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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think it would be a nice gesture to help in some way, don't you?

    I know you have some reservations about the price of the ticket. Therefore, I sugest that you make the same donation that you had already planed on before you knew what the ticket price was.

    It will show your support of and respect for the members of this community who voted if you help the elected representatives financially.

    If you have already made a donation, congratulations on your good sportsmanship! But, at least tell us that you donated. We would respect and enjoy news like that.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on November 02, 2002 at 10:09 AM.]

  2. #2
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Ssanf.

    Why should Haiko say how much or even if he has donated? A persons donations are a private matter. I have donated and I sure as hell am not going to tell you or anybody else how much.

    If somebody wants to tell then so be it, but there should never be a request on a public.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  3. #3
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think it would be nice to know that ABW as an organization (ie: Haiko) has shown support to the candidates. The amount isn't the issue.

    It might mend some fences and show good sportsmanship.

    This is hardly private. Other organizations and people have been proud to announce their support. The lack of such an announcement from ABW damns by omission.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sandra,

    Your choice of words seems to imply that you are specificly asking ME, myself, not ABW, is that correct?

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  5. #5
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    You are the owner of ABW. I am asking you as the owner of ABW, not as the representative of the members of ABW, to please show your support of the elected representatives in some manner whether it be a cash donation or a statement of support or both.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  6. #6
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Ssanf.

    When/if I donate it is something between myself and whoever/whatever I donate to, I do not broadcast the information to all and sundry. In the same light I do not expect anybody else to disclose this information unless they personally want to.

    I most certainly would not dream of asking if a person has donated as it is a matter between the person and their own concience.
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The lack of such an announcement from ABW damns by omission <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    This is an utter load of [put your own expletives in]

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  7. #7
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    There is nothing mutually exclusive about Haiko donating on behalf of the entity that he owns and also making a private donation.

    That would be private.

    I am asking him as the owner of ABW to show his support for the elected representatives. This I believe is quite reasonable.

    If he does not support the candidates, I am sorry but I would prefer not to know why at this point in time.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  8. #8
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Ssanf
    I would recomend you remove this from your credo.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Teach the young. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am sure most good American people would not like to see their children being taught to disregard the basic privacy rights that most Americans hold so dear.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  9. #9
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Gordon, I respect you and understand your concerns for privacy but you are off the mark on this one. What Haiko does as an individual is indeed private. What he does as the owner of ABW on this matter is and should be public. Lack of support is also public and certainly will be interpreted in a negative light, as if he is against our representatives.

    The very least that could be hoped for is a statement of support.

    As I said, he can make a private donation as well as a public one.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  10. #10
    15 years and counting
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    Ssanf,
    Haiko has been doing more to our affiliate community than anybody else, on his own money. I've seen you learning from his (this) board and promoting your own business. Do you mind to tell us what you did to help him? Your post is not helping Elizabeth.
    To quote Gordon
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Why should Haiko say how much or even if he has donated? A person donations are a private matter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's not the big that eat the small... it's the fast that eat the slow. Jennings & Haughton

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador
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    Whether a person or company wishes to announce or not announce a donation offer to help is up to them. If they have not commented publicly that is THEIR choice.
    And if you have a problem with that TOUGH BEANS!!!!
    I, and others would/may also like to help out but we may have circumstances or reasons that we can't. And it is our damn business, not everyone else who is in here to be made aware of what we do one way or another. Give it a rest!

    WW

    It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

  12. #12
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Yep, I'll give it a rest. I think it is a shame that support has to be asked for. It should have been announced the day after the election.

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  13. #13
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Ssanf,
    Some of the biggest companies and richest people in the world make anonymous donations amounting to many many millions of dollars, why should Haiko be made to disclose this information when others are not?

    Sometimes your thoughts on matters like this...., I'm saying no more.

    [edited to add]<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I think it is a shame that support has to be asked for. It should have been announced the day after the election <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If you read the boards carefuly you would see there were numerous offers made precisely for this, even prior to the vote.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    It's too bad personal vendettas are used to stir the pot even more. I've said what needs to be said in regards to this post just as Gordon has stated.
    Ssanf you can have this topic all to yourself again.
    WW

    It was so cold last winter that I saw a lawyer with his hands in his own pockets.

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador affiliatemakeover's Avatar
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    I thought you left Ssanf?

  16. #16
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yep, I'll give it a rest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This thread that is.



    Why would I leave?

    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

  17. #17
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I would like to lock or delete this thread. Is any of the abw community willing to admit that moderation is a needed thing at times?

    I think this is one of those times

  18. #18
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I certainly feel moderation is needed at times. I also think this thread should be deleted. But it is only my opinion.

    Travel safe
    Gordon
    YouTrek

  19. #19
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    Heyder....

    If you won't lock it, I will....

    Sandra, it is very clear what you are trying to achieve....

    It is also very clear what Haiko has already achieved...

    Give it a rest....go and make some more money and donate away....

    Andy Rodriguez,
    Online Advertising / Affiliate Marketing Manager

    TigerDirect.com
    P: (305) 415-2313
    E: andy.rodriguez@tigerdirect.com
    ICQ: 175010
    AIM: miamitigercub

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador Ron Bechdolt's Avatar
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    If you all feel this thread should be deleted, then do so!!! But if you do so, then be consistant. You will also needt to go back two-three weeks ago and delete all those posts that you also disagree with.

    Ron - 7 Days A Week Marketing

    Every day is a chance to learn something new and a opportunity to teach someone else.

  21. #21
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    I donated because I voted for Elizabeth and I felt it was right for me to do so. I didn't do it as a member of ABW, I did it on my own. The ammount is my business.

