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  1. #1
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    A possible HELPFUL Linkshare thread?
    In my post regarding the fact that Linkshare wants written authorization to access the financial records of myself and any employees to remain an affiliate, Adam mentioned that Steve Messer was taking a beating at "the other board".

    So I took a peek.

    Sure enough, Mr. Messer is posting up a storm. Whether he is actually answering questions - or just giving the spin - is open to debate...

    But he DID state that he stopped responding to posts at another board (which I assume to be here), because he doesn't like to be called names, we make statements without knowing the facts, and we hide behind our avatars.

    I won't comment on the fact he thinks no communication is a good thing, but I say we give him a chance to either take him at his word, or dig a deeper hole.

    I suggest we nominate someone - Kellie or Chris come to mind - to start a READ-ONLY thread where we ask a simple question forwarded by one of us and edited to exclude anything Mr. Messer's thin-skin deems unprofessional, and he posts a simple response that is edited to exclude any Linkshare spin.

    For example, i forward Kellie the following question:

    "Still missing a Lillian Vernan check from last August! WTF does the iddiot in customer service say to allow up to 3 months for delivery? Do you use the same postal service as the rest of America? Why would Garth say that Linkshare's responsiblity ends at MAILING the check? If it never arrives, how the f$$$ is it somehow MY responsibilty??"

    Kellie can post in the READ-ONLY thread:

    "The post office says a letter from NY to Las Vegas should take 5 days average. Where exactly do you get the 3 month timeframe for postal delivery"

    After Mr. Messer gives a 5-paragraph spin denying a problem exists, Kellie can edit it to just the response.

    And Kellie can not accept an answer with the phrase: "I'll have my team look into it and get back to you" - which my experience means the same as "your email was successfully deleted".

    Hey it's worth a shot!! We don't seem to get answers any other way!

  2. #2
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Nonsense. There is no such thing as a helpful thread with LS as long as they won't address the real issues. And, smesser has had more than adequate opportunity to do that but has chosen not to. In fact, LS has made the situation much worse with the new trerms.

    Of course, HE would just LOVE what you suggest. It is exactly what he wants.

    He is going to get chased off the other board, too, where he thought the classier people hang out. Why is that, do you suppose? You may be able to more tightly control the way in which people express themselves but he is going to get the same message anywhere he goes and no amount of third party moderation is going to change that message.

    BTW, I thought it was hilarious that he thought the group composed for a very large part of the people who were banned from ABW were the classy group. No offense to them. I think they have some darned good members as well. But, you must admit there is an big element of humor to that.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  3. #3
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    I've got TWO weeks to make a major business decision.

    Pulling merchants is one thing - dropping an entire network is another.

    I need certain facts before I can make an informed business decision.

    If THIS is the only way I'll be able to get answers, then so be it.

  4. #4
    15 years and counting
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    SSanf - He is going to get chased off the other board, too, where he thought the classier people hang out. Why is that, do you suppose? You may be able to more tightly control the way in which people express themselves but he is going to get the same message anywhere he goes.
    All these years, I've seen him going from one board to another and I've never seen ONE problem solved. There must be a reason.

  5. #5
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    I'd impose a limitation on Messer that he has to answer questions in 100 words or fewer. Might keep him on track. Also, there should be an option to force him to reply with either a "yes" or "no" when a question warrants that type of answer. He does have an awful lot of difficulty getting to the point.

  6. #6
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, why don't you just talk to him directly? He will just tell you spin and the party line, of course. But, you will at least feel better when you bend over.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  7. #7
    ABW Ambassador Nova's Avatar
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    Respect goes like this

    If you're a bad guy the bad guy respect you and the good guys goes after you to clean up your ACT!

    If your a Good guy the good guy respect you and the bad guy goes after you to get you out of the picture!

    But it seems like everytime the history shows that the good guys always get the bad guys out of the picture for the betterment of the future.

    People always will try to control whom ever they want... If you let em!

    What COC stand for? Crooks Overwriting Commission
    Don't worry tracking is Infected

    Live life to the fullest, You only get 1 chance. Enjoy it while you can... Nothing last forever!

  8. #8
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Anyone can have a dialouge with the willing by simply contacting them on their own. Who needs a message board for that?
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  9. #9
    Troll Killer and best Snooper!
    I decide when the pigs fly!
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    ssanf, there are several reasons to have a dialogue publicly rather than privately. First, the information is shared with a group. The group will generate a variety of responses which is more productive than merely one person's response. Second, everything written in that thread becomes part of a public record.

    Also, I kind of tend to doubt that Messer would reply to an email from an individual as readily as he would to messages from a group.

    Frankly, the more Messer posts the better I like it. He does write the most interesting things.

