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  1. #1
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    ALL,

    I invited Findwhat to come in and post to "clear" their name with their WhenU affiliation, they unfortunately declined but said they would issue a statement to be posted on ABW. Below you will find said "statement".

    quote:
    Haiko,

    As you know I can not go into great detail regarding our relationship because of the
    confidentiality of our agreement, but I can tell you that the WhenU software serves
    highly targeted popup ads to users who are conducting keyword-based searches.
    FindWhat.com provides search results to a subset of those searches. This relationship
    was established to provide FindWhat.com's advertisers with additional high-quality
    search traffic. Once again, FindWhat.com advertiser links are only displayed in
    response to search queries. If you, or any of your associates, have received traffic
    from FindWhat that you believe to be of poor quality, I would ask that you contact
    us, so that we can investigate and resolve the problem.

    Best,


    Pete Neumann
    Vice President of Business Development
    FindWhat.com
    12751 Westlinks Drive, Suite 3
    Fort Myers, FL 33913
    NASDAQ: FWHT
    peten@findwhat.com
    vox 941-561-7229
    cel 941-822-8447
    fax 941-561-5948
    toll-free 888-882-3178


  2. #2
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    So, can you translate that for me? I'm running a little slow today - rough superbowl party last night!

    -elbowcreek

  3. #3
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    That means that they [Findwhat] supports them [WhenU] because they can and do drive targeted traffic to findwhat advertisers.

    Haiko

  4. #4
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    Glad I haven't funded my Findwhat account since last fall....,

    I don't want WhenU driving traffic to my site, since they'll just be a pop up for the visitors they bring -so they can steal my sales!

    Findwhat is thinking only of their pockets, not the people who pay them for their services!!!

    Everyone still using FW should immediately STOP!!

    my .02 [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  5. #5
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    I guess I am just dense this morning - shew, I need to cut down on the celebratin' - so let's see how a transaction would work. I'll start, someone who is smart finish.

    I pay FindWhat for advertisements. Someone out there does a search on a keyword that I bid on, and - cha ching - they click on my site. Only, since they were unaware that whenu loaded itself onto their PC, whenu redirects them to their site, or pops up an ad.

    Where does FindWhat's relationship with whenu.com come into play? Wouldn't whenu's software steal from my site regardless of a relationship with FindWhat? What I mean is, I don't understand how their relationship works.

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    elbowcreek,

    Must have been a really rough party :rolleyes: [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    I'll explain,

    1. You as a webmaster pay for listings on Findwhat for "targetted" traffic.
    2. Findwhat pops up, via a WhenU pop up, on other SEs and sites with the FindWhat listings (if the end user ALREADY has WhenU loaded on their Computer).
    3. End user clicks a listing and goes to webmaster's site.
    4. Now, if SaveNow pops up while they are on your site or when the end user clicks a link then you are Shoot out of Luck!

    But that is ok with FindWhat because they made their money!

    Haiko

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador
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    My understanding of the process goes something like this...

    Joe Bob Henry searches for "rifle" on Google. Since he has, without his knowledge, downloaded WhenU - a WhenU popup ad comes up displaying Findwhat's avertiser listings.

    Joe Bob clicks through to my affiliate site from this WhenU popup (costing me $$) and as soon as my nifty neat rifle page loads, there is another popup with a link for him to click to get a "special coupon" or "free shipping" on his rifle purchase today (of course WhenU's affiliate code is in this link)....thus stealing my sale!

    Now, if I have this all wrong, I'm sure someone will set me straight. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
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    Something that really burns me -- and to which FindWhat did not respond when I asked them about it -- is that if I pay FindWhat for a clickthrough, with WhenU they can and will steal the same visitor right back again that I just paid for!!!!

    I use Atomz Search on my site, and Atomz is one of the URLs WhenU specifically targets.

    I lowered all the bids in my FindWhat account to the minimum so they are not likely to be in the popups, and when I use up the remaining credit in my account I do not plan to replenish it. I consider parasitic link placement to be theft when it happens to my site, and I am not willing to have my links promoted this way to steal from anyone else.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  9. #9
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    elbowcreek -- suppose that someone (with WhenU installed) is at altavista and does a search on "red widgets" -- in addition to the altavista returns, the WhenU window pops up with search results for red widgets -- where does whenu get those search results? Findwhat. So if you have a bid on findwhat for red widgets, your site just landed in a WhenU window and now, from the enduser's perspective, you're party to the scumware.

    And let's just suppose the person clicked on your red widget link and went to your site... and then decided to buy red widgets through your affiliate link... of course, we already know the person has whenU installed, so when they get to the merchant site, WhenU pops up a window and steals your commission.

    You not only lose the commission, you just paid Findwhat for the pleasure.