    I do have to say though, in the past there have been times when I would have liked to lend financial support to something, but I just didn't have the money to do so.

    I think when you do something like this, it is from the heart. And the reward comes in the doing - not the recognition of doing it.

    So, let each give as they can and feels fit. I would never want anyone to feel badly because of another "roll call."

    I feel like it is pretty evident here with all the "crap" that went on who feels what, and that is ok. We each have an opinion.

    I don't think there is need for more moderation. There has been way to much allready. And when you fall into that kind of mode it makes people angry, and like things are being hidden.

    They say it takes 2 to tango. Ok, if you don't agree with a post, state your position and move on. No need to stay around and fight. No need to make an a$$ out of yourself over and over again.

    I will state (because I am sure if I don't someone else will - lol) that I have not always followed this advice. But I will also say, that in having stepped away from the "fray" and finding peace, it has been the best thing.

    So, let the question stand.
    Let the answers stand. Move on.
    Let it be....

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    But if the arrow is straight and the point is slick,
    It can pierce through dust no matter how thick. dylan

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I have held back from posting again for a few reasons.

    I would like the opportunity to post the following:


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think when you do something like this, it is from the heart. And the reward comes in the doing - not the recognition of doing it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Absolutely! But when friends say or imply worse than expletives to you ... nothing makes sense! Look at your last email to me, after your change of heart I wanted to talk to you but the numbers I had went to ans machines then Icicle's verbiage was posted by you (no I'm not attacking anyone) and I gave up, yes, LAS(member) I gave up!

    It is very obvious that the subtrefuge and my hurt were not an equation for success, for anyone. Thankfully my sisters' wedding was on the 18th and travel times allowed me to stay away from the attacks. I returned and have been offline and working the phones instead, because some of the people who I thought I knew just weren't real. My goal, however, remains intact!

    Many times, on this board, I have apologized when I have been wrong and tried to do so with the roll call in the aff only, many nights I wonder why I pay (yes I've lost serious money for the past 14 months and a part of of my life; I have been on 16-18 hours a day) so while you all are making pages, I have built ABW and spent and alerted and done PR and averted multiple attacks, DoS, legal and PIs.

    Allow me to reiterate ... I was screwed by CJ and learned about CJU, I was never was banned (even with my contrariety opinions, vocal attitudes and fake curses (FCUK) and when they closed it(no not my fault), I did something that none else did, set up a forum, continued the fight against the thieves, IDT etc, and continued to set up parasiteware.com to elevate all our awareness, merchants and affiliates, to this activity and thankfully it burgeoned into the meeting.

    Yes there are many other boards, some took major stances against scumware and then died, WHY is that? some didn't even mention it, WHY is that?, some haven't been active for year(s) WHY is that? And some are pasties of mine.

    The only thing I wanted is change ... so that we all could compete fairly, Why is THAT?

    Look at that impetus and look into what is, not the postulations and extrapolations look at the realities and the methodologies and there you will see, what I am ... A fellow affiliate who is pissed and can and does make things happen.

    Respectfully,

    Haiko

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    I will post my original answer to Sandra when I reopen this thread, later tonight.

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

    [This message was edited by Haiko on November 02, 2002 at 11:05 PM.]

  24. #24
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sandra,

    I wish you realize that my being told numerous times that my opinion is my opinion and its uselessness, not to mention the various posts of certain members on other boards, I find it rather confusing why in the world you would want "my" support.

    Additionally, the discussions to "address" the issue have gone from suing the parasites, then the networks and reasons being anywhere from civil torts to allegations of copyright infringement. I favor change and productive change for all, do I know what has developed or deteriorated (as the case may be) on the other board? NO! I only know that Elisabeth will be speaking at 9:10-9:30 am on Novemebr 7th to a panel where I see only two networks doing something and only one of them doing it contractually. Of the other representataives, I know that three others are on the side of change and to make this meeting a truely productive one, those prior affiliate discussions just don't belong.*

    My support is for the cause of change, since I'm not privy to the information currently being shared by some affiliate members and Elisabeth, I, obviously, can not directly support her, although I think she will do a good job at what ever she represents.

    Financial support, hmmm, the way you expressed your views in this thread, it almost appears that I have to pay

    <font size="2" face="Verdana">Haiko


    The secret of success is constancy of purpose. ~ Disraeli
    </font></p>

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    So you do not support Elizabeth any more because she is posting on another board that you do not have access to and you fear her position may have changed since she was elected. Am I reading what you said correctly?

    Well, I certainly cannot speak for her or any one but myself. But, I want you to know that I do not believe she has changed one iota in her own beliefs.

    What she will say, I do not know because I do not know the content of the papers she received. Nor, do I believe that anyone else knows the content of those papers except Shawn and Elizabeth who are trying to compile the many opinions expressed into an understandable statement. (Except where the positions were posted by the writers, themselves, of course.)

    It is my belief that she will make her statements based on the content of those papers and that she will act as a true representative of the affiliates to the best of her ability.

    I personally believe that she has the integrity to live up to that trust.

    If she were posting only here, you still would not be privy to the position papers. That being the case, I do not understand why you would care that she posts at another board, perhaps many other boards.

    I am sure she has private e-mails and conversations as well. If she were all that malable to change, it would happen whether or not there is another board.

    If conversations from which you are excluded deter you from supporting someone, then the only possible person that you can support is yourself.

    Thank you for answering the question.



    The Wolf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Cooperate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your feelings. Leave your mark.

    [This message was edited by SSanf on November 03, 2002 at 03:07 AM.]

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