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  1. #1
    Internet Cowboy
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    Parasites and Affiliate Managers
    To my amazement, as I was sending e-mails to affiliate managers telling them why I am ceasing their program, I was told by more than one that they had no idea that the affiliate in question was a parasite. Everyone knows Ebates and 180, but the other players in the parasite arena are apparently getting in programs without the AM knowing what they are up to.

    I find this rather exciting as this tells me that contacting the AM with a nice and informative e-mail can indeed do some good. If everyone here would pick three merchants with whom they are affiliated (merchants who are also affiliated with known parasites) and send an e-mail to the AM telling them why they are being dropped from your program, I guarantee we could make a difference.

    Let's face it, some merchants convert well even with parasites in their system, while others simply do not. If you have a merchant who is doing well, but has parasites in their program, how well would you be doing with them if they eradicated the parasites?

    I have sent five e-mails today and two of them did not even know that the affiliates I mentioned were parasitic....amazing! They are both looking in to it and said they would get back with me. I have removed them from my database and they knew that when I sent the e-mail so this is not a stalling tactic.

    Try it. It works!!!


  2. #2
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Rock and preach on scohaz! It amazes me the complacancy of some affiliates because they can still convert 1/100 when the non parasitic numbers have been proven to be 1/30!

    I guess some people don't deserve a pay raise ... simply because they never asked for it!

    I want everyone to close the board out and contact their top 3 AMs now, write them and say that they are violating basic contract law by allowing parasites or technology based affiliates to intercept or redirect commissionable traffic you send. Then tell them to contact their legal department to make sure what you say is true and then come back and post in this thread. One voice is applesauce, but one cause is power!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  3. #3
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    The problem for me is I have no idea who is and isn't a parasitic merchant. I occassionally check a site for that but it's not always up to date.

  4. #4
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Then look at the parasite sites Jack - pick a merchant that you promote from their list, just do it, everyone do it.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  5. #5
    Full Member ahmar's Avatar
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    First place to start looking for parasite infected merchant(s) is ebates list of merchants. Its always update . If you find any of the merchant(s) your working with listed there, its time to send them an email.
    <DT>[size=1][color=navy]"The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return.[/color][/size]<DT>[size=1][color=navy]It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale." Arthur C. Clark[/color][/size]</DT>

  6. #6
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    But just because they have someone listed does that mean they are associated with Ebates? What's to prevent Ebates from adding them without their consent thereby ruining their reputation.

  7. #7
    Full Member David_NLC's Avatar
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    Jack raises a good point. We found that Ebates was still listing us several months after we removed them from our programs. It wasn't that they were trying to deceive anyone, I'll bet it just wasn't top of their priority list.

    1) I would start with Haiko's suggestion

    2) Contact the manager for that program to verify...don't rely on just one source. You can get in touch with them directly, or adhering to Haiko's TOS, post an open request to the manager(s) on ABW.
    Best,

    David Rogers
    Sr. Manager, E-Commerce
    New Line Cinema
    212 649-4900
    NewLineShop.com
    WBShop.com
    TheOCInsiderShop.com

  8. #8
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson992
    But just because they have someone listed does that mean they are associated with Ebates? What's to prevent Ebates from adding them without their consent thereby ruining their reputation.
    If a merchant is listed on Ebates, they are a part of their program. Ebates has no motivation to list merchants who are not on their program.


  9. #9
    Newbie Shane Graper's Avatar
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    I wish more affiliates would communicate, they drive the programs why not grab the wheel?

  10. #10
    Full Member ahmar's Avatar
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    If ever there is a case like David mentioned, still its not a bad idea of informing the merchant about it. They might appreciate that.

    I feel first email should be polite, more like conveying the message and asking a question rather than accusing them striaght away of being parasitic.
    <DT>[size=1][color=navy]"The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return.[/color][/size]<DT>[size=1][color=navy]It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale." Arthur C. Clark[/color][/size]</DT>

  11. #11
    Action Jackson - King of the World
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    Good replies on this. I'll take a look later today and see who I am actively promoting that is still on the list

  12. #12
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Action Jackson .... hey that would make a good movie title --- but seriously action by one and all is key here. It always has been but soo few have done. A simple letter saying hey ... this is wrong what's up with that? does wonders ... many of the AMs who have been blasted on ABW have told me theat they got three affiliate complaints and wonder why they were lambasted by all when no one else bothered to write an email and then when the networks disqualify ABW or any community as the "low earning ranters" who do you think the merchant is going to listen to?

