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June 28th, 2004, 09:42 AM #1
My oldest (13) got a D in math and is recommended to go to summer school. She passes the year either way but obviously won't have the skills for next year. School is a big social thing to her, Boys, clothes etc.
She will have to go to a high school, by bus also(shes in junior/middle school) but looks much older. Men of all ages gawk at her, it makes me sick. I think that on one hand, send her, but on the other hand it will be a big social/boy thing!!
Any opinion from other parents??
June 28th, 2004, 10:53 AM #2
What's the reason your daughter failed math? And - what math was she taking?
Sometimes kids can get that far in school and still not have a grasp on the basic facts. Before making a decision I would find out exactly what skills she doesn't have that caused her to fail.
Does she know her multiplication tables without thinking? Does she know her addition tables without thinking? Test her with flash cards and see.
If kids don't have those basic skills down (and many don't) then math will only get progressively worse throughout school.
That's where I'd start.
The big shots are only the little shots who keep shooting.
June 28th, 2004, 11:09 AM #3
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- January 18th, 2005
I would suggest tutoring instead of the "stigma of summer school".
There are a lot of great programs and or you can make a summer arrangement with her math teacher for special tutoring sessions - CHAT up that school counselor and find out who she recommends for tutoring. IF your school counselor recommends summer school "FIRE their stupid ass" and seek the yellow pages!
Tutoring normally takes place a few times a week dependant on the childâ€™s needs. The irony is that most of the tutors are teachers within your district looking for extra income - or they are new teachers still enjoying there job.
June 28th, 2004, 11:52 AM #4
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- January 18th, 2005
- Winterpeg, the Mosquito Capital of Canada
Send her to school or tutoring
Just something to prove a point that the grades are the reason for the "stigma of summer school".
A summer free of any school or tutoring should not be a reward for a D
June 28th, 2004, 01:24 PM #5
I decide when the pigs fly!
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- January 18th, 2005
- New York, USA
I would suggest tutoring also. I'm not a parent, but I did have to attend summer school for algebra many, many years ago. I thought I was a math idiot until I took algebra in college and got an A-. I hadn't suddenly gotten smarter; I was fortunate to encounter a college professor who knew how to teach algebra, unlike the teachers I had in High School.
Summer school is dismal. No one wants to be there and the atmosphere is not conducive to learning. If you check with local colleges you might find an inexpensive tutor. If possible try to get a trained Kaplan instructor (off the books, so to speak), as they know a ton of shortcuts and "tricks" which will later help your daughter with her SATs.
June 28th, 2004, 01:35 PM #6
Pshaw, math, yech. My first opinion is don't worry about it. The math teacher who gave ME a D is now making less than me and certiainly having less fun doing it.
I will admit, though, that the others (especially Zimmy) are right that if she doesn't have the foundations learned, it'll end up being a string of Ds in math-related subjects until she's released, er, graduates, from school. That can cause frustration if she later gets an interest in something like chemistry which is literally infested with algebra problems. So, the importance of being able to do higher math is directly related to what other subjects she may want to learn later.
If you want her to get a better grade, I'd pick summer school over a tutor, but that's because of my experiences in this geographic area. Your area may have a different situation. (Edit--looking up after hitting Post, I see that Rhea had the opposite experience as I did.)
But around here, the only people willing to do tutoring who weren't booked solid were those who weren't making it on their school salary--which were not the ones who actually knew how to do tutoring!
On the other hand, there were more choices of where to go to summer school. I spent one summer at what was the best district in the area (IMO) and their teachers were quite good!
Needless to say by my opening remark, algebra was not the class I ended up taking that summer.
For algebra, I ended up with a tutor. That guy said about 10 words to me about how to do a problem, and had me spend an hour doing problems while he talked my mother's ear off complaining about the phone company!! $60/hour for someone to give me homework and have me do it at his place instead of at home was a big ripoff. I learned more about why he hated the phone company and was suing it than I did about algebra, since THAT was interesting, and therefore I couldn't take my ears off that conversation. To this day (20 yrs later, geez that makes me feel old!) I can remember that conversation, while the algebra formula has long gone to the ash heap. (Needless to say, we didn't go back to pay to listen to him jaw about more unrelated subjects!)
