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  1. #1
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    http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/18/comm...tler/index.htm

    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Memo to American public: Please stop getting silly about gas prices. They're high. Prices sometimes do that. You got
    two choices. Pay them or stop using gas.

    Seems simple enough. But the thought of cutting down on gas is scary. C'mon America, let's have gasoline panic intervention.
    First, admit it's not a crisis.
    The fact is, oil and gas prices are nowhere near, relatively speaking, where they were back in the oil shocks of the last century. In 2002 dollars, a barrel of oil in
    1980 (think Iran) would have cost $78. We're just above $41 now. In other words, we'd have to have $4-5 a gallon gas to have the same economic impact. Get
    the point?
    On top of that, fuel efficiency in cars is better than it was during the 1970s and 1980s.
    So sure, gas prices are high, but they don't pack the economic punch they used to.
    Recognize you like being addicted to cars.
    America is car dependent. Unfortunately, there are no signs we will break this habit.
    Look at the AAA forecast for summer travel. A 3.4 percent increase, even with fuel concerns. And air fares are pretty cheap.
    Just now we are getting the first signs that the appetite for huge, honkin' SUVs ... I'm talking the big boys here ... is beginning to ebb. Sales were off 15 percent in
    April, according to Autodata.
    But those April sales weren't lost mind you, just delayed. Big SUV buyers are just postponing purchases by about 4.6 months, according to CNW Marketing
    Group. And only 17 percent of car buyers have decided on car models based on fuel considerations, according to Kelley Blue Book.
    Consider this ... of 56 basic car characteristics consumers base buying decisions on, fuel efficiency is 44th.
    Maybe a little gas guzzler hardship could change this perspective.
    Know politicians will enable your addiction.
    Public dissatisfaction and politics can be a powerful combination, especially in an election year. So it should be no surprise that various senators are calling for oil to
    get released from the strategic petroleum reserve.
    Bad idea. The reserve is meant for national emergencies ... like wars and embargoes. Hey, the way things are going overseas, we may actually really need that oil
    one day.
    Dipping into the reserve now just because prices are high is like raiding your 401k to cover your taste for steak and lobster. Try eating Kraft macaroni and cheese
    for awhile instead.
    Don't fantasize that you can fix the problem.
    Seen the nonsensical e-mail zipping around the Internet this week, calling for a gas boycott on May 19?
    "It has been calculated that if everyone in the United States did not purchase a drop of gasoline for one day and all at the same time, the oil companies
    would choke on their stockpiles. At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss of over $4.6 billion which affects the bottom lines of the
    oil companies."
    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. The dollar figure comes out of thin air. A one-day boycott would simply shift purchases, not end them. And the gasoline inventory
    pipeline, already low, could certainly handle a one-day delay. (For a more detailed debunking, go to the anti-hoax Web site snopes.com).
    Nevertheless, people vent. And the Internet is a great vehicle for it.
    "We understand that people are concerned by high prices," said a spokesman at the American Petroleum Institute. "The best way to get prices down is to increase
    supply."
    Or to kick the habit and cut down demand. You know, car pools, mass transit, all that yucky plebeian, inconvenient stuff.
    But it's so much easier to be addicted.

  2. #2
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    hmmm...the other day on the news they were saying that the highest price during the "crisis" in the 70's would equate to $2.05 today. 'round here, prices are getting closer to $3/gal & I'm pretty sure they're over that in L.A. or S.F. & probably well above that in areas that are more secluded and vulnerable to price fixing.
    I'm not complaining (too much) & I'll be moving about 25-30 miles closer to my day j*b & my commute will take minutes instead of an hour! So, I'll be happy once that happens. Of course, if I could do A.M. full time, it wouldn't be an issue at all
    Hi, I'm a signature.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    As long as I don't have to waste time sitting in line like during the gas shortage.

    If everyone would use one less gallon a week it might make a difference.

  4. #4
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    The entire concept of modern civilised society needs to be re-aligned quickly, before the oil runs out completely (the date of which experts are continuously revising closer and closer to the present day).

    Having the majority of the population living a long way away from primary food sources will mean food shortages as it becomes too expensive to ship the food to the population base. Add to that the inability to process foods due to lack of the required chemicals (check just how many chemicals used for food processing are derived from oil).

    Likewise medications - mostly petrochemical based.

    Kiss goodbye PVC water pipes.

    Wasting oil on something as lame as commuting motor vehicles is pathetic when more important things like drug production stop when the oil runs out as well.

