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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador
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    Check This:

    quote:
    Hello,
    Due to lower than expected sales and rising overhead costs, we are lowering commissions to 8%. We could not continue doing business with such an extremely low profit margin.

    Also, cookies will be lowered to 1 week due to the fact that many affiliates are directly competing with us in the advertising arena.

    I apologize for the inconvenience. Feel free to email me directly at phillip@allwinebaskets.com

    thank you




    Commission cut almost in half ... I don't think so ... They are history... Is this one of yours MonstrPhil?

    :mad: :mad:

    Regards,
    Dave

  2. #2
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    Is he serious? Affiliate ARE his advertising. Why try to compete against your own sales force?

    [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: SpongeBo ]

  3. #3
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    quote:
    are directly competing with us in the advertising arena.



    Oh, gee... our affiliates are grabbing all of the choice keywords that we should have, and most of them are placing better than we are. This means that we have to pay them a commission on every sale, where if WE get the sale, we don't have to pay a commission, and we get to keep it all to ourselves.

    Sounds pretty familiar to me.

    What a maroon.

    CodeJockey.

  4. #4
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    What I don't understand is they have other wine basket programs and their commish is still 15% with the same 30day cookie.. I suspect Phil will be here to explain soon :mad: :mad:

    Dave

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    You forgot one Chuck ....

    (7) Drop any program that cuts their commission in half and cuts cookie duration by 75% [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Dave

  7. #7
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    There is always a positive to this, though. The ticket now, that the holiday season is coming to an end, is volume. If I have the traffic, make the sales, then my value goes up, and so does a request for a "private deal" with merchants. Bizness is bizness. I think we all need to prepare ourselves for this, as the holiday season dwindles. I think there are more merchants to come that will be lowering their commission rates. You got to play "lets make a deal" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    "Also, cookies will be lowered to 1 week due to the fact that many affiliates are directly competing with us in the advertising arena."

    I have to agree that that's BS!!! For taking the risk of paid dud clicks and spending ad money, THIS is the reward?!?

    Glad I didn't sign up to promote that...

    Big Chuck--Some places DO lower commissions a bit when the season ends, but this one is a bit extreme! Private deals are cool, but when there's merchants where you can get a good offer just by clicking Join Program, the glow tends to diminish...a private deal from an 8% commission program is likely to end up not being as sweet as it should be!

    And Phil, yes a ONE WEEK cookie is too short even for me! 30 days is one thing, but 7 is too costly (for me). I've found sales coming into my account quite a ways after a week (since last click)!

  9. #9
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    Is gift services all his real estate? I thought it was just allwinebaskets? I mean all the other web sites are under "gift services", or not? It might be just more than allwinebaskets...

    [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  10. #10
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    quote:
    Also, cookies will be lowered to 1 week due to the fact that many affiliates are directly competing with us in the advertising arena.


    DUH!! ... It's called an affiliate program :rolleyes:

    quote:
    Some places DO lower commissions a bit when the season ends, but this one is a bit extreme!


    I'd say so :mad:

    Dave

  11. #11
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    In other words, this merchant is saying, "Thanks for the effort guys. We appreciate all the traffic and branding that you have provided, now kiss our butts!"

    Prediction: These schmucks will be pulling their program from CJ pretty soon. Obviously, they view affiliates as liabilities and not assets.

    Mike

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Prediction: These schmucks will be pulling their program from CJ pretty soon


    Thats a shame, too. I have made an entire site, with finely tuned pages ready for the search engines, promoting their ads. This is the crap I hate; the constant removing/replacing of links/ads. Luckily, there are plenty of gift merchants around, at CJ and elsewhere. I guess I need to start removing, and replacing. Haiko said he placed 1000's of their ads, or something like that. if that's true, I feel sorry for you. I'd hate it.

  13. #13
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    Hopefully Phil's other programs won't end up with 1-week cookies, and my commission rate won't be going into Har-Hars-Ville! (Yes, 8% is in HarHarsVille! Any statements I made without the knowledge of the "less than 10%-ness", were incomplete!)

    [fixed UBB code]

    [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Leader ]

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Chuck,

    I place over 300 Links to various "Gift tree" offerings only a *few* were for allwinebaskets *phew*.

    We all know it is NOT Phil's decision but the Boss's!

    ------------
    Phil,

    Your boss can kill Allwinebaskets for no one will advertise that ... he is foolish, look at the competition (not the affiliates), you have to tell him/her to get his/her head out of his/her but ... affiliate marketing is still the cheapest method of customer acquisition and to do what he/she just did was asinine!

    Haiko

  15. #15
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    I tried to get here and tell all of you before the email went out. All I can say is Im sorry.

    When I came aboard, I had a direction and visions for this affiliate program. Aparently, that was a different road from what management had in mind. They won't schedule any meetings with me till after Xmas, so anything that I say now is pointless. I am trying to contact everyone and move them over to gifttree-where the commissions are higher. I dont understand the reasoning on dropping cookies and commissions right before Xmas, but it's their decesion-I just have to do cleanup.

    I told him that we would lose over 80% of our affiliates and repercussions will be felt in our other programs. He didn't seem to care.

    Anyone need a graphic designer?

  16. #16
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    Phil:

    You're a good guy, and you understand that affiliates have invested a great deal of time and effort to build sites, get them in search engines, paid for PPC, etc.

    That's why we're dropping allwinebaskets now--to prove your point to management.

  17. #17
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    quote:
    He didn't seem to care


    Why would anyone want to work with a person who thinks like that.

    Phil,

    Let him read this thread. With an attitude like that ... I'll be surprised if anyone supports his programs.

    By the way ... Why is is just this program that is not profitable. I asume all the baskets come out of the same place.

    Regards,
    Dave

  18. #18
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    whew! I thought, originally, this reduction was with all the programs ya'll have. Phil, you got a tough job.

    I have learned something important that I will share with you: you can not base your decisions on appeasement. PERIOD. That would be us, the web publishers, and to some extent, your company. Your mission is to make your company a profit. Your boss did what he felt was the right thing to do, and each of us will make a deicision what we feel is right. Those decisions are based upon, at least for me, the almighty dollar. If your company's web sites/products make me money, then I'm cool with that. If it is not profitable, then of course I would have to find companies/products to promote that are. So far, ya'll have been a good investment of my time, and web space. I wont "X" you out yet - lol - 'cause I'll have to admit that your are one of the better affiliate managers I've dealt with. I think you are more aware than most of what dirty tricks we (us web publishers) have to put up with in this business. Now, all this doesnt mean we're going to take long walks in the moon-light together, so don't start thinking anything. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

    [ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Big Chuck ]

  19. #19
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Phil,

    You gotta go in there and demand special deals for performing affiliates!

    See what you can do, get a double (coffee or tequila [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]!

    Haiko

  20. #20
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    Phil is caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

    At 15% plus 3% of that for CJ and the $250 to play the CJ game, along with the fact that
    wine is traditionally maxed at a 50% profit margin, add in the cost of the basket and the 'make it pretty' stuff and Phil's looking at only a 25% profit margin and this number is before you subtract salaries, overhead and such. Not much profit left if any.

    8% is probably fair. With the 2.4% extra for CJ and the $250, Phil's still looking at raising his profit margin by only about 5%.

    As for lowering the cookie - that's where his boss is screwing the affiliates.

    Also, selling wine baskets is weak due to the over all low profit margin and the fact that wine is something you bring as a gift for the host, not something you really give
    in a basket.

    selling all wine baskets over thenet is not a real good idea in the first place. There is not enough profit in them at a price that they might actually sell at.

  21. #21
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    they do well by me.

  22. #22
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    "(wine is...) not something you really give
    in a basket.~Fred"

    Let's see...
    According to WordTracker, there's 479 searches daily on "wine gift baskets" and another 52 for the singular.

    That'd be 14,849 per month (479x31) for the plural term...

    Not exactly swarming with traffic, but certainly not unworkable, either! Apparantly quite a few want to give it in a basket...

  23. #23
    Content $ Queen Ebudae's Avatar
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    Phil, I had quit with the giftbaskets because I got a letter saying they did not want "poor performers" which I felt would be me, considering I have a small site. So, I said, well the heck with them.

    Then you came along and said some nice things and I thought well, ok, maybe they aren't that bad.

    Lately I have been thinking I would really like to offer some flowers and gift baskets so I was thinking about joining again. Then all this mess with the wine starts up.

    Phil, you seem like a nice guy but this really hurts the credibility of the company as a whole. I feel for you, it must be hard.

    Will be looking for flowers elsewhere.

    Vicki [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  24. #24
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    Vicki,

    If I understand right, the reduction in cookie duration, and sales commissions was just with AllWineBaskets. The flower web sites/products/ads were not included in the redution - I think.

  25. #25
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    14,000 searches out of 500 million people is not the best of senarios.

    No doubt an affiliate could sell wine baskets and make some money and at 15% make a reasonable commission per basket.

    But merchant can't unless he is selling direct. Figure a basket cost the customer $60
    plus $6 to ship UPS ground.

    Total profit to all is at best $30. At 15% or $9.00 to affiliates, plus $2.70 for CJ, which leaves $18.30.

    Then the merchant has to sell 14 baskets to cover the $250 monthly nut at CJ.

    If the CR is 1% out of 14,000 we are talking
    140 baskets less the 14 for CJ and we have
    126 at $18.30 or $2305.80 profit before salaries and overhead.

    Not exactly enough to pay for space, technology and people.

    And this was for the keyword 'wine gift' which could be an opener, rack, cooler, etc, not necessarily a 'basket.'

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