    Act guys, we've seen the CoC and addendum are useless, get a pay raise in '05 ... get a merchant to drop a parasite!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  13. #13
    Full Member ahmar's Avatar
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    Wow! Cool Slogan Haiko

    "Get a pay raise in '05 ... get a merchant to drop a parasite!"

    Thats a good one.
    <DT>[size=1][color=navy]"The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return.[/color][/size]<DT>[size=1][color=navy]It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale." Arthur C. Clark[/color][/size]</DT>

  14. #14
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Sig'ed it baby!
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  15. #15
    ABW Ambassador Paul_Ward's Avatar
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    "Good news. I just got off the phone with my Commission Junction rep and we have a plan of action put together for getting rid of all our software-type affiliates. It’ll take roughly a month before all is said and done because we’ll have to put together a set of terms and conditions that are going to involve our legal teams. These publishers should not longer be getting credit for **** sales as early as Tuesday though.

    Thanks for bringing this all to my attention Paul. I spent three hours at home last night reading about all this and what affects it’s having on the industry. Nasty, nasty stuff!"

    Everyone - contact your top 3 merchants - more maybe, and it WILL make a difference. The tide is turning.

  16. #16
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    1. I just finished dropping... welll... a LOT of merchants! Nothing to do with parasites - just yearly cleansing. But I can still contact them with a reason.

    2. I would REALLY REALLY REALLY need a "template" email to send.

    3. After I say "Hey I dropped you because you're in bed with parasites", is there anything I can say like "Statistics show that when you drop eBates, you make more $$$"

    4. I'd be more than happy to make that a regular part of my day, but I would need more instructions, as it's a one-chance shot to make a difference - and I don't want to blow the one chance!

    Kellie aka... you're good with words! Write something I can expand on and tweak!!

    PS: I'm always inviting merchants here with the phrase "a good place to find quality affiliates"

    I'm in shock to see we're also refered to as "low earning ranters"

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador
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    I contacted a merchant that I caught having 180 as an affiliate last month, they
    replied that I was the first to complain about it and they had not heard about
    anything like this before. They decided to keep 180 as an affiliate. Even after I
    explained to them that all 180 was doing was popping up over top of other affiliate
    sites and stealing the commission, and that 180 was popping up anytime when going
    to their domain so that 180 would be getting credit for a lot of sales that this company should
    not even have to be paying any commissions on at all. Guess 180 must have been
    making them a lot of ill-gotten money.

  18. #18
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    I dont get this.....
    I dont understand this whole parasite thing.. people continue to go on about it.. but i havent a clue what they mean? and when they says that affiliates can be parasites.. what the heck are they on about???? like what are these affiliates doing to be bad???? and please tell me in enlgish...


    Quote Originally Posted by Haiko de Poel, Jr.
    Rock and preach on scohaz! It amazes me the complacancy of some affiliates because they can still convert 1/100 when the non parasitic numbers have been proven to be 1/30!

    I guess some people don't deserve a pay raise ... simply because they never asked for it!

    I want everyone to close the board out and contact their top 3 AMs now, write them and say that they are violating basic contract law by allowing parasites or technology based affiliates to intercept or redirect commissionable traffic you send. Then tell them to contact their legal department to make sure what you say is true and then come back and post in this thread. One voice is applesauce, but one cause is power!

  19. #19
    Internet Cowboy
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    I would REALLY REALLY REALLY need a "template" email to send.
    This is a good starting point.
    I send it to the AM with a copy to the email address listed as the admin contact on the WHOIS.

    Feel free to use this.





    Dear XXXX,
    I am an affiliate of yours and have been doing some research on how to improve my conversions in an effort to make more money. The beauty of this is that by me making more money, so will you. Here is what I found:

    One of your affilliates is XXXX. Did you know that this affiliate is known to overwrite customer cookies via their downloadable application? Research shows that many, maybe even most, consumers are not even aware that this software is on their computer.

    This is certainly costing me money. I spend hundreds of hours each month developing and promoting my web site in an effort to sell your goods. Can you honestly say that it is fair play for a rogue affiliate to take credit for the sale that I rightfully brought to your web site? Can you honestly expect me or any other mainstream affiliate to spend money promoting your site via my site when chances are great that I will not be rewarded for initiating this sale?

