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  1. #1
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Linkshare's New Affiliate Agreement
    1.2Verification.

    ... Such inquiries may include a credit check of Your business including its proprietor, principal owners or officers. If requested by LinkShare, You shall provide the written consent of any person for which an inquiry has been or is to be made if such person has not executed this Agreement and will provide any financial information as LinkShare may consider necessary to perform initial or periodic reviews of Your financial stability and business practices
    Anyone else feel queezy letting Linkshare know the status of my Student Loan from 10 years ago??

    Or that I have to grant them carte blanche financial acces to all the people I pay as independent contractors?

    So according to Linkshare, the fact that I lost a house in the Northridge Earthquake 10 years ago (still on my credit report) is somehow relevent to the fact I make links for a living????

  2. #2
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    Does the above give Linkshare the power to say:

    "Stop bashing our company on ABW, or we'll start asking for credit checks and "any financial information as LinkShare may consider necessary". We suggest you only post pleasent threads about Linkshare on ABW in the future."

    Sure looks like they are empowering themselves with the ability to squash complaints.

    Wasn't that a tactic used by Saddam??
    Last edited by Billy Kay; March 12th, 2005 at 02:58 PM. Reason: i'm a dylexic speller

  3. #3
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    LOL Billy

    The way things are at the moment I don't think there is an awful lot of difference in most of the Networks and Saddam, most of them are in cahoots with scum.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  4. #4
    http and a telephoto
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    I would venture to guess that most of us that do this for a living have credit reports that we don't particularly want networks or anyone else looking at. My finacial stability is as stable as my latest website
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  5. #5
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    Cool 1.2Verification ???
    Some indie programs will take poor credit, bad credit, bankruptcy and in addition Si Habla Español affiliates!

    [btw, since 3/4/05 smesser has been getting his A$$ kicked over at AB]

    imho

  6. #6
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    I want to congratulate Linkshare for making the dumbest move of the year. I thought they were a professional company. They should focus on what matters - traffic that converts and does not damage the brand. I don't share my financial information with anyone. What do I gain by exposing my confidential information? I guess Linksare does not want to deal with affiliates anymore. I know I am no longer reccomending them to anyone.

  7. #7
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    My latest conspiracy theory is that most of the larger Networks having accepted blood money from the major parasites/spyware apps/cookie stuffers/trojan pushers/email spammers and all the other scum abounding the internet, are enjoying the benefits of the extra large tax free payments in their back pockets are now working exclusively for the scum in the hope they will get even more tax free dosh to spend.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  8. #8
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    I cannot think of one reason why lnkshare should be able to run a credit check on me or my company. I am not a merchant, I do not owe the money. Considering they don't kick out cheats, but reward them, this can't be to sue for losses that way...

    So why? Steve, can you chime in? why do you need to run credit checks on us? What right is this of yours?

    Seriously steve, why would you need to run a credit check on an affiliate? Maybe one of the linkshare fans.. oops, I mean THE linkshare fan, wants to weigh in? And do not give me this - they aren't going to, they just want the option to crap...

    This is more laziness by linkshare. Instead of fixing the problem, they once again choose to harass the honest affiliates. Bye bye linkshare, I for one will not be accepting the current agreement.

    chet

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador ShoreMark's Avatar
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    It seems to me that the credit check would be more appropriate in the opposite direction. After all, it's LinkShare and their merchants that we rely on for payment...

  10. #10
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I guess it is something else they could sell to the highest bidder on top of names, websites, emails, postal address's etc. There is bound to be somebody out there prepared to pay for this kind of info.

    I for one never have and never will tell anyone about my business stuff unless I wanted to, if this is one of the new Linkshare terms I would greatly suggest to all their merchants to move to another Network before they lose a big percentage if not all of their affiliate base.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  11. #11
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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    If the quoted (1.2Verification.) is true and that's the way the New Affiliate Agreement is going to work and be enforced,........ well...........

    It would be very interesting to see the outcome of this new feature a few months from now.

    Is that New Affiliate Agreement for each and every affiliate on the network, or just for the regular affiliates?

    Are the top performers, super affiliates and the (others) special affiliates exempt from the New Affiliate Agreement?

    By the way, are those that are willing to put their signature on that New Affiliate Agreement going to claim their overtime pay, after they work more than forty hours a week promoting the merchants on that network?

    The last time I check, when you work for a company, the company are supposed to protect your salary from been taken by another employee on the same company.

    But, I might be wrong because I have been self-employed for so many years, that I don't even remember the last time that I sung the famous (Johnny PayCheck) song to a boss.

    I will still be keeping an eye on that bridge from a safe distance because, who knows if it become more sturdy or just crumble with all the extra weight.

  12. #12
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I'm a super affiliate, and it applies to me as well. I don't think there are any exceptions.

    I think this is as much to protect affiliates as anything. With this new policy in place, affiliates can't sign up and say they're Michael Coley or Amazing-Bargains.com or you or your site, unless they really are.