  10. #10
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I don't think Billy Kay will get the facts he is looking for here, just more spin. That is why I think he should go direct. Maybe, NOT having it public and a part of the public record will get him more real information.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  11. #11
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Smile
    Getting honest answers to base referral traffic decisions upon requires just one step the existing networks refuse to take! Publish the network wide average conversion ratio for each network merchant and each network affiliate. Sure those merchants who employ BHO's, couponer/incenters will show better conversion ratios from that group. But the forced cookie stuffers, also popular in this group of merchnats, negate this conversion ratio advantage by sending junk traffic and inflating click totals.

    My point is this smart community will be able to see the foxes in the hen house when the real merchant management reviews those conversion figures and scream accountability to their AM's and networks. They actually know their sites own conversion ratio from general traffic and should demand better from targeted commissionable traffic. Are you merchants listening? The shills running the major merchant programs, and their Adwhore network partners, have hidden this "performance" evaluator from the merchant clients since day one. Some of those merchant clients could give a rats ass who gets paid for cheating on the promise hyped by the pay-per-performance advertising networks. Others will demand real value-add to drive better conversion ratios and let their hired Adwhores play the SEO/SEM and CPM games.

    Me ..I'll gladly look for the day the Safe Haven Sales Network model gets thrust under the noses content on perpetuating the power players Ad budget raping campaigns. No way could ValueClick/Linkshare/Performics compete for legit value-add affiliates or honest ROI focused merchants with a SHN model in place.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  12. #12
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kay
    I suggest we nominate someone - Kellie or Chris come to mind - to start a READ-ONLY thread where we ask a simple question forwarded by one of us and edited to exclude anything Mr. Messer's thin-skin deems unprofessional, and he posts a simple response that is edited to exclude any Linkshare spin.
    It wouldn't work. If you excluded Steven's spin, most of his messages would look like this:

    .
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  13. #13
    The slot machine that IS paid! Billy Kay's Avatar
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    I posted this thread for myself - a last ditch effort to get a somple answer to a simple question - and 2 minutes ago I re-confirmed the NEED for something as a simple answer.

    I just went to the Legal Entity application, and opened the live chat to walk me thru it.

    I asked ONE question:

    3/15/2005 09:46:00am {CUS TEXT} When is the cut-off for joining the new legal entity program

    3/15/200509:46:35am {CSR TEXT} [kalia] The date that was given is 4/1/05

    I then asked her if she was Kalia F$$te (don't know if we can post last names), the person in charge of the merchandiser program. She said yes. I asked to be transferred to another rep, due to bad experiences with kalia.

    I got "Reginald". Asked the same simple question - received a totally different answer:

    10:27:47am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] An e-mail will go out to affiliates when a deadline is set. At this time, please disregards the 4/1/05 deadline.

    10:27:55am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] Can I help you with anything else today?

    10:28:25am {CUS TEXT} yes, walk me thru as far as i can go with the registration

    10:29:48am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] The best thing to do is please wait until the updated email goes out to Affiliates - that way you do not have to repeat any steps Same friggin' SIMPLE question:

    When's the deadline?

    Two completely different answers.

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador
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    For the record, Messer is ducking the question there as well. Most of his posts there are of the spin variety, not the fact variety.

    He is also ducking the question in private.

    I would say, it is fair to give him a day or two to check with legal or whatever, but past that, a non-response smells of a silent "no".

    Chet

  15. #15
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    I don't think we have to worry about credit checks, per se.

    "they" can think up enough things to bug us about, and will anyway.

  16. #16
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    You don't worry about credit checks, you make sure that they don't get to do it in the first place...

  17. #17
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    "He is going to get chased off the other board, too"

    Why are we chasing people away that we need to have dialogues with? It that the new fun thing to do at boards?

    Discussion rather than attacks would solve lots of probems at message boards in general.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  18. #18
    ABW Veteran Mr. Sal's Avatar
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  19. #19
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    >Why are we chasing people away that we need to have dialogues with?
    Posted: Mar 4 2005, 07:41 PM
    Hi All,
    I have been watching this board for some time and as many of you know we have a board over at ABW. I have to say that I have been impressed with the quality of discussion on this board and the level of professionalism that I have watched. While we are not abandoning the other board, I did want to try this board out to see if it is possible to have a more constructive dialogue here.

    ******

    Tell me what happend for the next 11 days after THAT...

    ******
    There are intelligent people at many boards NOT just at ABW.

  20. #20
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    Billy Kay wrote: I got "Reginald". Asked the same simple question - received a totally different answer:

    10:27:47am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] An e-mail will go out to affiliates when a deadline is set. At this time, please disregards the 4/1/05 deadline.

    10:27:55am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] Can I help you with anything else today?

    10:28:25am {CUS TEXT} yes, walk me thru as far as i can go with the registration

    10:29:48am {CSR TEXT} [Reginald] The best thing to do is please wait until the updated email goes out to Affiliates - that way you do not have to repeat any steps Same friggin' SIMPLE question:

    When's the deadline?

    Two completely different answers.
    Now this is the typical screwup a la Linkshare - I am completely confused as to what LS means by this! or as to what to do next.

    marcelle

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