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  1. #1
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    I just got a note from American Blind and Wallpaper that my affiliation with them has been terminated for "no sales."

    Here's what I wrote back to them:

    quote:
    I just got a note from you folks that I've been terminated as an affiliate, reason "no sales".

    You should know that I took all your links down when I learned that you had -- and retained -- affiliates who used parasitic link placement methods, such as Morpheus and WhenU. As an affiliate who works hard to build a site that draws traffic, I consider their methods theft, and by working with them you are not exactly demonstrating a high level of business ethics.

    You really ought to think of the logic here - if you allow affiliates such as WhenU and Morpheus to intercept commissions for sales that should rightfully belong to the affiliates who promote you, then dump the affiliates with the real pages for "no sales", there will be nothing left for the parasites to feed on.

    Let me know if you ever make a policy decision to disallow the use of parasitic link placement, and I'll reconsider applying to your program again.

    Elisabeth Archambault


    Funny and sad both at once!

  2. #2
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Way to go Elizabeth ..you tore them a new one. The AFLAC Duck couldn't have said it better when walking out of the barbershop having listened to Yogi Berra's banter ....uuugghhh!

    [ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: EcomCity.com ]

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador mousejockey's Avatar
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    lol Good one Elisabeth [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4
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    Good Job Elizabeth.....You forgot to tell them one thing though...that you sent $3000 dollars worth of sales to 'competing merchant here (if any)'. A merchant that isn't affiliated with scumware/parasiteware. That $3000 dollars could have been theirs if they would have followed the likes of (insert top name merchants that took a stand agains scumware/parasiteware).

    Perhaps they just need a little 'waking up' [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Anyhow, great job on telling them WHY you dropped their program. If enough of us affiliates do it, maybe it will make a difference!

  5. #5
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    >You really ought to think of the logic here - if you allow affiliates such as WhenU and Morpheus to intercept commissions for sales that should rightfully belong to the affiliates who promote you, then dump the affiliates with the real pages for "no sales", there will be nothing left for the parasites to feed on.


    Now that's what's always had me confused - I understand that corporate America is unbelievably short-sighted, but you'd think somebody would recognize this little fact. Short-sighted for a couple years out is one thing, short-sighted for a week out is nothing but weird.

  6. #6
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Chock it up to another affiliate manager like Martha Stewert had who rahter be doing her nails, playing online games or reading a romance novel on her first job in the advertising business. Probably spent all her time on feeding coupons and daily specials to the parasites and only updated her batched sales 2 times a month. Wanna bet she/he doesn't even know this site exists.

  7. #7
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    Herby asked me this morning if I’d like to respond to your comment, and then didn’t post it. Oh well.

    <“You should know that I took all your links down when I learned that you had -- and retained -- affiliates who used parasitic link placement methods, such as Morpheus and WhenU. As an affiliate who works hard to build a site that draws traffic, I consider their methods theft, and by working with them you are not exactly demonstrating a high level of business ethics.”>

    Here are the facts. American Blind and Wallpaper Factory was still posted on your site this morning. And the link worked! In the lower right hand corner of this page is one of our banners, which also works.



    You had two sales last year for around $400 and none this year. You were dropped for poor performance.

    American Blind and Wallpaper Factory does not support scumware. We do not work with Gator, Morpheus, or Buyersport. WhenU has changed their business model and we are in the process of dropping them. Unlike the other companies mentioned above, we couldn't prove the allegations against WhenU.

    Your problem isn’t with predatory scumware, or theft of your sales, or American Blind and Wallpaper Factory. Your problem is you didn’t generate any sales while “working hard to build a site that draws traffic.”

    Hummmmm, so let’s see. You claim that you removed American Blind and Wallpaper Factory from your site, when you really didn’t. You mouthed off some rubbish about how good a job you do, which you couldn't prove by me. And you think, wrongly, that American Blind and Wallpaper Factory supports parasites.

    We paid out a good deal in commissions to over 130 affiliates last month. Most are small sites, but they do a good job of sending traffic. We respect them, and do our best to give them the support they need.