    The merchants have been complaining about getting scores of new applications every day from fraudulent affiliates using the names of other companies. Once they get approved, they change their address, generate fraudulent orders near the end of the month, then hope that some of them will get paid out before the merchant catches on. Removing this riff raff and the time it takes merchants to weed out these affiliates will let the affiliate managers focus on what's truly important.
    Michael Coley
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  13. #13
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    So from reading MichaelColey's post I gather it is perfectly ok for Linkshare to allow the parasites to steal from us but when they are the ones getting ripped off it is a different matter?

    I think this is as much to protect affiliates as anything. With this new policy in place, affiliates can't sign up and say they're Michael Coley or Amazing-Bargains.com or you or your site, unless they really are.
    This sounds to me like something the parasites would do to get in the Networks not what a normal affiliate would do.

    I think it is up to Linkshare to figure out who the assoles are and not to expect the honest affiliates to give up information that is sacred to them.
    SH*T if anyone had asked me 20 years ago what I was earning they would have got a mouth full of knuckles.

    What the hell happened to our privacy rights? Have the friggin parasites bought them as well?

    No way on this bloody earth will I part with one iota of info relating my financial means to Linkshare or any other cheeky snot nosed little assole of a Network.

    I would recomend you all do not give up this info, it is NOT for your benefit to give it up.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  14. #14
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    Lets just think about this.
    Such inquiries may include a credit check of Your business
    What the hell difference does this make? we are affiliates not merchants. We only accept money from Linkshare not pay it out to them. (Unless you are a parasite etc.)

    and will provide any financial information as LinkShare may consider necessary to perform initial or periodic reviews of Your financial stability and business practices
    Again what the hell has this got to do with Linkshare?
    Would you tell any Tom Dick and Harry how your business is doing or what you are making?
    Would you give anyone but the IRS carte-blanche to view your books/figures whenever they want to? this is what they are asking for.

    Jesus these assoles have got me wound up again.

    Are Linkshare really so bloody stupid or is this an early April 1st joke?
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  15. #15
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    Michael Coley, I must be simple.

    because I still don't get.

    Please explain how doing a credit check will help verify the id? Because the credit check, will just be for whatever id is submitted. So again, it seems like another poorly designed method to verify squat by linkshare. Why not phone verify or some other method? Why use a credit check? A credit check reveals much more information than just data that could be used to verify an identity. Data that linkshare has no right to.

    Chet

  16. #16
    Roll Tide mobilebadboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Ward
    btw, since 3/4/05 smesser has been getting his A$$ kicked over at AB
    Hmm, I went over there. I read 2 threads about Linkshare.

    One said:

    edited

    edited

    edited

    edited

    edited

    edited

    The other someone was banned for speaking their mind.

    I left.

    I did read some stuff between the edited posts though and from reading Steve's he couldn't take the heat over here so he ran over there in hopes for "constructive dialogue". Actually that means "people wouldn't stop speaking their minds about the continual degrading nature of my affiliate network over at ABW and I can't handle it."

    Shawn Kerr (.com) | Disney World | SEC Football

  17. #17
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    Chetf wrote: Please explain how doing a credit check will help verify the id? Because the credit check, will just be for whatever id is submitted. So again, it seems like another poorly designed method to verify squat by linkshare.
    You're right chetf! as a matter of fact this confirms my theory that project "Athena" is simply a lip service being offered to potential merchants to show them "how much LS is in control of the situation."

    MichaelColey wrote: The merchants have been complaining about getting scores of new applications every day from fraudulent affiliates using the names of other companies. Once they get approved, they change their address, generate fraudulent orders near the end of the month, then hope that some of them will get paid out before the merchant catches on. Removing this riff raff and the time it takes merchants to weed out these affiliates will let the affiliate managers focus on what's truly important.
    If in fact the problem lies in fraud issues then this is the responsibility of the merchant to detect fraudulant orders and NOT pass them.

    BY the way I think that Linkshare are a decent company who unintenionally end up screwing up fully functional things. They obsess too much about having their A*S covered while not caring about the affiliate. They have bad management when it comes to changing policy. LS usually mean well but end up screwing up things. Despite the above I consider myself a fan of LS, they usually acknoweledge what's wrong and take corrective action. On the other hand I can't stand CJ they are a bunch of arrogant people.

    marcelle

  18. #18
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    I think this is as much to protect affiliates as anything. With this new policy in place, affiliates can't sign up and say they're Michael Coley or Amazing-Bargains.com or you or your site, unless they really are.
    On a daily basis I get people claiming to be who they aren't, some are easy to spot, like the ones claiming to be people that we already work with, others are far harder to spot as they replicate the real contact and business info to the letter.

    Fraud account creators are getting smarter and harder to stop, this is across all networks, not just LinkShare.

    If in fact the problem lies in fraud issues then this is the responsibility of the merchant to detect fraudulant orders and NOT pass them.
    Does not stop the full extent of the fraud that is attempted and is harder to do than you would like to believe, I will not share details because I don't have any intention of propagating the how and why of what/how it is done and detected.