    Which is why Findwhat hasn't gotten a penny from me since they declared their loyalty to WhenU and NOT to their customers.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
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    gosh... I guess we were all writing at the same time...lol... think we're a little ticked?

  11. #11
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    blazing mad..., even more mad at the affiliates who continue to put money in Findwhat's pocket - just so they can get robbed of sales by WhenU!!

  12. #12
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Okay, thanks for the explanations, each of you managed to convey some good points. I had understood that whenu was stealing from my site, but I did not understand the role findwhat played in it. Thank you all! (got any tums? advil migraine?ahhhh...I hurt)

    [ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: elbowcreek ]

  13. #13
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Haiko-

    I don't know if you are working on a newsletter, but something that might prove fairly effective in driving home a point with findwhat, and others, would be for you to create a monthly newsletter that promotes the positive things occurring with affiliate marketing, and also covers the darker topics, such as FindWhat's association with whenu. If you could get your 1,000 members to click on an e-mail address and send a letter saying, "Change your policy or I will withdraw from your program", it might have a profound effect. I wouldn't mind getting a monthly newsletter from abestweb.

    -elbowcreek

  14. #14
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    I'll second that (thanks for the explanations). That explains how their traffic has turned to Junk lately!!

    I haven't refunded the account in quite a while, but it looks like it'll still take over a month to run out of funds. Their desperation moves haven't seemed to actually increase traffic...they send a lot less than they used to, actually! And what they DO send apparantly is just getting whisked back away by WhenU according to your explanations.

    Argh, sucks to see what WAS a good PPC go down the tubes! Oh well [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador
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    The newsletter is a great idea! I would love to get really informative affiliate info. Maybe we could all help by submitting articles and such...just so you don't have all the work yourself!

    And, as stated by elbowcreek it would be a great way to reach a lot of affiliates at once with "hot" topics that we could take action on at once.

  16. #16
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Whenu has on their home page a quote from C/Net - 'WhenU is a must have!' Lolololol, and I so respected them until that.

    -elbowcreek

  17. #17
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    Darn it all Anyhow.

    I just bought keywords over there. I didn't get great place at Google this month, and thought I'd better buy some traffic expecially areas where I lost rankage at Gooogle. Darn. :mad: :mad:

    Elizabeth.
    Makes sense about that Amotz search thing, and that would make sense in the logs as Amotz showing up in my stats in higher numbers, and thought would be why, because of Findwhat & When U.

    Does this help this thing from Sgtsearch.com
    Down below.

    < !-- StopText code courtesy SgtSearch.com and Thiefware.com -->


    I've been gradually changes pages, but am no where near finishing all my pages.

    :eek: Better get copying and pasting then.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
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    How many ads does WhenU and Findwhat show of Findwhat 's listings?
    Top 5 results? Top 3?

  19. #19
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    Canfree, that's not the right part of the code. The part that does the job is the CSS part between the "span" tags. I hope that's what you're using!

    Elisabeth Archambault

  20. #20
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    Elizabeth.

    It wouldn't let me put in the code. But It does have the font = stuff in it( font-size: 12px ) I changed the brackets. That I do have


    Oh and Elizabeth, I was searching away through the Parasite Ware forum, and if you don't mind I think I'll use your thing for Atmoz. If that's ok with you.

    Nice Site By the Way [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    :cool:

  21. #21
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    Thanks, Canfree. Yes, do feel free to use, borrow, adapt, whatever, the bit I put in my Atomz results pages about popups. Raising awareness amongst the general surfing population will be A Good Thing, and it will be most effective if we can make the point at the point where they are most likely to encounter the (*&^ things.

    Regards from further east on the prairies,

    Elisabeth

  22. #22
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    So I assume a Boycott of FindWhat is in order. Maybe I should write a review of FindWhat, post in on my site, and pass it around the web.

  23. #23
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    If you do that remember to communicate with them directly as well. They need to hear straight from their advertisers -- lots of them -- that we are not happy with this.

    I've already told them that as long as they are supporting scumware I do not plan to replenish my account when existing funds are used up (and I turned everything down to penny bids, so they won't be profiting much from me in the meantime).

    Elisabeth Archambault

  24. #24
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    i pulled my findwhat listings a couple of weeks ago, i blamed you people for missleading me that this piece of crap was a worthwhile ppc engine (sorry)

    so are we all going to ask for a refund or shall we sit on the fence as usual?

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    "i blamed you people for missleading me that this piece of crap was a worthwhile ppc engine (sorry)~SpaceBandit"

    It was worthwhile at one point... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img] Unfortunately that point has passed!

    I'm just going to let my money there run out. Trying to talk sense to engines seems to be an exercise in beating one's head on the wall... so I figure I'll YELL not with emails but by not replenishing the account! If they lose enough business, then they'll start looking for the reason (or keep their head up their *AHEM* like OverSure and die clueless)!

    [ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

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