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  1. #1
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    Help - is Ebates a parasite or not?
    I've read various threads ,which appear to date back to 2003, which essentially tell me that, so far as CJ links are concerned, Ebates is operating within the terms of the COC and will not overwrite affiliate cookies where the link code explicitly shows that the link is a CJ one.

    Does anybody know if this still applies now that CJ links use a whole raft of different domain names?

    Can I promote merchants who are partnered with Ebates with relative confidence now?

    Does Mo Money Maker adhere to the COC?

    And finally - how do I insert 'smiley's into my posts?

  2. #2
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    so far as CJ links are concerned, Ebates is operating within the terms of the COC and will not overwrite affiliate cookies where the link code explicitly shows that the link is a CJ one.
    > as CJ links are concerned
    > explicitly shows that the link is a CJ

    So they are not a parasite because they tell cj they will stay away from their link code.

    However, are they still considered a parasite as long as it does not use the cj link though other networks.

    I don't know!

    In other words, you will not send crooks to rob my bank because you are my friend and we shook hands but, you might send crooks to rob other banks and even my bank one day as long as I don't see you.

    Are you still considered a crook? Should I still want to be your friend even though you have been proven to be a crook by others?


  3. #3
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    I hear what you are saying - even though Ebates may not be considered a parasite on the CJ network, it's difficult to class then entirely as a non-parasite without taking their activity on other networks under consideration.

    At this stage I am interested only in Ebates behaviour in relation to CJ links.

    I'm being purely mercenary here - don't care about other networks.

    I've been doing my best to inform a few merchants on why Ebates is a bad idea for them and, if I'm to convince them, need to have my facts absolutely correct.

  4. #4
    Outsourced Program Manager Jorge - SHOPiMAR's Avatar
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    I understand.

    There are a few here that can confirm it, since they have software to check.

    Only two people on ABW currenly that can perhaps confirm their behaviour good or bad on cj, Kellie or Ben.

    Perhaps they will verify for you, us.

  5. #5
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    it's difficult to class then entirely as a non-parasite without taking their activity on other networks under consideration.
    It's impossible to class them as non-parasite, it is only a month or so back when it was proven (with videos) that they are still overwritting links including CJ links.

    The only people who say they are not parasites are the Networks and this is for the simple reason the Networks are making big money from their ability to steal from us smaller affiliates.

    Never ever ever underestimate a thief or his/her accomplices.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  6. #6
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    Thanks Gordon - as I suspected.

    Can anybody confirm that Ebates will also intercept 'free' traffic, i.e. that which originates from a search engine link which would normally take the clicker directly to the merchant's website?

    I've tried to illustrate to a number of merchants that they could well be paying commissions on non-commissionable sales, but they just don't seem to get it.

  7. #7
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    If merchants partner with these types of affiliates, they will pop anytime someone reaches the merchant's site. So yes like the example you gave. I could find a merchant thru the search engines and get the pop. I could sign up for a merchant's newsletter, they can send me a newsletter, i can click thru to the merchant thru their newsletter and get the pop.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Trust, but I'm only interested in the Ebates / CJ relationship - not parasites in general.

  9. #9
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    Come on guys, I know the expertise is here somewhere...

  10. #10
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    I suppose the fac that Ebates is listed in the Parasiteware forum here on ABW should have told me what I needed to know?

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    I think so microdot.
    They were one of the worst at one time then after professing to have cleaned up their act and stopping overwritting and diverting other affiliates links they were caught doing it again (on video). Yet some merchants still believe the lying little ratbags are in compliance.

    They also give some merchants the option to opt out of the m0-m0ney-maker section of their software (just to get into their affiliate programs) but again this has been proved to be a load of bullshoot they still pop-up overwrite and divert.

    Never trust a thief or con-man. The fact that the owner is a Lawyer should tell you just how honest their program is run.

    Keep well away from them is my advise and I think most of the knowledgable people here would tell you the same.

    Bear in mind do not take a blind bit of notice of anything Todd or anyone from CJ says about these guys, they are in love with them because they make them lots of sales. (mostly diverted from us I might add)
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  12. #12
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    Thanks Gordon - that's a big help.

  13. #13
    Affiliate Manager ProHealth's Avatar
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    Exclamation Ebates and CJ - Parasite, yes!
    Ben Edelman has done a great job of showing how Ebates steals for affiliates. Just check his website at: www.benedelman.com.

    If you want to talk about mercenary, e-bates fits the bill. They'll go to a merchant and say pay X or else. That or else is targeting your affiliate's cookies -- cj or no cj...

    LMG

  14. #14
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Hey Gordo ..thanks for telling like it is..
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  15. #15
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    I have been working hard to eliminate all merchants affiliated with the parasites. I sent e-mail to all before droping their program and referd them to benedalman, affiliate fair play, ABW, etc.

    Many have totally ignored and correspondence. A few have responded favorably and "cleaned house". I have also received some really strange responses, including pleading total ignorance of any parasite problems (what is a parasite?) etc.