    Cheers

    Chris
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  19. #19
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    Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    And people run stop signs, so I have started shooting out tires of people stopped at red lights. Doesn't make any sense, nor does your post shed any light on the question at hand chris.

    How is a credit check going to verify anything? My companies have a D&B number, why not use that? Why not verify versus the whois or ssl? Making all match the payment address, phone verify? There are numerous ways to do it that do not result in my having to give Linkshare my personal financial information.

    Linkshare is not the only game in town, not all of my money comes from linkshare, so why should they be able to see my company's, or my personal financial situation as a whole?

    Please chris, don't avoid the question by telling me it is raining, so of course you need an umbrella. Answer the queston at hand, why should linkshare have personal/private information about my company that does nothing to verify who I am?

    Chet

  20. #20
    ABW Ambassador erninator's Avatar
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    "I think this is as much to protect affiliates as anything. With this new policy in place, affiliates can't sign up and say they're Michael Coley or Amazing-Bargains.com or you or your site, unless they really are."


    And what does my credit info have to do with it? There's any number of ways to weed out the perps and my credit report has nothing to do with it. I would rather eat a goat's ass than provide them with my financial info. I'll easily give up the two converting merchants I have there (2 out of 42). Any requests for my private info will be denied.
    ~Ernie

  21. #21
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chetf
    Please explain how doing a credit check will help verify the id?
    Simple. Because you have to enter a SS# or EIN#. If the name on that doesn't match what they entered, it's probably fraudulent. And if the fraudsters do happen to find my SS# or EIN#, it'll already be tied to an account so Linkshare won't let them use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelle
    If in fact the problem lies in fraud issues then this is the responsibility of the merchant to detect fraudulant orders and NOT pass them.
    That's certainly part of the equation, but it's not always that simple. The orders might appear totally legitimate at the time the order is placed. Should merchants delay payment a month or two to ensure that they have removed all fraudulently generated affiliate orders?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcelle
    BY the way I think that Linkshare are a decent company who unintenionally end up screwing up fully functional things.
    I couldn't agree more. Virtually every "feature" they implement turns out to be bad for affiliates.
    Michael Coley
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  22. #22
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    Simple. Because you have to enter a SS# or EIN#. If the name on that doesn't match what they entered, it's probably fraudulent. And if the fraudsters do happen to find my SS# or EIN#, it'll already be tied to an account so Linkshare won't let them use it.
    If this is the sole purpose of the credit check clause, couldn't the same be achieved by utilizing the IRS's TIN Matching service? That's the whole purpose of TIN Matching (for businesses to verify the the tax id provided matches with the person the IRS has on file for businesses to protect against fraud). The service is even available online. This would seem like a less privacy invasive mechanism that is already utilized by many businesses to verify identities.

    Maybe I'm just totally missing something here. If so, I hope LS will clarify. But I really am failing to see what a credit check may yield towards identity fraud measures over other possible mechanisms out there which don't require giving up personally sensitive information. Maybe LS is going deeper than just identification matching with this (and I'm not meaning this in a nefarious way) with regards to fraud. I really do hope that LS will shed some light here though.

  23. #23
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
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    I don't mean to be flip or overly simplify the issue, but does this sound like a case of raging paranoia to anyone else?

    Alternatively it sounds a bit like a magic trick. Is LS attempting to deflect our focus away from their horrific track record of lousy communication, pathetic stats and crappy payments by employing a cheap stage trick? (Nothing up my sleeve. Presto!) Okay, now *I* sound paranoid.

    At one level it's laughable, at another it's too Big Brother-ish for my comfort. Might be time to pull the plug on the few remaining merchants I have at LS. Screw whatever money they owe me, it's not worth letting LS peer into my finances.

    They doing the Messer 'round again.

  24. #24
    Full Member Gjenvick-Gjønvik's Avatar
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    I basically agree with Michael - the retrieval of credit report for applicants may help reduce the amount of fraud. They are also reviewing the reports for financial stability - If you're an affiliate with significant credit blemishes, it would probably raise a red flag as affiliates in this category may be more inclined to do what ever it takes to produce income.

    What may be an issue after this policy becomes effective is whether established affiliates who have a number of blemishes on their credit report but have historically shown no evidence of fraud in their dealings with LinkShare merchants, would LinkShare close their account? Perhaps LinkShare will provide an explanation of the criteria they will use (like a minimum credit score of 500) and satisfactory account history. What about the 18 years olds with practically no credit history who are affiliates?

    Of course this wouldn't prevent people setting up shell corporations to "protect" their true identity. If LinkShare requires a minimum amount of credit experience, this might effect newly formed legitimate corporations from participating as a corporation.

  25. #25
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Is Linkshare going to approve me a loan if I provide them my financial info?

    that is the only time I give my financial info, I've worked in companies and none ever ask me about my financial status.

    Never heard of this kind of stuff in the real world!

    What COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commission
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