    Nice try, Archambault, but sorry, I have no sympathy for you.

    Arden Kirschner
    Affiliate Program Manager
    American Blind and Wallpaper Factory

  8. #8
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    http://buckworks.com/home-garden.html

    Here is the page link in case you want to see for yourself

  9. #9
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    Watcher,

    >Unlike the other companies mentioned above, we couldn't prove the allegations against WhenU.

    Thats your problem.

    Christ I'm glad I removed you losers long ago.

    Were you the ones who said 'we don't allow url re-directs because if you take the customer straight to the product they want they might miss all the other nice things we have'?

    Or was that some other loser??

    I

    [ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  10. #10
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    quote:

    Your problem is you didn’t generate any sales while “working hard to build a site that draws traffic



    You can look in Google and see that Elisabeth has good rankings on most of her pages. So traffic is not a problem. It seems to ME that YOU had the problem generating sales. Plus, that is most likely backed up by the position of your link on her site. Right near the bottom where all the slackers go.

    quote:
    We paid out a good deal in commissions to over 130 affiliates last month.


    [SARCASM]That many?[/SARCASM]

    Mike

  11. #11
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    quote:
    Here is the page link in case you want to see for yourself


    Gosh, I missed those. They're gone now, believe me!

    For the record, that is not a page I have focused on much, and it's not one that has good rankings in Google. So his claims of non-performance are legitimate. But when they were on my front page they didn't perform any better. And I did take those links down, several months ago.

    quote:
    We respect them, and do our best to give them the support they need.


    I'm pretty sure the "you're dumped" note was the first personal communication I ever received from you folks. If that's your definition of support, it's sure different from mine!

    Here's a thought: I bet you'd get a lot better results from "under-performing" affiliates if you touched base with them and looked for ways to help and encourage them. Perhaps you could go look up what "liaison" means. And "potential." You might learn something useful.

    quote:
    WhenU has changed their business model and we are in the process of dropping them.
    So you admit you have been doing business with them.

    It has been publicly documented for MONTHS how WhenU was using parasitic methods to replace other affiliates' links with their own. And you are only NOW "in the process" of dropping them?

    You can think what you want about my effectiveness. My bottom line is that I prefer to promote merchants with higher ethical standards than you have demonstrated.

    Elisabeth Archambault

    [ 06-27-2002: Message edited by: buckworks.com ]

  12. #12
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    Attn:
    Arden Kirschner
    Affiliate Program Manager
    American Blind and Wallpaper Factory

    You are a friggin' joke!

  13. #13
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    Arden,
    Glad you could make it over to address this issue. I can't follow why you are being so hard on Elizabeth. You contacted her and said you were dropping her because of no sales. She replies saying she pulled your links because of your affiliate with scumware.


    What is wrong with that? She didn't trash you, did she? She didn't trash your company in your post, did she?

    You admit in one sentence that you are aligned with Whenu, which is parasiteware...and deny it in another.

    I've known Elizabeth for a long time, and I know she knows what she is doing. I also know that she sells her *ss off with other programs.


    I also know that I will be removing my links to you. Hell, maybe I just use that ad space to throw in some Tiger Direct links...there is a merchant who can actually turn traffic into sales, and there is an affiliate manager that has proven over and over again that he wants his affiliates to succeed. Hell, his last message to me was 'Tom Let me know how i can help...' and 'Tom, What can I do to make you money'.

    Instead of coming in here and trashing members, why not pay attention to what is going on and see how an affiliate program is actually run?

  14. #14
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    TH,

    I was invited to address her comment, which makes some false statements. The major one is that we are aligned with “parasiteware” WhenU. We tested WhenU hard when this issue came to the surface months ago and could not verify the allegation. They produced well for us, but have changed their business model and no longer bring in much business. I will drop them soon as well.

    I could replace them with buyersport, and pick up the slack. After reading some of these posts, it is a compelling thought. But I’m with you regarding parasites, and until I’m shown buyersport is straight, I won’t work with them. We may disagree regarding WhenU; Morpheus is completely different.

