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  1. #1
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    JO-ANN Fabrics
    Read today's e-mail closely:

    Starting this month, Joann.com will be adjusting the Action Referral Period to 7 days. Additionally, Joann.com will not pay commission on orders placed by our Customer Care representatives, or on orders placed in sessions initiated by our email or paid search marketing vehicles.

    *** ARP reduced from 45 days to 7 days.
    *** No PPC allowed (my interpretation).

  2. #2
    Merchant Linda's Avatar
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    I'm also interpreting this --

    "will not pay commission on orders placed [...] on orders placed in sessions initiated by our email"

    to mean that if someone clicks thru on a link from their newsletter, it will negate/bypass any affiliate cookie on the customer's computer for that purchase. But I could be totally wrong.

  3. #3
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I would interpret it as not being paid on their paid search marketing vehicles.

    I would have to look through some stats, but I don't think the change in cookie duration will affect me much. With their products, people are either going to buy right away or not buy at all. Very few are going to wait a week or more and then buy.

    They've always been a low performing merchant for me, and this will just make them worse.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  4. #4
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    cheep! cheep!
    I took it to mean that someone in that company figures too many customers are returning during the 7 to 45-day cookie period and they would rather not pay us commissions for that.

    they're gone, as far as I'm concerned.

  5. #5
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    >>>Very few are going to wait a week or more and then buy.


    You're forgetting they could make a second trip? More chance after seven days, I think.

  6. #6
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    The only link I have to them is the 50% off one item coupon code. It's just for the beaders that want just that one thing. 1 day, 7 days, it's all the same to me.

  7. #7
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    If not many people buy in the 7 - 45 day period, why change the terms.

    The change in terms says they do buy in that period.

  8. #8
    Pit Boss redsand's Avatar
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    JoAnn is notorious when it comes to reversals. Today, I got myself 4 reversals with reasons listed as "Others". I emailed them in the past asking what the real reason was, and they didn't even bother to reply. So far this year, JoAnn reversal rate with me is nearly 90%.

  9. #9
    ABW Ambassador Snib's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info guys. Now I know where not to focus my efforts.

    - Scott
    Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all transgressions.

  10. #10
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    They just reversed a big sale on me, too. Now I know not to bother asking what the "Other" was! The itty-bitty sales seem to stick, but I've noticed a big coating of Teflon seems to surround things in the triple-digit price range...

    As for the cookie duration, I think that would disproportionately hit their big-ticket items. Just like their reversals do!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador Airstrip's Avatar
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    But geeeze.........
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    I would interpret it as not being paid on their paid search marketing vehicles.

    I would have to look through some stats, but I don't think the change in cookie duration will affect me much. With their products, people are either going to buy right away or not buy at all. Very few are going to wait a week or more and then buy.

    They've always been a low performing merchant for me, and this will just make them worse.

    But does anyone pay commissions from the merchants own ads ever? I am confused why they even mentioned not paying on their own PPC ads??

  12. #12
    http and a telephoto
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    I know for a fact that people return throughout the 45 day period and make purchases. I also know that every very large sale I have had has been reversed, I have also asked about the reversals with no answer. If anyone knows a replacement merchant I'm all ears.
    Deborah Carney
    TeamLoxly.com BookGoodies.com ABCsPlus.com

  13. #13
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airstrip
    But does anyone pay commissions from the merchants own ads ever? I am confused why they even mentioned not paying on their own PPC ads??
    Here's the scenario. The shopper clicks through your link but doesn't buy anything. Then, a week later they click through a PPC ad that is being paid for by Joann.com and buys. Since your affiliate cookie is still there, you would get credit although it's likely that your click-through from the previous week had little to do with the sale. They're saying that they will no longer honor the affiliate cookie if the shopper subsequently clicks through from their newsletter or their PPC ads.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador Airstrip's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    Here's the scenario. The shopper clicks through your link but doesn't buy anything. Then, a week later they click through a PPC ad that is being paid for by Joann.com and buys. Since your affiliate cookie is still there, you would get credit although it's likely that your click-through from the previous week had little to do with the sale. They're saying that they will no longer honor the affiliate cookie if the shopper subsequently clicks through from their newsletter or their PPC ads.
    That makes sense as much as it is robery!! Most likely the reason the buyer returned was because of their initial vist through our ads.

    Thanks Michael

  15. #15
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    edited out for my mistake

  16. #16
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    Unhappy
    Golly, after reading this thread I thought I better check my reversals for Joann.com
    and the results were surprising:

    Only 24 reversals - all posted on April 5, 2005

    Reversed sales were from $6.48 to $180.95.

    Interesting. I'm used to some reversals, returned items, etc. but "24" reversals and all for March 2005.

    Sheesh!

    Ah! But to be fair, I noticed further down the transaction page, on April 10, 2005 -- there are "29" reversals for March 2005 for another well-known cj.com merchant.

  17. #17
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    Official Reply from JO-ANN
    Reply from Jo-Ann:

    Affiliates are welcome to use PPC advertising. If a customer clicks on a Joann.com email or PPC ad, any order they place in that session (i.e. they dont close their browser and complete the order within 30 minutes) with be tagged with a tracking code indicating that the sale was initiated by a Joann.com marketing vehicle. The tracking codes allow us to know when an email or PPC ad was directly responsible for a sale (since the customer goes directly from that link to our site and completes an order). We already pay for the emails and PPC ads, so it becomes unprofitable for us to also pay affiliate commissions on those orders.

    Weve found that over 90% of our affiliate sales (excluding the orders described above) are placed during a 7-day referral period. The bulk of the orders that we track back to our emails or PPC campaigns (i.e. those described above) occur after 7 days. Rather than maintain a long referral period and reverse a large number of transactions each month, were going with a 1-week referral period.

  18. #18
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Thumbs down uh-huh
    >>>90% of our affiliate sales

    which still leaves 10% of _affiliate_ sales

    did they really say that? 'bye, anyway, jo-ann . . .

  19. #19
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    Disappointing. I was a loyal online shopper at Jo-Anns. Will have to reconsider. Just like JCPenney, what they do to affiliates affects my personal shopping.

    I'm particularly not liking those Merchants who pull the newsletter trick. What if we have loyal visitors to our site, but they don't understand we earn a commission only if they click through our link?

    Our loyal visitor purchases one thing through our site, then are deluged with exclusive, only-if-you-click-through-our-email offers. Though JoAnn doesn't do this (exclusive offer for clicking thru link thing) yet, it looks like they are heading in that direction.

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