool browser skins.
    Never noticed any pop-ups, and I had to uninstall it after it kept chewing my memory

  4. #4
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,494
    Not another one!!!
    As soon as we target one another pops up!
    We need to resolve this legally.
    There are a number of sites which are targeting individual programs, perhaps we need to join forces because "contextual advertising" whether it's ezula, topsurf or whenU, essentially (I believe) infringes on our copyright by altering and diminishing the artistic integrity of our sites.

    I would be more than happy to throw $10 in the pool to fight this legally, and with the amount of webmasters and affiliates, from here, ihelpyouservices forum and even jims forum, that's a fair wack of fighting money!

  5. #5
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,817
    @ Pete--It didn't do it a few months back. This only started with the last "upgrade"--Hotbar 3.0.

    @ All--
    The skins are still cool, but its new propensity to pop windows "by surprise" is annoying as Tarnation and worse yet, when they luck into a targeted advertiser, they pop relentlessly at competitor sites. Then when the ad money runs out, they stop popping.

    They don't seem to have many of the big names like WhenU, though, and resort to random advertising a lot of the time. Nor do they seem to get repeat customers...when a campaign stops, it seems to stay gone.

    Also they don't pop a great deal of windows. But it seems that after a certain amount of pages are viewed, POP! It may be every 100 screens. I get about 5-6 of them a night. But when I am looking at something they're targeting, there's a lot more!

    Also, the manner in which it targets sites seems to be different. Instead of going after certain keywords, it asks users to "help them categorize this site" when you surf to a site it doesn't know about. If you click that (it shows up in a toolbar they stick you with), a heirarchy appears and you can pick from it.

    From these categorizations, it determines what the site's about. Most of the categorized ones are right, but some are way out there! (Some CLOD told it what my site's about...)

    If it thinks it knows what the site's about, "related" links appear in the toolbar--and if they manage to get a targeted advertising contract, POP you get that too. The "related" links go to generally cheesy sites that obviously don't have much of a budget...

    The "related" links aren't really scummy because you can tell they have nothing to do with the site you're on. But the popups are another thing!

    [ 12-20-2001: Message edited by: Leader ]

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    quote:
    Originally posted by mousejockey:
    I would be more than happy to throw $10 in the pool to fight this legally, and with the amount of webmasters and affiliates, from here, ihelpyouservices forum and even jims forum, that's a fair wack of fighting money!

    http://www.merchantwatch.com WILL have a legal fund to combat all of this malarkey!

    Haiko

  7. #7
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,482
    quote:
    http://www.merchantwatch.com WILL have a legal fund to combat all of this malarkey!


    Okay how about using that idea as the press release?

    That way we get our word out and ask for help all at the same time. The press loves a good cause and asking for funds to help the little guy fight the big guy is prime!

  8. #8
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    21,609
    Heyder,

    quote:
    Okay how about using that idea as the press release?


    We will be ... I am still tweaking it and it will not be live till it is perfect!

    The DB ( http://www.merchantwatch.com/report.htm ) needs input and CJ has told me that they WILL NOT do daily dumps to MW! We need interactivity and the cursory overview shows that "they" will not! hmmmmmm!

    Haiko
    Still working on it!

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Palm Springs, CA
    Posts
    866
    In my opinion (as a non-practicing lawyer) the best way to fight all this scumware stuff is to find a class action attorney to take up the fight. Affiliates are losing a lot of money due to these activities. That's a bunch of money for a class action attorney to take a nice, hefty percentage from.

    Scumware like WhenU, etc. will come and go, but the companies who allow these practices to continue like CJ, Linkshare, BeFree, Yahoo(?), Amazon, etc. are the targets. A class action attorney could go after them because they not only provide the avenue through which these companies operate, they are in fact facilitating their very existence and propagation (for example, in WhenU's case, CJ, Linkshare, BeFree and Amazon are allowing these groups to sign up as affiliates and use their services even when they have been clearly told that the practices this company is engaging in are defrauding other affiliates).

    WhenU saying the customer signed up for this service doesn't give them the right to hijack another person's profit if the deal is the same. Can you just imagine how that would play in court with a group of hardworking jury members? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] If the deal isn't the same then that has impinged on the rights of others in the affiliate program.