    Viable alternatives for motive power and electricity generation need to be researched and implemented URGENTLY to save the oil for other uses. All this "my gas price is going up" whining is missing the BIG PICTURE.

  5. #5
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    Some ideas:

    Hydrogen powered vehicles, electric cars.
    Pedal driven cars (like in the Fred Flinstone cartoons), look at it this way, it saves on gas and it beats a two wheels bicycle and at the same time it keep you in shape.

    Busses, have a big roof, so they can have a large solar panel there and generate a lot of free electric energy to save more than halve on gas.

    Sal.

  6. #6
    I like traffic lights
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    One problem with solar panels - you need oil to make them.

    Once the oil runs out - no more solar panel production. :^(

  7. #7
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One problem with solar panels - you need oil to make them.
    Once the oil runs out - no more solar panel production. :^(
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    True. And solar energy is far more dangerous than nuclear energy I once read, due to the large number of sheet metal cuts suffered by the panel fabricators. Let's steer clear of these death traps.

    Wayne

  8. #8
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
    "True. And solar energy is far more dangerous than nuclear energy I once read, due to the large number of sheet metal cuts suffered by the panel fabricators. Let's steer clear of these death traps."
    ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤


    Right.....
    and nuclear energy is less dangerous than parasites too.


  9. #9
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    Maybe the U.S. should invest in a transportation system and catch up to the rest of the world. Even back in the 80's i know Europe had a bus system that ran to the minute every 10 minutes, trains with cheap yearly passes, high speed trains, Strassenbahns http://www.strassenbahnen-online.de/ etc. Also they drive mostly small cars since streets are usually small and they pay a lot of taxes on the gas. After the conversions about $5 a gallon, it's always been that high, give or take.

    *Some of the busses there are cool. Kind of like an accordian in the middle, i think maybe for curves since the busses are long and the streets are mostly small and turning is hard. There are seats there that spin when you go around a curve fun when you're a little kid

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drewbert:
    The entire concept of modern civilised society needs to be re-aligned quickly, before the oil runs out completely (the date of which experts are continuously revising closer and closer to the present day).
    . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, the proved oil reserves are continually on the increase and now exceed 1 trillion barrels and we've not even started to look hard yet. Running out is not even a minor consideration.

  11. #11
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    Yes Trust, that would solve a lot of our problems here. I was in Belgium for 2 weeks last fall and the transportation system was wonderful. My husband was there on business and I didn't have access to car, but turns out I didn't need one. I rode the trams, buses and trains everywhere. Did a bunch of walking too. I think it would take a huge change to get people to convert to public transportation here though. We have a love affair with our cars and will drive from one end of a strip mall to the next instead of walking.

  12. #12
    I like traffic lights
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    Well, let's just say that the CIA fact book is only as good as the sources of it's data, and recently they've been having a few problems in that area. :^)

    But while Googling for a reply to your post, I found the following page where this guy swears that oil isn't a product of decaying dinosaurs and is created continuously by processes deep in the earth.

    http://www.911-strike.com/peakoil.htm

    He also claims that efficient solar cell production will be happening soon (pointing to http://nanosolar.com) and that there are other ways to make use of hydrogen as fuel for vehicles, without the safety and storage problems of straight hydrogen - lithium hydride.

    http://www.thinkquest.org/library/si...hydrogen5.html

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drewbert:
    Well, let's just say that the CIA fact book is only as good as the sources of it's data, and recently they've been having a few problems in that area. :^) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, I didn't want to overkill it with a bunch of references, as that one was a nice summary, but here are 133 more:

    no I'm still not going to do it

    Suffice it to say that we will never run out, but that doesn't mean that there won't be supply and demand issues along the way, nor that a higher price may be permanent (which also allows increased supply via previously unprofitable means).

    By the time it gets close to looking like we may risk running out of oil, in 500 years or so, we'll have already eclipsed its importance which, oxymoronically enough, also guarantees it won't run out. So, don't worry, be happy

  14. #14
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    I don't think there will come a time when there will be no oil. At the same time I don't see a reason we have to run our automobiles on petroleum when we could run them on corn alcohol. We would have an endless source of energy provide starving nations with a potential source of income and have a cleaner burning and safer to handle fuel.

  15. #15
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShoreMark:
    Actually, the http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/.../2178rank.html are continually on the increase and now exceed 1 trillion barrels and we've not even started to look hard yet. Running out is not even a minor consideration. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Running out is the only consideration. The world consumes 76 million barrels a day as of 2001. That puts us at 2037 before it's gone. Not before it peaks, but before it's gone completely.