    I don’t have a problem with Archambault dropping out of our program. As a business owner, that is her prerogative and her decision. It was also my decision to remove unproductive members of our affiliate program. It wasn’t personal; I reviewed the numbers and removed those sites that didn’t perform. I also expect affiliates to remove us if we don’t perform. It’s business, and we are all here to make money, so why waste time and effort on something unproductive.

    I don’t believe I trashed Archambault. She left our program and decided to whine about it in public. Her comment regarding ABWF working with parasite affiliates was wrong, and I responded. She also bragged that she had dumped our links some time ago, which was incorrect. And her later comment regarding the public documentation of WhenU and it’s parasitic ways is only discussion, not documentation. As I said earlier, we tested WhenU extensively and couldn’t prove anything.



    She is correct, we have not been communicating with our affiliates. Culling unproductive affiliates is the first step to correcting that problem.

    I do appreciate the constructive criticism.

    It is the end of the month, and I have a great deal of work to do, making sure everyone in our various programs gets paid what they’re due. That is what is important to me for the next two weeks. Good luck to you all.

    Arden Kirschner

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Arden don't get ruffled by our strong stand against the thievery performed by the likes of Whenu.com/ShopNow or Morpheus. They have threatened to put us out of business by hijacking our traffic at the point of sale and have seriously impacted or sales by jumping in front of our customers.

    Merchants falling for their sales pitch -"get exposure on your competitions web sites" are motivated and blinded by greed. Little do you know that the BHO (browser helper object) Adwarez virus they install to take over the consumers browser also monitizes every hyperlink path into your site. Everyone!

    This means you potentially pay these con men, with no site traffic of their own, for sales you'd have made where no commission was involved...as in a listing link from a search engine you paid for or even e-mail links you sent to your repeat customers. Yes if they installed anyone of the Duperaffiliate applications or got one installed without their knowledge you get double dipped on all sales by their attaching their Affiliate Id cookie regardless of source.

    You thought they were your top performing affiliates when in reality they are picking your pockets and decreasingg your profit margins on every sale you make. Care to devulge how many actual affiliate checks your cutting this month. If the mumber doesn't increase every month like TigerDirect's then your not doing your job. The legislation now in place to close down the e-mail opt-out marketers and spammers together with the new ruling allowing music companies to DOS attack,plant tracking copyright downloads and disrupt the P2P networks with phoney files will doom that eyeball channel. The incent sites -loyality clubs -coupon/rebaters and prize sites are all under FTC investigation for failure to perform and being fronts for spammers. When those turds get flushed and your down to 10 affiliates flushed with them your out of the affiliate merchant business. Care to generate 100% of your site traffic by other paid advertising or SE means?

  16. #16
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    quote:
    I will drop them soon as well.
    Yesterday you used the present tense when you said you were "in the process" of dropping WhenU. Now it's some time in the future, and only because they "changed their business model."

    quote:
    we tested WhenU extensively and couldn’t prove anything.


    That puzzles me, because a lot of other people had no trouble seeing problems with their methods.

    Regarding documentation, here's a page that has been up for several months:
    http://www.thiefware.com/whenu/

    The screenshots at http://www.thiefware.com/whenu/whenu.savenow.htm clearly show what WhenU was doing to the pages of other affiliates, and the potential for intercepting visitors.

    If you never recognized a problem with that, then all I can say is that you are not seeing the world through an affiliate's eyes.

    Elisabeth Archambault

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador webmarm's Avatar
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    Well, I think I'll just turn around and go yank those new links of mine to Amercian Blind and Wallpaper on a new site. Just signed up with them last week.

    Geesh, my site will take a few months to draw traffic, and a bit more to tweek ad copy to make sure conversions result from the traffic... and by then I see that I'll probably be dropped and then called a whiner!

    Better replace the links now and find a different merchant who won't publicly quote what I may or may not have earned in a year, or use such "polite" language as "mouthing off rubbish", ahem.

    Just for the record, sir. Elisabeth Archambault is one of the most honest, hard working, quality folks in the affiliate business that I know.