    The class action attorney could put a bunch of mom and pop webmasters on the stand who are just normal everyday people trying to make a buck who will say that because WhenU (and others like them) stole their money they couldn't send little Johnny to college or they needed the money from the website for an operation or they mortgaged their house to start up the business, but because of WhenU and others like them lost their business and their house or some other stories that would make a jury sympathize. They are out there. They always are. The numbers would back up the stories.

    WhenU would probably be bankrupt real quick, but CJ and the others would be on the hook because their very practices allow such an environment to continue. CJ saying basically to "work it out with the merchants" isn't going to cut it, especially if they are allowing WhenU to use their services to sign up for the affiliate programs. I'm not sure of all the details of the WhenU situation, but if CJ, Linkshare and the rest are violating their own policies (or being lax in their enforcement of them), god help them. Even after being made aware of it, they have turned a blind eye. This will make them seem like insensitive jerks.

    Regardless of whether CJ and the others actually stand at trial as the defendents doesn't really matter, what matters is that if some class action attorneys get wind that there is money to be made they will be all over these programs and merchants like white on rice. This will force CJ, Amazon and the others to clean up their acts or risk losing a lot of cash, in legal fees if nothing else. Plus it will give them a black eye in the PR arena.

    The class action attorney wouldn't have to go after all of the merchants/affiliate programs either. All they would have to do is go after one or two of the biggies as an example to everyone else.

    Just my two cents anyway.

    All the best,
    Kip [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    Act Now Domains

    [ 12-21-2001: Message edited by: Kip ]

  10. #10
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    5,482
    A very good two cents too.

    Kip is right CJ, Linkshare, Amazon and Befree have a responsibility with this. Not just the merchants who in some or maybe all cases were somewhat victims.

    These big networks have known about all of this the whole time and yet they do nothing! You know why, because they still make money and don't have to deal with you!

    Why should they care?? As long as they can get away with it they'll even prefer to use whenu and other scuzassware.

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    quote:
    http://www.merchantwatch.com WILL have a legal fund to combat all of this malarkey!

    Once you have sorted the main agenda out would it be worth canvasing the white list merchants to help towards the fund? I would think they stand to lose a lot more than us affiliates. Just a thought.

  12. #12
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    2,494
    I agree Kip, it would be a great idea if we could find a class action attorney to take on
    these parasites.
    I also think a precedent has to be set over sovereignty of domains.

  13. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    1,537
    Yea for Kip,

    We have been working on this 'class action' deal for close to six months - it's almost ready to fly.

    It's what I said months ago - but it takes time to correctly prepare the paperwork, document the prospective defendents and such.

    In 2002, Meeser, Gerace, Sisney and company are going to be so busy dealing with lawyers they will think they are married to the deposition transcriber.

    THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN LOSE SHORT OF THE PLACE BEING NUKED.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    668
    I'm sure there is already property law that could be argued....the biggest problem is finding the money and who to sue,

    few attorneys will litigate just because case law is on their side or because the claimant is right -- but if there is someone or some party with MONEY to go after they will be right there, aren't microsoft and cj associated in some legal way?? if they could be made a party to the action we'd have thousands of lawyers beggin for the job!! Otherwise I don't know if cj,linkshare or befree have enough $$ to even bother with.....maybe one of the brick and mortars who are using WhenU ??

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    St Clair Shores MI.
    Posts
    17,328
    Legally going after the enablers is the correct step. Those merchants who willingly adopt scumware /parasiteware as a means to hijack competitors online business become liable too. The pure fact thta these networks roll out the red carpet treating these guys as legit "super affiliates" really frosts me. That's why they purposely do not devulge over months their true relationships with them. It's all about money not integrety.

  16. #16
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    223
    Well I did ask if CJ *had* any lawyers some time ago. Its extraordinary the liability they have opened themselves to.

    It would be interesting if it went to trial, but they'll capitulate long before that, sadly. Maybe its time to quantify what our actual losses have been and invoice for them.

    f

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    9,944
    Go after the websites that are distributing this scumware /parasiteware.

  18. Newsletter Signup

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. hotbar
    By Steveinid in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 6th, 2003, 03:22 PM
  2. HotBar
    By Chris - AMWSO in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: May 11th, 2003, 08:08 PM
  3. Help with Hotbar Redirect
    By Taurus in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 25th, 2001, 01:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •