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  1. #1
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    Lets all make a site together
    Ok I know what you are thinking but listen, I seen this idea on another thread and it sounded simple to me.

    We get the top 50 user's here to join a group that we can make pages and publish together. Whatever that is the easy part. We each sign up for the worst known parasite programs fill the mall site with banners, ads , text make it the ugliest site on the internet that doesn't matter.

    We send out a press release that we are donating 100% of the income to a senator relection campaign. Get Senator Chuck Schumer involved or whoever in promoting the site. Then in 6 months when he ask for the profits we tell them they were all stolen by big business that partner with these people and give him a list of names.

    Mention that these people could be overseas and who knows what they do with the money. I am sure that will get attention when he ask to open up the networks books. hmmmmmmm

    I can see the senate subcommittee hearings already! I think I need coffee
    Last edited by Leader; March 5th, 2005 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Spelling, per NYFalcon's request

  2. #2
    MasterMike HardwareGeek's Avatar
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    I'm game but can we make a site for us to get Hillary Out of Office.
    We will donate all of our income to Rudy for Senate campaign.

    I mean there are more republicans in the Senate. If they don't gain an additional seat because of low funding due to parasites stealing income they would raise hell and get the FTC on all of the scumwares asses.

  3. #3
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    ROLMAO... I'd think any BHO stuffed system visiting shopping.com would experience the full wrath of the popup Adwhores. We could also petition a head to head transparent Cybermall project pitting ValueClick, Performics against Linkshare. Earned commissions, CTR and EPC would all get published daily. Proceeds could go to a vocal liberal political outfit like the ACLU or Free Michael Jackson campaign.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  4. #4
    http and a telephoto
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    Billy Kay's idea

    Why not make one for each party so no one is left out?
    Deborah Carney
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  5. #5
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Deb...

    Look up...

    Members viewing thread: Billy Kay, loxly

    Don't MAKE me get a restraining order!! pp

  6. #6
    ABW Ambassador
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    "We each sign up for the worst known parasite programs"

    How do you sign up with parasite programs? You don't need to, they'll pop on you for free. The site might actually make a lot of money, send them videos instead or go to their house and download all the adware you can, that'll get them moving.

  7. #7
    http and a telephoto
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    Deb...

    Look up...

    Members viewing thread: Billy Kay, loxly

    Don't MAKE me get a restraining order!! pp
    hehehehehe Wait until I get to Vegas!!!!! muuuuaaaahhhhhaawwwww
    Deborah Carney
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyfalcon
    Get senator Chuck Shcumer involved or whoever in promoting the site. Then in 6 months when he ask for the profits we tell them they were all stolen by big business that partner with these people and give him a list of names.

    Mention that these people could be overseas and who knows what they do with the money. I am sure that will get attention when he ask to open up the networks books. hmmmmmmm

    I can see the senate subcommittee hearings already! I think I need coffee
    LOL !!

    Shcumer has a big enough mouth, that's for sure !!

    RadarCat, Webmaster
    http://www.os2warplinks.com

  9. #9
    I like traffic lights
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    >If they don't gain an additional seat because of low funding due to parasites
    >stealing income they would raise hell and get the FTC on all of the scumwares
    >asses.

    180solutions is a big GoP donator. I would not be surprised if the other scum do it too.

    Unless you can donate bigger amounts than the scum do, I think you might be wasting your time. That's how olitics works in the good ol' USA. Those with the biggest wallets get listened to the most.

  10. #10
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Cool
    LOL...The GOP is in the beginning steps of hiring a FTC & Congressional Anti-Spyware proctologist to scope out 180Solution's butt. The DNC cost a lot less to influence, and hasn't the proctologist recruiting problem. They have Dr Howard Dean at the helm... or is that the stern?
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  11. #11
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    What needs to be done is just take it to court. If you have a site and somebody is popping advertising over it without permission or compensation, i would imagine you have a good case. Merchants have done this when other merchants partner with adware to pop ads over their competitors sites, and they have been successful in court getting it to stop. Adware is triggered by urls or keywords, so something on your site is causing an application to launch advertising without your permission or compensation. Even in cases where Google puts in a link to Amazon on a Barnes and Noble page via autolink for the new toolbar, without their permission or compensation. I think sometimes people think laws already in place don't apply because what we do is online and some things still need to ironed out in court. And i think they'll be ironed out in the right direction.