    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/int...nal/021900.pdf

    Oil is used for more than just transportation. Petrochemicals are used for everything from agriculutre to pharmaceuticals.

    All of the agricultural milestones of the last 50 years are directly linked to petroleum (or natural gas) based fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides.

    That scares me far more than skyrocketing gas prices.
    Dr. Strangeweb, or how I learned how to stop worrying about SERPS and love the WOM.

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador darkstar7's Avatar
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    Hey, parts of your computers are made of this stuff too.
    Luke
    Have you promoted your brand name today?

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weisinator:
    Running out is the only consideration. The world consumes 76 million barrels a day as of 2001. That puts us at 2037 before it's gone. Not before it peaks, but before it's gone completely. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, I'm not too worried, I've heard enough conspiracy theories over the past 4 decades to know without doubt, that the oil companies have engines under wraps that get 300 miles per gallon of sea water.

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador Paul_Ward's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by weisinator:The world consumes 76 million barrels a day as of 2001. That puts us at 2037 before it's gone. Not before it peaks, but before it's gone completely.QUOTE]

    When I was a kid in the 1970's, it was all going to run out shortly after 2000 - about the same time as the next ice-age was starting. It won't last forever, but the finishing line has a habit of disappearing into the future and what's all this about global warming I hear?

  19. #19
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    Definite dittos to what Paul Ward said.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  20. #20
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    If everyone buy a scooter we all can save a lot of gas, so everybody should join UrbanScooters.com or another scooter merchant and start selling Scooters.

    Today I saw in the news that in one City on USA, people are buying Scooters to move around town and that there're saving a lot of money on gas prices because some Scooters get about 90 miles on one gallon of gasoline.

    Maybe I made a mistake by posting a good, in demand niche but, there is plenty room for all of us since gas prices are high now nationwide, so go sell some Scooters and stop

    Sal.

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    Not to worry.. the way the cars keeep getting more computerized and the prices keep going up. Soon nobody will be able to afford a car. Cept for us AM's of course.

  22. #22
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jane:
    Not to worry.. the way the cars keeep getting more computerized and the prices keep going up. Soon nobody will be able to afford a car. Cept for us AM's of course. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not to mention having to link up to download the latest virus definitions at the "gas" stations

  23. #23
    ABW Ambassador Jane's Avatar
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    This mornings news flash is that we don't have enough refineries. With all the regulations it takes 5 years to build a new one and there just isn't any profit in it anymore. Besides, bottled water costs more than gas.
    So my guess is they will drive the price up to 3.00 a gallon then when they drop it back down to 2.00 we will be happy. Just be glad you don't need a gallon of water every time you go 15 miles

  24. #24
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    Thanks for the plug, Sal. This topic is a bit old, but one I'm passionate about.

    Furthering personal electric vehicle technology and offering higher mileage / lower emission gas powered options are part of what drive me to do what I do. I figure as I promote and sell scooters (electric specifically) I do my part to help create demand. Demand for the product leads to improvements in the technology. Improvements in battery technology will reduce our dependance on oil. Reduced oil use helps save the environment, decreases funding to terrorists by wealthy oil producing nations, and so on and so forth.

  25. #25
    Eternal Optimist Look4's Avatar
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    While demand has increased worldwide, it's not so much the "shortage of oil" that has pushed up prices as it is the decreasing value of the US Dollar.

    Two and half years ago a Euro was only worth 80 US cents.

    Now, because of the huge US debt and slumping economy, the tables have turned - one US dollar is only worth 80 Euro cents (or inversely, a Euro is worth $1.24 US) So the US dollar has dropped in value.

    Barrels of oil, even though they come from the Middle east, or the North Sea, or wherever, have always been priced using US dollars because that was always considered the most stable currency. That means that all things being the same, if some guy in Kuwait sold a barrel of oil for $25 two years ago and converted the dollars to the local Kuwaiti currency (or to Euros), he would have to sell that same barrel of oil for 40 some US dollars today to get the same amount in his local currency.

    So, while the price of a gallon of gas has gone up in the US, it really hasn't changed much in countries where the currency has been stable. Yes, there's a pinch in the US, but it's because of our stupid deficit spending, not because we are being gouged by the oil rich countries.

    It's amazing how much living between two big oceans cuts Americans off from an understanding of global economics (and politics as well).
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