    You most likely just earned yourself 4,000 non-affiliates! Good bye!

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador iucpxleps's Avatar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by webmistress:
    Well, I think I'll just turn around and go yank those new links of mine to Amercian Blind and Wallpaper on a new site. Just signed up with them last week.

    Geesh, my site will take a few months to draw traffic, and a bit more to tweek ad copy to make sure conversions result from the traffic... and by then I see that I'll probably be dropped and then called a whiner!

    Better replace the links now and find a different merchant who won't publicly quote what I may or may not have earned in a year, or use such "polite" language as "mouthing off rubbish", ahem.

    Just for the record, sir. Elisabeth Archambault is one of the most honest, hard working, quality folks in the affiliate business that I know.

    You most likely just earned yourself 4,000 non-affiliates! Good bye!



    ditto

  19. #19
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    How come 95% of all CJ, Snare and BeScrewed merchants believe theft is legal...

    Did I miss something?

  20. #20
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    Methinks American Blind and Wallpaper will be dropping WhenU pretty fast now. It'll have nothing to do with any sudden urge towards honesty and more to do with the theft and breach of copyright damages the unnrepentant b*****s have just exposed themselves to.

    They've been aware of these issues for a while, right? Its not like, because of some oversight on our part they really didn't know?

    Thats what I mean when I say their failure to notice they were a party to thieving our commissions and other merchant's sales was *their* problem. If they really could find any problem with WhenU its not like they couldn't have asked us to demonstate.

    I seriously doubt that pleading 'negligence' is going to be very impressive as a defence :/

    Watcher, perhaps you'd be better mouthing off on Herbys board? They don't deal with scum there, they negotiate with it and play for time. You'd fit right in.


    I

    [ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  21. #21
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    Watcher,

    I hope you don't mind a few comments, but I would urge you to be careful... Here are a few reasons:

    1) The affiliates on this board are extremely active in the affiliate world.

    2) Word of mouth advertising, as you know, is the absolute best kind. Negative word of mouth is the absolute worst.

    -------------------------------------

    Now, I'm just a bit curious on why any Merchant would disable an affiliate for "poor performance". I guess, I just don't understand that concept. An affiliate is similar to a commission-only sales person. Why would you fire a sales person that you didn't have to pay unless sales were made?

    Why would you turn down sales like that?
    Why not just work with the salesperson to find ways of boosting sales?

    Please understand, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. I just really don't understand why an affiliate should ever be disabled for poor performance.

    Thanks,

    [ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: Shawn-Overstock.com ]

  22. #22
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    A quote I once heard..

    "You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance."
    - Edward Flaherty.


    ...seems mysteriously appropriate here.



    [ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: Icicle ]

  23. #23
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    quote:
    Now, I'm just a bit curious on why any Merchant would disable an affiliate for "poor performance". I guess, I just don't understand that concept. An affiliate is similar to a commission-only sales person. Why would you fire a sales person that you didn't have to pay unless sales were made?




    Because "culling" is easier than putting in the time, money, and effort to grow a *successful* and profitable affiliate program. For all the programmers, web designers, and other company staff Arden boasts of, it sounds as though Affilate sales are a low enough priority at this "brick and mortar" that American Blind only has one person to staff the Affiliate program. They have to keep the number of affiliates down to the 130 that are converting in order to be able to handle the work load.

    [ 06-28-2002: Message edited by: eaglefire ]

  24. #24
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    It seems to me like he wants to close down ABWF's affiliate program totally, and has decided that being insulting/condescending to affiliates is the most economical way to do it.

    Well, it'll work...he won't even have to hit the "drop" button to see the program go to zero affiliates.

    Then he can say the program was a "failure" and close it.

  25. #25
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    lol,
    ---------------------------
    We tested WhenU hard when this issue came to the surface months ago and could not verify the allegation. They produced well for us, but have changed their business model and no longer bring in much business. I will drop them soon as well.
    ----------------------------

    lol, sounds like whenu's being dropped for poor performance, not ethical concerns, lol.

    Does Amazon sell wallpaper, lol?

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