  12. #12
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    nyf, you're a freaking genius! I don't know if I meet the criteria for a "Top 50" affiliate but I would be very happy to help.

  13. #13
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    I'm going to do a little bit of research into the regulations in the merchant processing industry, since that's my expertise and see if there is something within their rules about this type of activity. If we can terminate or curtail their processing activity until they rectify the practice may be something to explore.


    I'll see what I can come up with

    No promises or guarantees.

  14. #14
    Prince of Content Vinny O'Hare's Avatar
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    nyf, you're a freaking genius
    There are many that would fight that statement in court
    I shouldnt of said top 50 just 50 that could produce a few webpages. Actually this would be easier to do with a mall site that is already live. Just swap out the merchants that have no parasites to the ones we know has parasites. I can actually do this in a matter of hours and donate the site online and create a press release I am sure there would be an interest by the media. Wait about 2 weeks then call the congressman and ask how its going
    Wait how about you donate the site to the president or is he too busy
    Vinny O'Hare - OPM - Contact Info email: vinny at teamloxly.com ~ 702-582-6742 Twitter

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    A more compelling, and telling, senerio would be to build out my Safe Haven Network Mall project. Transparently publishing both clean and un-clean merchants actual conversion ratios lets them face off and compete with real consumers with their best sellers and pre & post sales services. Each participating AM would have no smoke and mirrors excuses. The approved affiliates can then choose which lead merchants and products they wish to push through the available creatives knowing upfront what works for the others. They also know the clicks per sale averages for the entire group to judge their own performance on targeting buyers. AM's would have to say "try this one" ...read the live stats ...see how it converts!

    No legal justified interference, or blanking links, from Norton and other Ad blockers. No brand -trademark- merchant URL spamming allowed. No direct links from PPCSE's, as affiliates are required to filter/focus and send shoppers from their own pages and e-mail links with physical clicks. All "incents", specials and coupons apply to ALL referral shoppers via alerts on the merchants landing pages. Merchants compete for primetime affiliate exposure based upon their published network wide conversion ratio. Only feed resource would be through a PSC keyword product interface.

    Impossible to turn off tracking and cookie setting without disabling the merchants shopping cart checkout process. Live help buttons and easy payment plans would be restricted from being commissionable to any 3rd party. Added bonus is a system in place to credit all sales made from each affiliate referral on that shopping session, even if the shopper buys from a competing Safe Haven merchant. Return day cookies apply to original merchant referred, so affiliates need to concentrate on their own pages being shopper friendly to encourage repeat visits in various shopping categories or seperate web sites....or promote multiple merchants. No need for iframes, so they are banned.

    Only policing necessary applies to cookie stuffers and Blind re-direct PPCSE playas. Poor poor merchants get exposed to their real ability to compete on price-product-service and e-catalog layout & landing pages. BHO's can't get credit for any Safe Haven sales and can only hope to entice referred shoppers away from their shopping session by their lame popups to their parasite friendly network links.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  16. #16
    15 years and counting
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    NYFalcon - Wait how about you donate the site to the president or is he too busy
    Too late, he's making a deal with somebody else.
    If the picture don't show up, here's the link:
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  17. #17
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    @Ecom-- As promised in another thread, here's my comments about your "Safe Haven" network.

    I like this idea here... "Impossible to turn off tracking and cookie setting without disabling the merchants shopping cart checkout process."

    But this is a bit misleading: "No legal justified interference, or blanking links, from Norton and other Ad blockers."
    So, they do legal UNjustified interference! But what's to stop them from interfering/blanking links? They don't really seem to care if it's justified--only if it'll increase their own sales.

    "Only feed resource would be through a PSC keyword product interface."

    Why on EARTH would you want to limit feeds to that SEO-proof thing. It's not like that would prevent anyone from doing anything bad...but it would interfere with doing WELL!

    "Live help buttons and easy payment plans would be restricted from being commissionable to any 3rd party."

    But, that would still allow the merchant itself to butt into the commission stream. Those alternate sales methods need to be tracked--to the referring affiliate!

    "Added bonus is a system in place to credit all sales made from each affiliate referral on that shopping session, even if the shopper buys from a competing Safe Haven merchant."

    I still don't like that one. That's saying that, all someone has to do to overwrite ALL "Safe Haven" cookies is get a viewer to click a link to ONE SH merchant! That stacks the odds too high towards having my cookies be negated by whoever's higher in the SEs than me, even if only for "one session." It only takes one session, to whisk the sale away!

    I think how the current way is "supposed to" work is much better on this No clickie, no cookie. For EACH individual merchant. An affiliate shouldn't have to risk losing ALL their "safe haven" sales from a particular customer, because that customer clicked ONE link from another SH affiliate.

    "Return day cookies apply to original merchant referred, so affiliates need to concentrate on their own pages being shopper friendly to encourage repeat visits in various shopping categories or seperate web sites....or promote multiple merchants."

    So they'll just promote every merchant, and set up the site to entice people to get a long-term cookie for each one. Same as we do now for CJ, LS, SaS, and Perf.

    "Only policing necessary applies to cookie stuffers and Blind re-direct PPCSE playas."

    What's going to keep the parasites from sneaking in? You'd have to be policing constantly since the parasites are always trying to come back in under new names. And don't forget the more standard fraudsters, like pseudo-affiliates who buy things for themselves with stolen credit cards.

    "Transparently publishing both clean and un-clean merchants actual conversion ratios"

    Publishing the conversion ratios sounds good. But--you'd let un-clean merchants in~?
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  18. #18
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Like I said Leader this Safe Haven Sales network concept is beyond those blurred & blinded by the conventional affiliate advertising networks false premises. Under closer inspection any challenges, truthfully answered, would reveal no wiggle room for SERP and PPCSE spammers, datafeed doorway page freaks, BHO entry, nor any rewards to merchants practicing diversion tactics. Hell the merchants would actually tone down even placing PPCSE Ads to shoppers entering via a Safe Haven doorway link, as all leakage would go to their competition automatically if their offerings aren't worthy of immediate or bookmark future purchase. The key is to transparently expose them to their real unincented conversion ratio potential. If Sierra Trading can best Overstock in certain categories ...so be it. If Walmart has both of them whacked at the knees in other catagories ...so be it. If Dell or IBM can cream TigerDirect in various product sales categories ...so be it. All the advertising crutches are yanked out from under the merchants who compete for actual targeted/filtered referred shoppers base upon their ability to close the sale. So to start answering your questions ...yes it would be impossible to not report every sale made on each coded referral shopping session without turning off the merchants shopping cart.

    Yes it would allow immediately for any merchant (even the infested ones) to participate on a level playing field with their only major expense being they can't hide from their commission exposure. Only negative for affiliates is their expertise in SERP manipulation, cookie stuffing, tricks for clicks, and even incentive marketing would get thrown out the window. All income potential would start from a physical click from their own pages. Any attempt to bypass this would stick out like a sore thumb for the SHN compliance police. PS: they get rewarded by providing proof of TOS infringement with the forfeited affiliate's commissions as that member gets OUTED & BOOTED. (Ms.B -Poon -and Ben can fight over those battle field dead body pickings)

    Your Norton question...."But this is a bit misleading: "No legal justified interference, or blanking links, from Norton and other Ad blockers."
    So, they do legal UNjustified interference! But what's to stop them from interfering/blanking links? They don't really seem to care if it's justified--only if it'll increase their own sales."

    My answer. Three separate States Attorney Generals and some lawyer friends have confirmed it would be illegal under current laws for any party to interfere with displaying or routing of the Safe Haven Networks coded links as they proceed to set the tracking cookie from a secure ecommerce server. Do you know of any idiot willing to automate hijacking or blanking Walmart's or Dell's "buy it Now" button??? Then let them take on the million volunteer lawyers willing to prosecute that case on a contingency basis.

    Your question #2 ..."Only feed resource would be through a PSC keyword product interface." Why on EARTH would you want to limit feeds to that SEO-proof thing. It's not like that would prevent anyone from doing anything bad...but it would interfere with doing WELL! "

    There would be no opportunity given for any SHN affiliate to get their hands upon SHN merchant product datafeeds to pollute the SERPs, mirror the merchants ecatalog or build instant cookie setting doorway pages. Every affiliate will have the opportunity to excel in showcasing a merchant, or part of a merchant, via Akiva's PSC. Even the merchants will be rightfully restricted to display for sale only their top 25% of products in each category to SHN shoppers. Forces them to think what converts and what collects dust as those PSC mini-showcases crank out top sellers. They can sell the dusty crap from their advertising network links.