    On 6/10 I sent messages to the remaining three merchants that are on the eBates list. I have not received any response from two of them, but got this one today:

    "Please excuse me for taking so long to get back to you. I actually looked into your question right away and meant to write back. It just occured to me that I never actually sent you a note.

    I had to call my Account Representative at Commission Junction after reading your mail because I had never heard of eBates referred to as a parasite. They have an excellent reputation in the market and I wasn't sure how they could even fall into such a category. My Account Rep confirmed that they are, in fact, a very reputable company. They offer a great service to their subscribers.

    The idea behind eBates is that consumers can get discounts at various shops. They offer the option to download software that will remind the consumer that they are at an eBates store when they get to one. I have used this software before and found it extremely helpful. They do not place any information on the users computer without full consent (and even then, it's simply a record of where they've been). As I said, the service is actually optional and very few eBates members really use it.

    Having said that, it is of course your decision to remain part of the xxxxx network. We take pride our high standards - both for affiliations and for customer relations. If you feel for any reason that this network is not right for your business, by all means, do not stay with us. I do hope, however, that you decide to work with our network and see the power of selling top quality, brand named home goods at phenomenal prices.

    Should you have any other questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. Again, I'm sorry it took so long to reply to your email! I do hope you continue on with us!"

    Needless to say, I bid the farewell. (Maybe I should have posted this in the "comic" section.)

  16. #16
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    My Account Rep confirmed that they are, in fact, a very reputable company. They offer a great service to their subscribers.
    All I can say to this first off your account Rep is a liar.
    Secondly he/she conveniently forgot to tell you that eBates still steals/diverts comissions from honest affiliates. This makes them a liar by omission.

    So to put it bluntly, never believe another word this assole tells you in future regarding parasites ask here at ABW if you want a honest opinion.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  17. #17
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Rather sounds like this AM just called CJ for the info instead of doing any real research. Nothing like sticking your head in the sand so you don't have to see the real world. Can't wait for the day when the likes of eBates are illegal and those who went to bed with them will have their reputation's tainted.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  18. #18
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    Gordon, I don't think you got my point. I said that the answer was comic (really did not know if I should laugh or cry). I do not now have ANY affiliation with this merchant and sent an e-mail firmly restating the reasons for my decision. I did not believe one word of what she said. I think Greg got the point - she just stuck her head in the sand and called CJ rather than doing any real research.

    Greg, I hope I live long enough to see that day.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    Well, that day may not be too far off. Here's an interesting article about sypware and adware http://www.emarketer.com/Article.aspx?1003456. Seems some 86% of people believe spyware has caused them to suffer monetary loss. Hmm, 86% yet "They offer a great service to their subscribers". Who is blowing smoke up whose arse? Since 86% think they've been harmed, so what happens when they find out that merchant X is in bed with spyware/adware? Seems some merchants believe the public will think "They offer a great service to their subscribers". Um, don't think so Mr. Merchant. The public will think you yourself are spyware and hit the road in search of clean, honest, merchants. If the vast majority of the public believe spyware/adware has cost them money, tell me again why they would shop at your site.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  20. #20
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    I think this particular lady has her head burried so deep that nothing will reach her. I responded to her first message with a list of additional links and quotes, but below is her response. (But they would love to have me back? Well, maybe when hell freezes or she changes her outlook on life - whichever comes first.)

    Quote below:

    "Thanks for your response.

    It's amazing how different people can view things so differently. Upromise has a similar software. I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but they provide the "cash back" in the form of savings for college. If you don't click through the Upromise site to get to their enormous list of partners, you don't get credit - there's simply no way to track the purchase. So, they offer the software as an optional service for people like me who never want to miss the bonus. It's allowed me to save a great amount for my children's education, and it makes my life easier - I bet I'd miss more than half of the bonus awards if I didn't use their software.

    I think the key to both these sites, is that the software download is optional. Some people may find it threatening, and others like myself find it a blessing.

    Best of luck to you. Should you change your mind about xxx in the future, we would love to see you back."

  21. #21
    ABW Ambassador Greg Rice's Avatar
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    And she probably doesn't even know she's paying them a commission for every member of these parasites who go directly to her site. So, she takes her ignorance and applies it to everyone. Real nice.
    Greg Rice Affiliate Program Management
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  22. #22
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    They do not place any information on the users computer without full consent (and even then, it's simply a record of where they've been). As I said, the service is actually optional and very few eBates members really use it.
    Once again http://www.benedelman.org/news/121504-1.html

    These people at CJ are LIARS and THIEVES.
    My Account Rep confirmed that they are, in fact, a very reputable company. They offer a great service to their subscribers.
    What about just telling the truth, Todd? Do you really have to promote them?
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread...es+video+Haiko
    Last edited by Zeus; June 23rd, 2005 at 02:40 AM.

  23. #23
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    OOhhh dearie me I'm ...........

    another one thinks the CJ Reps are nothing but 's now .

    The truth hurts sometimes eh Todd?

    If I were you Todd I would not vouch for people you don't really know as it puts you in a bad light.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  24. #24
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    I think the key to both these sites, is that the software download is optional.
    Tell that to the people who've had eBates and other TopMoxie brands silently installed on their machines through bundling and browser exploits.

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