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  1. #1
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    Haiko,

    i know that your ambition is to grow this forum to 3000+ members and i know that your only doing that because you want to "show them" (cj)

    but can you imagine what it will be like with 3000 members? can you contain the emotions of 3000 members? do you think you will be able to maintain the spirit of abestweb with 3000 members? i think it will end up like cju

    from a finance point of view, at first you did need the traffic to generate income for this site but now you dont, there are always 15-25 people online at this website, most of your members can only dream of that sort of traffic, you have a "merchant fraud" forum, why not create a forum for the good merchants, basically an affiliate programs directory of "abestweb appproved merchants" with your affiliate codes in the links, we will be happy to sign up through you and you will make loads


    when abestweb had less than 500 members we where elite, now every tom, dick and harry has access to the same affiliate marketing information, have you seen what is happening to google?

    i STRONGLY believe that there just are not enough good keywords to go around between the existing and evolving members, basically, i belive that everytime someone posts useful information at abestweb they are hammering one more nail into their own (affiliate) coffin, and a growing audience is simply speeding up that proccess

    only YOU have the power to limit the damage to our paychecks, please cease and desist promoting abestweb and accepting any new signups to abestweb

  2. #2
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    I don't agree with Psychomantis whatsoever.
    Actually I believe he must be joking!

    Haiko, keep going. This traffic is nothing. I have 10 times that traffic on my three forums. And they're Norwegian! (4 mill people)

    Get as large a user base as possible, it gives you power to do more. Our users made a heck of a lot of noice on a health proposal in the Norwegian Parliament a couple of months ago. Although our users didn't get it their way, the politicians changed the original proposal quite a bit. It shows there is power in numbers.

    A large organization moving in the same direction is an important key to protect the affiliates interests.

    It might be that Haiko & friends got what it takes to lead the pack. Not likely [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] , but everything is possible.

  3. #3
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    no im not joking

    i want abestweb to stay like a family, not an overpopulated suburb

  4. #4
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Partial agreement with Psychomantis here.

    Here's the specifics:

    "i STRONGLY believe that there just are not enough good keywords to go around between the existing and evolving members, basically, i belive that everytime someone posts useful information at abestweb they are hammering one more nail into their own (affiliate) coffin, and a growing audience is simply speeding up that proccess~Psychomantis"

    I disagree with that for these reasons:

    First, the poster would have to not be learning anything new, in order for the field to even out 100% as a result. But in reality, the posters of helpful information are also learning new information from various sources, including off this board. That new info may or may not be posted. I'm sure each one of us has some Proprietary Information which is not shared...

    Second, not all readers will take the advice.

    Third, some will modify the advice in such a way that it will not work, or worse, work backwards! :eek:

    Fourth, some only do part of the suggestions, but lose steam somehow along the way.

    Fifth, a lot of people get attached to one category--the category they were already in--and won't become competition for unrelated keywords.

    Sixth, some categories already have over a million pages in them and it's still possible to get a first page spot on them. What's a few thousand more out of a million? Remember that thousands are already trying to do SEO anyway...

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    As for what I DO agree with, I fully agree that the family atmosphere would be totally shot with 3,000 ACTIVE members.

    However, I think a lot of people sign up at forums and then don't post or hardly ever post. Still, if the percentage of posters relative to members stayed the same as it is now, it would become more like a city than a family!

    I will note, though, that CJU didn't have any real moderation going on which is what I think the biggest problem there was there. On the other hand, here at ABW there's 3 of us, and one of us is likely to use a Fire Extinguisher on flames that get too high...

  5. #5
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Second, not all readers will take the advice<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    That's true! It's almost not worth posting useful advice here because it will be shot down

  6. #6
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    psychomantis,

    My "published" goal of 3K members is far from what I really want to do with ABW. Although I think we have long ago "shown them" [CJ] (not that was a real issue) my main goal with ABW is to open a REAL line of communication between affiliates and merchants to allow for a true exchange of valuable information, for the success of the respective sites. Secondly, ABW will allow for the protection of affiliates (the underdogs) for there are major protective chasms! Thirdly, attempt to help fellow affiliates (taken or not) with guidance and tuttledge ... I know it has helped me and countless others, I want to ensure the continuance thereof ... we should give back! I have always believed that the teacher is always beaten by the student (if they want to), and while some may see this as keyword competition ... I see it more as a cattle prod! We may have a #1 on google but ... if you don't continue to "work the magic" with keywords, etc ... you will lose! ... this is still an emerging and metamorphosizing medium! We need to allow for the sharing of information ... all information ... informative .... learned ..... and true .... that my friend will be abestweb, today tomorrow and forever!