    Merchants have the right to man & operate "live help" and easy payment plans to increase their conversion ratios. They just have to train the operators or activate the easy payment process through their shopping cart. They, after all, compete for active affiliates via a published conversion ratio and visible conversion help tools are open to SHN affiliates discussion.

    Leaders next question regarding cookies: ...."Added bonus is a system in place to credit all sales made from each affiliate referral on that shopping session, even if the shopper buys from a competing Safe Haven merchant."

    Without giving away too much, knowing the propensity of 16,000 idea stealers at ABW, let me pass this on. Only one merchants 30 day return cookie is set by each physical click. Affiliates control, focus and guide referred shoppers by their choice of showcased merchants based upon their interpretation of who's the best chance to close the sale. Think about being tasked with building window displays for mainstreet brick-n-motor merchants. The residual blue bird sales commission opportunity for that shopping session only is provided by SHN's unique way of showing alternative merchant choices to that shopper for the same or similar product from another trusted SHN merchant. That affiliate snagged a buyer and gets rewarded. If the shopper direct types in the URL or clicks a bookmark a few days later ..only the original merchant's return day cookie is on their system. Nothing has changed, but the commission window opportunity is expanded if the affiliate snags a buyer! It's tough sometimes to think sales network ...not advertising network.. in todays clouded & confused Adwhore environment.

    Needless to say S/W affiliates are not invited into the program and therefore cannot be issued a SHN cookie. Good luck trying to get past Ms. B -Poon or Ben on farming out your cookie to a BHO as they get to keep your ill gotten commissions. As the SHN grows it can afford to legally protect it's merchants from parasites within the safe haven. Hell the AM's assigned to the SHN job can sleep easy at night as they'll never hear a moan, groan or rant about tracking, late commission payments. They will have to worry about their competition slaughtering them on published conversion ratios. But thats a worry they can improve upon by tweeking creatives and high conversion landing pages. Remember those??
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

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  19. #19
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    I nominate Mike to head up site design.

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Interesting how what seems like a few minutes typing turns into 1 1/2 hour's worth and a true ebook length post.Those uninterested in debating about the "Safe Haven Network" can scroll down now, cuz that's all this post is about!

    "thats a worry they can improve upon by tweeking creatives and high conversion landing pages. Remember those??"

    A MERCHANT with a high conversion landing page? LOL that's a rare species indeed; always has been. As for affiliate-side sales pages, though, amazingly I just dusted off a vague & tattered memory of those for one of Andy's merchants. The particular category is too saturated to get a nice, beautiful FEED site to rank (well, maybe if I had 10 million links-in to override the other billion feed sites in that category, it'd rank...). I actually managed to make a unique page without resorting to using the Wayback Machine to look at my old page for the same category of merchant, too!

    His merchant doesn't have a feed on offer, but that certainly is not why I'm not using a feed. I've actually got 2 similar merchants, with feeds, up already.

    "Do you know of any idiot willing to automate hijacking or blanking Walmart's or Dell's "buy it Now" button???"

    I would suspect that the same jokers that do it to their Snare links would be right in line. Have those lawyers with suits typed up and ready to be filed, for when N*rton decides that any AD network gets blocked--integrated shopping cart or not. And convincing them that SHN isn't an Ad network will be another job for them to do.

    "Every affiliate will have the opportunity to excel in showcasing a merchant, or part of a merchant, via Akiva's PSC."

    Nothing against Akiva, but IMO that is NOT a way to "excel" in showcasing a merchant! It doesn't force any uniqueness!

    I had a page with a PCS-like setup (it may even be a licensed version), and it's the only one in that category that didn't sell Jack! Not one sale even after a year. On the same site, I can count on a nice seasonal spike for similar merchants. That spike is on both individualized pages and feed pages. But nada for the PSC.


    It could be that the particular merchant just sux. But I haven't been inclined to test the PSC on other ones, either, since I *have* seen that $0 result.

    "Only negative for affiliates is their expertise in SERP manipulation, cookie stuffing, tricks for clicks, and even incentive marketing would get thrown out the window. All income potential would start from a physical click from their own pages."

    I can see chucking out that other stuff, but without SEO (or "SERP manipulation" as you called it) there won't BE any traffic to their own pages to do that physical clicking. Unless you plan on signing up Yahoo as your affiliate or something...but you can tell by the Google Death threads that most affiliates get their traffic straight from the SEs!

    So I think the anti-SEO part of the proposal is like telling people they can fill their stomachs better by ceasing to eat.

    "There would be no opportunity given for any SHN affiliate to get their hands upon SHN merchant product datafeeds to pollute the SERPs,"

    Ever hear of a scraper~?

    Opportunity isn't "given" to the successful. It's SEIZED by them!

    And since when did you care so much about the SERPs? That's so...hmm, how do I say it...Democratic...of you...

    "Even the merchants will be rightfully restricted to display for sale only their top 25% of products in each category to SHN shoppers. Forces them to think what converts and what collects dust "

    Well at least you've gotten past the "top 10" idea, that's a start. But, you still are trying to force all the affiliates into competing on the same few terms! The money isn't in the "top (any percent) of products. It is in what everybody else IS NOT promoting. Except for the few people who can get top listings, for the top products. That'd be Amazon, BizRate, and eBay, for most items that I can think of. And a few merchants who hired SEOers.


    Another thing you'd likely get is merchants pretending things were hot sellers that actually don't sell. I've got one merchant that's STILL trying to dump the supposed "hot seller" from 2 years ago. And it's not the first time a merchant claimed a dud was "hot, Hot, HOT!" just to get their affiliates to try to move their junk.

    It's gotten to the point where if a merchant tells me something is hot, I 95% assume it's an unsaleable item.

    As for blasting out the sales with the PSC I already said what I thought of the potential of *that.* If I "tweaked it" to do what I wanted, I'd have WEBMERGE pages only with more w*rk! Sorry but there's no logical point in what amounts to walking to the exact same point I can drive to.

    BTW not all WM pages are junk...

    "They can sell the dusty crap from their advertising network links."

    Possibly, if they have the right affiliate, and there is some traffic, somewhere, that wants the stuff, AND it's not in some category that's already saturated with other people's dusty crap!

    I notice that you assume they will keep their advertising networks...

    "Hell the AM's assigned to the SHN job can sleep easy at night as they'll never hear a moan, groan or rant about tracking, late commission payments"

    HA HA you wish.. ANY bad results = The Network's Fault or The Merchant's Fault. Have you noticed how more anti-CJ threads "just happen" to follow the "Google Killed Us" threads, nose-to-tail, like circus elephants?? You're signing up for a heaping helping of the same, regardless of how you set up... "The merchant can't turn it off? Well, tracking is effected at the NETWORK end then!" I can hear it now.

    "this Safe Haven Sales network concept is beyond those blurred & blinded by the conventional affiliate advertising networks false premises."

    The concept seems fairly clear, but that doesn't mean I'm going to jump on the anti-ad bandwagon. After all, I still like ADS! Ads are my "first love"... Unfortunately, the big clients I dreamed of advertising for only want Established Agencies. That = a job No way, no dice to empl*yment!!! So probably the closest I'll get to it is a Coke ad on my c*ntent site running through FastClick.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Considering the efforts of CJ -BF and LS over the years, that sure would be the simple job. Getting the key admin players and a head hocho with more PR capability then me would be job #1. Startup costs are not a huge hurdle if key partnerships are offered, nor is recruiting merchants and active affiliates.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  22. #22
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    that sure would be the simple job.
    You mean opening a network?

    Or are you referring to where I said "Unfortunately, the big clients I dreamed of advertising for only want Established Agencies."

    That'd be established ad agencies, the kind that make the TV ads and billboards... They're easy to open too, but I'd rather not have to make those horrible ads for places like Mel Farr, which is what the little guys usually end up doing.