I know there have got to be some good tutors out there, but unless you can get a really solid recommendation I'd say to go with the summer school. At least in a classroom environment the teachers usually stick to business!There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway
June 28th, 2004, 03:14 PM #7
Well Lola since I'm quite Biased to summer school. I"ll put down my thoughts on this subject. In High School (Jr year) I was at the D range in my Math class and they didn't suggest summer school. I just studied and got help at every lunch and passed my Math Class. Now the only problem I have with School/summer school these days is that High School doesn't really get you involved or prepared for living on your own, managing $, learning how to save, Even the Business world. I believe the School System is to the point of surviving in this area. (My opinion of course) School can be stressful for some, It was for me to be honest. Just wasn't interested in anything else except my computer related courses I took. Well I was really putting the high school material in the trash didn't believe in it and didn't believe it would help me and it did not. I believe If your daughter gets stressed out at school or dislikes it schooling I believe that she shouldn't be required to go to summer school (My opinion of course, and I know some on this board dislike my opinions. Again I'm and I don't really care what others think. And I agree with leader too. algebra Yuck! also forgot to say I graduated from High School with a 3.9 Almost A average!
June 28th, 2004, 03:52 PM #8
Summer school is easy decision, and for one class, isn't a big deal for the child. As for "stigma," no one will know she went, except for those that are also there. It doesn't last all summer long, and is no big deal.
The most important part, is that your child will have a better foundation for the next school year, making her time there easier. Another plus, is that it is free.
Just send her, and feel good about it. Remember, regardless of how clueless her teacher was last year, she did get a "D," and it is her responsibility - no excuses needed.
June 28th, 2004, 05:24 PM #9
Why not send her to a local community college for summer school? She could take an entry level math class and be around people who won't judge her for taking classes during the summer. It'll probably be a good learning experience for the future and she won't have to worry about looking uncool among her friends.
I wish I had taken college classes before I graudated. I had a friend who took Algebra II at the local college during high school which put him in Calculus before me. He ended up beating me for Valedictorian by .01 points because of it.
- ScottHatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.
June 28th, 2004, 05:39 PM #10
For me the choice is easy. Buy the book. Sit her down and tell her she has a choice. Learn the stuff or die..... and be sure she makes the correct choice. Teach her your self. Look, this is MOM you are dealing with now! To teach a kid, all you need to do is stay one chapter ahead of the kid. If you don't know how to do the problems, get a tutor....for yourself! It is high time you learned.Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!
June 28th, 2004, 05:44 PM #11
Lots to think about! I wish there was a "parenting 1-2-3 guide" I could just solve by looking this up.
We have been fighting about this all day. Her main problem with going is: Having to get up at 6 am...she just wants to sleep in. As far as what her friends think: Her best friend, her boy friend(this months), her last boyfriend(last months), AND her best friends Boyfriend ALL failed.
As far as a tutor...she would never go for it.Never. Maybe I will teach her myself...thats a great idea SSanf!! I know the stuff ( I think I still do!!) Math was my strongest subject up until university.
She thinks I just want to punish her and cannot see that I only care for her wellbeing.
June 28th, 2004, 06:01 PM #12
Well if school is just a big social scene and her boyfriends all failed and will be there.. why even consider summer school? She won't consider a tutor? It means she doesn't have to get up early and why would she have a choice anyway? If you don't want to do it yourself.. go for the tutor.
June 28th, 2004, 06:20 PM #13
The kids can only take one subject at summer school, so I doubt her friends will be going. Her best friend might go(imagine a younger Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie), then it will be more a social thing.
She just cannot clue in. You need to do well in school(unless your quite smart) to get into university, a good job later in life, etc etc.
She also got a D in Phys-ed too, so if she goes to summer school, she will be walking there (about an hour walk)
June 28th, 2004, 06:24 PM #14
You must make it clear that failure to learn and perform to her reasonable capacity is not an option. Stick to your guns. It is a fight you MUST win. That is what parenting is largely about, fighting the good fight and winning.
If she hates you for it so be it. You will love her just the same. And, this is how you prove it.Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!
June 28th, 2004, 06:28 PM #15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As far as what her friends think: Her best friend, her boy friend(this months), her last boyfriend(last months), AND her best friends Boyfriend ALL failed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> She thinks I just want to punish her and cannot see that I only care for her wellbeing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, you're going to be in the doghouse for a while. Remember that she's also frustrated at not having self-determination. This pointed reminder of that fact won't get you any medals.
To try to ease the resistance (somewhat--she won't be listening today, though!), you may try thinking up things she'll need to know higher math for (and will therefore need to know the foundations of that math). If she's got any interest in chemistry, biology, or physics and may want to pursue that she'll have to cram the math in sometime! Now's best, when the schools aren't assuming that she already knows too much.
(Wow I'm glad I'm not a kid anymore... )
PS She should eventually quit hating you, but the class will probably be long over by then! Just keep an eye out for some time that the math is coming in handy, and then give her the "aren't you glad you know that?"