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Success is a journey not a destination!
    ~ Tommy Hopkins<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    CJU had 2400++ members when they shut them down .... how many actually posted? .... even if we have 10K or 100K, for that matter we still are / will be family .... for we share a common goal ... being successful marketers with truth and knowledge, in an honorable and just manner!

    Respectfully,

    Haiko
    PS. ABW is miles away from a money maker for me or our team.

  7. #7
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    Amen.

  8. #8
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    I have always had mixed feelings about the limited inventory concept. On the one hand the notion is sound, but on the other hand what I have discovered is no matter how guarded you are with your keywords eventually someone will duplicate them even if you are only moderately successful yourself with them. I find myself always looking for new programs, and I run the hell out of them until the competition makes them non-profitable. Once I start seeing everybody and his brother promoting the same programs I quit actively working on those programs and move on to something new. I know that goes against the grain in a sense as it requires more frequent site updates, but it is something else to throw in the mix.

    If you’re a seasoned affiliate marketer I think what you can get from this board is how to take yourself to that next level. That is get away from the dependence on keyword promotion and start thinking outside the box so to speak.

  9. #9
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    Umh yep, not everyone takes advise....yes overpopulated will be difficult to handle...

    There is plenty of info that many dont share and dont wanna share cos yep they perhaps fear that their knowledge can backfire with increasing amounts of competitors....
    Well and thats quite right....

    Many would share the general info in which they dont see any harm to their business lol....

    And many give out negative information - to eradicate the competitors lol....

    Love you guys lol (oops i am gonna be canned by my gf)

    Regards
    TGO

  10. #10
    Assistant Regional Manager Rik's Avatar
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    How about creating a private forum where only super and elite members can post, read and reply to topics. Although it does sound elitest it would kind of be a ABW close family forum.

    I don't know about you but I love the fact that ABW is growing. It's a good way to get different views, opinions and new sources of information. The only thing I'm worried about is that there will be a few more flame wars in the future.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i STRONGLY believe that there just are not enough good keywords to go around between the existing and evolving members, basically, i belive that everytime someone posts useful information at abestweb they are hammering one more nail into their own (affiliate) coffin, and a growing audience is simply speeding up that proccess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm not a competitive person but I think competition can have it's advantage. It can give you a goal, for example I actually have 4 goals for Groundzero this year. 3 are the typical more traffic, revenue and content and the last I'll keep to myself. Let's just say I'm trying to out do a competitor and create a better "something" than they already have.

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    [ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: Rik ]

  11. #11
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Haiko,

    Your vision sounds good!

    Especially this part:

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "and while some may see this as keyword competition ... I see it more as a cattle prod! We may have a #1 on google but ... if you don't continue to "work the magic" with keywords, etc ..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It's a DEFINITE cattle prod! Nobody wants to lose! It's what keeps my earnings rising... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    The competition is like athletics in some ways, too--even though there's only one Gold, almost everybody who "trains" ends up able to at least do better than before. (Plus, with Google and the other SEs there's more like 2 golds and 8 silvers for each competition [listings 1 & 2 and 3-10] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] )

    Fortunately, I find this a lot easier than the literal kind of athletics!

    [ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

  12. #12
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Yes, I think an elite forum or maybe two would be good as the board grows. It's not to be elitist as such, but it's to create a couple of forums where we can usually guarantee.

    Membership criteria should be simple, a certain level of postings without being kicked from the board, or by invitation only.

    This would be more useful for dialog with CJ and the other merchants, they could just hang around the elite boards. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  13. #13
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rik:
    How about creating a private forum where only super and elite members can post, read and reply to topics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    While this might be a good idea, it can lead to people posting just to improve their post counts, rather than posting with legitimate questions or actual helpful answers. For example: First post asks a question, next post is "Yea, I'd like to know that too.", with nothing else. Or they might go crazy posting in the test forum, again, just to boost their post count.

    Just a different perspective.

    Brian

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador parentsworld's Avatar
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    My exact thought too, Brian.

    A "senior member" board or something of the like by invite or by reviewed request only might be ok.

    I seriously don't see a huge problem brewing, such a small percentage of registered board members actually return to post to any board daily or to even read it. I myself have registered at boards just because there was some post begging my input -- but I never went back after a week.

  15. #15
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    I hate to lose that 'family' but I do see a problem with the private forum. If all of the 'old timers' are hanging out in the private forum, then ABW will lose the benefit of helping others. I learned a lot from the CJ forums, and was more than happy when Haiko came along with ABW. I learn what I can from others, and pass along what I can to others...If we were all in private, what benefit would there be to a newcomer....

    However, OTH, I like the fact that many merchants and affiliate managers stop in to express concerns, feedback, etc. If ABW is too big, they may no longer stop in out of fears of being flamed or lambasted. Most of us know when to flame or lambast a merchant, but a newcomer would be more than willing to say that 'Your program sucks' with no benefit to anyone...

    Tom Pyles
    TH Media

  16. #16
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    Ok....so maybe with the flames going on, I may have to rethink my position....

  17. #17
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    I aint so sure anymore.


    Quiet777

    [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Quiet777 ]

  18. #18
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    It's also interesting to note that in the most recent flamefest that happened, many of the posts were, in fact, from senior board members with more red dots than most of us.
    Making the board or a section of the board elite does not solve all problems [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  19. #19
    ABW Veteran Student Heyder's Avatar
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    Why would you people want to stop abestweb from growing?

    Currently abestweb seems to be under two agendas.

    One to improve websites the other to improve merchant affiliate relations.

    If we simply go with improving relations between merchants and affiliates there could never be any "shooting your self in the foot"

    On the other hand most of us are here for the learning and good conversation. This is the part that spidey doesn't like because of copycats.

    My thoughts are this.

    Real good solid business advice doesn't harm anybody. In fact I believe that the more of us who do well with the advice from here the more we will all benefit in the end.

    For one thing an affiliate who does really well may end up as the next merchant at cj.com and we could all use more good merchants.


    This conversation reminds me of about old time magicians who guarded their secrets with their lives.

    Nowadays magicians make more money and everyone knows it's fake.

    [ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: Heyder ]

  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    The magicians still don't like to say just HOW they make the tricks work, though...even though everyone knows what they're doing is tricks!

    Good luck finding a "How Houdini Did It" book--written by Houdini! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    But I do agree with you on this, Heyder: "Real good solid business advice doesn't harm anybody. In fact I believe that the more of us who do well with the advice from here the more we will all benefit in the end."

  21. #21
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    Haiko,

    Build ABW to have 10,000 members; then open up an affiliate network. That way you've already had 10,000 affiliates and have the power to ask merchants to join. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  22. #22
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    XO,

    <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon12.gif>

    Haiko

  23. #23
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    then all 10,000 abestweb members can share exactly the same information that they learned at abestweb and compete for the same 30 "good" merchants at cj

    but thats ok because you wont have to compete because you will have your own affiliate network, that will "show them"

    wink wink [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    BTW there is no point in having an elite section at abestweb, that will just start a class war, just stop accepting new signups, it will be crap with 10,000 members, this place is losing its cosy familyness and moderating will be a tiresome drag at best

  24. #24
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    all,

    if you dont think im serious, tell me how you will compete against 9,999 abestweb members that know how to sell, sell, sell and tell me how you will compete against 9,999 abestweb members that know all the same tricks that you do especially now that google are starting to give us the cold shoulder and goto dont want us anymore
    ????????????

  25. #25
    ABW Founder Haiko de Poel, Jr.'s Avatar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by psycho:
    all,

    if you dont think im serious, tell me how you will compete against 9,999 abestweb members that know how to sell, sell, sell and tell me how you will compete against 9,999 abestweb members that know all the same tricks that you do especially now that google are starting to give us the cold shoulder and goto dont want us anymore
    ????????????
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    pycho,

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All good men have good ideas and good intentions ... precious few put them into action
    ~ Ben Franklin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Just because they "can" ... that doesn't mean they will! How many affiliates join all merchants and never put up a link for more than 3-10 of them? I see your point but it really isn't applicable because of the inherent realities of the business.

    Haiko

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