    Those local dealership ads make WebMerge pages look like Louvre-quality creations LOL!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  23. #23
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Safe haven Network cont'd
    Hashing over the SHN finer points, brought up by Leader, is welcomed as it would involve pointing out the night & day differences between a sales network and an advertising network. Existing networks/merchants don't compete based upon sale conversion ratios. Hell they refuse to publish any networkwide sales conversion stats. In all of ABW's history only 3 merchant programs took the challenge and adopted the "sales conversion rules" for a period of fantastic growth by all here who join in to test the waters. TigerDirect/Andy, Overstock/Shawn, Essential Apparel/Akiva with some other notables like JCW and Chris's/Mondera grasping and maintaining the concept. The residuals from those first baby steps of an AM actually wearing a sales managers cap ( not advertising managers cap) still propels their involvement in any programs forward motion. Their pause from the Mass eyeball -cookie setting -spam food yelling hoard of affiliates brought a new dimension to the advertising mindset of the existing networks. The networks hated seeing TD and OS propell themselves beyond more established major merchants in both # of checks cut and affiliates recruited. What was with the crap of timely payments, triple checked tracking, and personal re-pore with the lowly non-Super Affiliate insiders.

    So I'm not going to argue the carrot and the stick with you Leader. Let it suffice that there is no stick ...only the carrot. That being every SHN merchant's actual networkwide conversion ratio is made public. Those affiliates unable or unwilling to match or beat that average have serious work ethic problems or sites that offer no targeting/filtering/focusing value to a SHN merchant. The only carrot for them is they see upfront that every merchant reports sales and converts based upon the limitations of their products/prices/services from a shopper's perspective. Only way out for the merchant is to develop better landing pages and fine tune which products get showcased. Only path to continued success by the affiliate is to build both natural SERP and/or SEO pages together with shopper friendly niche' showcases pin pointing recommended solutions to the search terms. Sticking a cookie up the shoppers butt and whisking them off to a merchants front page is today's tired failed tactic best done by the BHOs, cookie stuffers, incent tricksters, Serp and e-mail spammers.

    Those building out showcase pages can mix existing network links with SHN links and see which produce the better commissions/click. Once the light bulbs come on they'll recruit and pressure more merchants into the SHN fold and keep their yaps shut as they try and protect their chosen niches within each merchants offerings. That involves being properly rewarded for the extra efforts on focusing shoppers before they land at the SHN merchant's page. The additional carrot is they become immune to serp alogo changes as they build pages complimenting the shoppers needs, which can't be ignored by the SE's.

    Not all merchants or affiliates will opt-in or apply for acceptance into SHN. They can sit on the sidelines or rip each others throats out with every flavor of todays existing networks plan that pits SERP/e-mail spammers against incenters and the BHO insiders all raping the merchants Ad budgets with various tricks for cookie setting tricks.

    The SHN model is both a safe haven for affiliates and actual merchant management concerned they aren't getting ripped off by some 3rd party hired gun AM firm friendly to double dippers and incent pushing cookie stuffers. But most of all it is a safe haven for the shopper no longer sucker punched into a cookied click by any Adwhore coming down the Internet ecommerce highway. I envision it as a merchant storefront building with hundreds of showcase window displays inviting/enticing shoppers to buy something now!

    What chance will a merchant's AM, showing a verified steady 1/60 conversion ratio at SHN, have blowing smoke up the general networks affiliates butts seeing their CJ/LS clicks floundering at the 1/500 level.

    Tough luck Leader as your existing one upmanship in SEO and feed SERP pages peters out as a real advantage except for driving traffic to your pages where some SHN links reside. Coat and tie is optional ...but physical clicks are required.

    I'd rather a general SHN discussion and recomendations on a short list of Safe Haven Network founding fathers. They'll develop the nuts and bolts and work on the democracy fairplay rules and widen the gap between failed promises and real value-added reselling opportunities.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  24. #24
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Have to clear something up here:

    Tough luck Leader as your existing one upmanship in SEO and feed SERP pages peters out as a real advantage except for driving traffic to your pages where some SHN links reside. Coat and tie is optional ...but physical clicks are required.
    NO "tough luck" for me with your last scenario. One thing I've ALWAYS done is sent real, physical clicks to my merchants. No auto-redirects, BHOs, cookie stuffs or other tricks. My feed SERP pages are like an army of salesmen--NOT an army of pickpockets.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  25. #25
    http and a telephoto
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    nyfalcon, when you want to get back to the topic of your thread, jump in anytime. We need to start recapturing derailed threads
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

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