Don't rub it in too much, though, or she'll just get p*ssed again!There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway
June 28th, 2004, 06:42 PM #16
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- January 18th, 2005
Why can't you teach her? You should have been making sure she understood everything she was doing at school.
My 10 year old often comes home with math homework with no idea how to do it. It seems as though the teachers don't really push the children. If they are not learning at home, then will often fall way behind.
It is our role as parents to re-enforce what the kids are learning at school.
June 28th, 2004, 06:52 PM #17
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> She just cannot clue in. You need to do well in school(unless your quite smart) to get into university, a good job later in life, etc etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds like how I was, maybe you should buy her a few domains?
Also none of that reasoning will probably be worth apes to her unless she finds suitable motivation. Unfortunately, REAL motivation is one thing that no parent can provide.
You may get some "larger lessons" through, but as for an actual desire to do well in school? My bets are on "Nah..."
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> She also got a D in Phys-ed too, so if she goes to summer school, she will be walking there (about an hour walk) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No sympathy there. I ditched THAT altogether. Utterly worthless class, phys-ed is. The cure for that tortuous requirement is a doctored, "doctor's" excuse slip.There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway
June 28th, 2004, 06:57 PM #18
If and when the fireworks fly, remember she will, hopefully, be a part of your life as a grown up a lot longer than as a teen.
Ask your self how many grown ups have you ever heard say, "I really love my mom. She let me be a screw up."Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!
June 29th, 2004, 06:00 AM #19
I agree with tutoring. My daughter is having her tutoring right now for 1.5 hours 1:1, she goes two days a week. They learn alot more 1:1 because they don't have to go the pace of the class, and if they have attentional issues, it is even better :0) My son went to Sylvan for 72 hours last school year and made HUGE progress ( went from a 1.0 to 5.0 grade level in reading) it is unreal how much they can learn without classroom distractions.
July 3rd, 2004, 08:53 AM #20
I sent you a PM with links to Prealgebra PDF files that may be helpful.This World is Not My Home
We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993
July 3rd, 2004, 07:33 PM #21
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- January 18th, 2005
if anything phys-ed should be a huge requirement for north american society heh.
they need to increase the competitiveness AND level of learning for all subjects as well.
kids that fail a class should have to repeat it the next year, no making up for it at summer school or tutoring. Have them compare the "stigma" of summer school to repeating it at their own school with all the kids a year younger than them.
July 3rd, 2004, 08:39 PM #22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> if anything phys-ed should be a huge requirement for north american society heh. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hah! All that damned class got me was a hip injury which required major surgery to repair. The other hip followed suit only 2 years later.
THAT'S how I got MY original doctor's release. The only "edit" I made to it, was to extend the exemption to cover the rest of my public school years.
If it wasn't for that class, my hips may have never been stressed to that point. I figured it would be STUPID to go back and see what *other* parts would crash, that would be perfectly fine for years--maybe forever--without such abuse! (There weren't any low-impact Phys-Ed classes like swimming available at the time. If you weren't built like a f'n pogo stick, it was TOUGH!)
Whoever decided to make that class a *requirement* should be punished to the highest severity for forcing people of ANY age into Phys-Ed without a full physical examination and PROPER, individually-tailored fitness plans. To force attendance without taking the students' current physical shape, as if everyone is already at the highest levels of fitness, is absolutely unconscionable.
Adults are cautioned, when starting any exercise program, to "work up to" the level of ability they are aiming for. And they're told to NEVER just jump into a rigourous exercise plan without proper preconditioning!
Guess what?! The same precautions apply to children! Being young DOES NOT EQUAL automatically being able to run for miles, do cartwheels, or jump high like a puppy dog! THINGS BREAK DOWN when the body is suddenly subjected to stresses it's not conditioned to handle!
Those infernal classes are "styled by wish." The people in charge WISH the kids were in shape, so they set up the classes as if they already ARE! But no one is "brought into condition" by Phys-Ed. Either the kid already IS in shape and can handle it, or something breaks down.
IF Phys-Ed actually had a REAL fitness plan, which would properly--gradually--increase endurance (like adult fitness plans aim to do), it would be a good idea.
But they don't do that. It's a fairly "instant" thing. The already-fit are fine, of course, but the out-of-shape (the ones phys-ed classes purportedly target) are not helped, they are put at risk for injuries with little chance of gaining any benefits at all.
I very strongly believe that Phys-Ed as it is normally run should be abolished. If an adult-targeted gym tried to operate like the schools do, they would be sued for Gross Negligence so fast it wouldn't even be funny.
Since schools have children's welfare in their hands, their programs should be held to an even greater standard.There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway
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