    In many cases, it has been proven that XXX even pops up on natural traffic to your site, writing an affiliate cookie when no affiliates had anything to do with that sale. I am sure that a company such as XXXX would not put up with internal theft from an employee, so I am asking you to take a close look at your affiliate program as you most likely are suffering losses here by paying commissions that you should not have to pay. At very best, you are allowing XXXX to take hard-earned money from my pocket.

    I promote your site in good faith and expect to be rewarded in the same good faith.

    Thank you,

    XXXXXX



    Some I send are a bit tougher, some are softer. It all depends on how important that merchant is to me.

    Hope this helps,

    Scott

    edited because I am not a good proofreader


  20. #20
    Internet Cowboy
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    I dont understand this whole parasite thing.. people continue to go on about it.. but i havent a clue what they mean? and when they says that affiliates can be parasites.. what the heck are they on about???? like what are these affiliates doing to be bad???? and please tell me in enlgish...
    LastHope,
    Imagine that your web site only sells to your nextdoor neighbor. Your neighbor buys enough stuff online to make you a nice living.
    Well....I sneak in to your neighbor's house while they are out to dinner and load a program that automatically inserts my affiliate code in to their computer when they buy stuff from you. Now I get the commission, you get screwed and your neighbor is clueless that anything is wrong.

    Parasites are affiliates just like you and me, but they either trick people in to to downloading their software that changes affiliate codes or in some cases the software is installed on their computer without them knowing via a "drive by" install.

    I hope this clarifies things for you.


  21. #21
    Full Member ahmar's Avatar
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    And when Merhcants/AM ask for the proof direct them to MS AntiSpyware and ask them to check out themselves what MS has to say in the description about that particular parasite/adware. IMO, its one authenticated tool that they will not question the credibility of it.

    Promote MSAS to your customers, more people will come to know of the merchants dealing with parasites more are the chances that merchants will drop the parasites from their programs maybe not for anything but to just save their reputation.

    Take advantage of it at least till its free. You never know what price tag it might have when MS goes commercial with it.
    <DT>[size=1][color=navy]"The best measure of a man's honesty isn't his income tax return.[/color][/size]<DT>[size=1][color=navy]It's the zero adjust on his bathroom scale." Arthur C. Clark[/color][/size]</DT>

  22. #22
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmar
    First place to start looking for parasite infected merchant(s) is ebates list of merchants. Its always update . If you find any of the merchant(s) your working with listed there, its time to send them an email.
    What's the URL for the list?
    Any danger of drive-by install if I visit their site to see this list?

  23. #23
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Donuts,

    http://www.ebates.com/all_stores.jsp (no drive by there)

    Make sure you include what M$AS says about them:

    eBates Moe MoneyMaker
    ======================
    Type: Adware
    Threat Level: Elevated
    Author: Ebates Inc./TopMovx inc.

    Description: Ebates MoneyMaker is an adware program that displays a number of popup adverts. Ebates MoneyMaker tries to disable programs that might interfere with its operation without your consent. This includes popup blockers.

    Advice: This is a high risk threat and should be removed or quarantined as to prevent harm to your computer or your privacy.

    About Adware: Adware is generally software that displays advertisements. Some advertisers may covertly install adware on your system and generate a stream of unsolicited advertisements that can clutter your desktop and affect your productivity. The advertisements may also contain pornographic or other material that you might find inappropriate. The extra processing required to track you or to display advertisements can tax your computer and hurt your system performance.
    Continued Success,

    Haiko
    The secret of success is constancy of purpose ~ Disraeli

  24. #24
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Thanks Scott for the "template" and haiko for the URL

    Just a reminder that there's a price to pay for standing up for what's right.

    I pulled all Lillian Vernan links in December because of Liveperson parasite and (stall while I log onto Linkshare)

    I went from this in November:
    Clicks: 3,536
    Orders: 259
    Items: 846
    Sales: $16,466.51
    Commish: $1,597.38

    to this in January:
    1 1 0 3.23% $29.98 $1.80

    Put another way... that's a luxury car payment!!! or a mortgage payment.

  25. #25
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    holy shites.... that's a long list!

    when you see Wal**rt and E*ay on there listed with No Discount, should I assume that their aff comm is so slim that the parasite is keeping the whole amount and choosing not to pass along a savings to their customers/users who value their service so highly? (rhetorical question)

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