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  1. #1
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Nate tells rule following board members not to post in his forum!
    Sure he may not have liked my post and he may pay for the forum but he does not own ABW nor set the rules at this point.

    However, in respect for his wishes, I am posting this in midnight cafe.

    BTW, I told him to "get bent". I wanted to tell him

    He thinks I ain't got no couth! Why is that?
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  2. #2
    ABW Ambassador phillyburbs's Avatar
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    OK, I'll admit it. I have no idea what this is all about.

  3. #3
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    Me neither, but it sounds intriguing!

  4. #4
    The Eternal Optimist zimmy's Avatar
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    For what it's worth...
    no couth = crude, tactless



    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    The big shots are only the little shots who keep shooting.
    -Christopher Morley

  5. #5
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    nm

  6. #6
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    so what's a nate?

  7. #7
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    The defensive/aggressive reaction to fair and constructive criticism makes one wonder if maybe HE has something to "hide".


  8. #8
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Think they're referring to this:
    http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=56690

  9. #9
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    Cool
    there seem to be two extremes in the AM business today: the Amazon.com model which allows almost any kind of site owner to participate, and the other end where AM's are very worried over their EPC -- must have something to do with their bonus or something. (yes, I understand branding)

    We should be big enough to tolerate both extremes and everybody in the middle. Should be, anyway, but apparently some have less patience than others.

    Considering that all conversations in forums are subject to translation, I hope that all concerned make a careful read of the input from both sides and try to find a common ground. A common language may take a while.

  10. #10
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    - - - - - -
    BTW, I told him to "get bent". I wanted to tell him
    - - - - - -

    I've always admired your subtlety, Ssanf, lol.

    Eh, if AMs always judged me by my first site - which is the one that was listed when I first signed up at the networks - I'd never get accepted into anything.

    Different affiliates have different approaches. Many successful ones want a hands off approach. They know what they want, and they don't want to chat, just give them the links and leave them be. I have a tendancy to be more involved with a merchant, because I build small niche sites that generally require a unique approach or spin, and I like to speak with AMs just to pull some ideas out of their brain.

    AMs need to be more accepting, because it is impossible to judge an affiliates' potential based on a small snapshot of where they started out.

    My sites are by no means as professional and beautiful as many of the others that ABWers have: but I sent over 250,000 targetted visitors to merchants last year, and I would like to think that merchants are somewhat appreciative of that....

  11. #11
    Affiliate Marketing Consultant Andy Rodriguez's Avatar
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    I feel a need to chime in here...

    Having run one of the biggest affiliate programs on the web with TD, we had over 20K affiliates with over 1,800 of them being active affiliates, sending clicks and generating $1,600,000 in monthly affiliate channel sales.

    My policy back then is still the same now -

    Unless its a scam site, porn, downloadable app or any other site clearly not acceptable in your TOS, don't pre judge the affiliates. Let them in and allow them the opportunity to work with you. I have learned over time and with experience that affiliates work at all different levels, different times and different styles. I have ugly ass looking sites generate huge commissions, I also have professional looking sites on my programs that don't do squat...

    It's not the site you see on the application that matters, it's not the sites the affiliates show you, its the results produced over time that determine the "value" of an affiliate/merchant relationship...and unless you accept them in your program, you can't measure that metric...

    My advice to any AM's reading this - Don't pre judge anyone

    If an AM knows how to read reports and program stats, you can only benefit by having as many partners in your programs as you can, monitoring them and reaching out to them in an attempt to grow the relationship....you can always de activate them later if you have a need...

    That was my FREE merchant advice for the day . . .
    Andy Rodriguez Consulting, Affiliate Program Management and Consulting Services, Since 2001
    www.andyrodriguez.com | E: abw@andyrodriguez.com | P: (888) 931-ANDY (2639) | Skype: affiliatedoctor | AIM & MSN: AffiliateDoctor | Subscribe To Our ABW Forum Posts | Follow me on Twitter | Join Our Affiliate Programs

  12. #12

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    "Nate tells rule following board members not to post in his forum."

    No, SSanf, that's a misrepresentation of what I said. And I didn't say anything that other Manager's haven't stated in the past - if you have an issue or concern please contact us directly for clarification. If you don't get satisfaction privately, than escalate it to our public forum.

    When someone gets rejected from our program, the rejection email clearly states:

    "According to our program Terms & Conditions we reserve the right to deny participation for any reason. If you believe you have been wrongfully denied participation, you are encouraged to reply with your explanation."

    But the first thing Larry did after receiving the rejection email was to post a thread stating "This was a very bad business decision and is a sign of poor affiliate management..." and then the whole situation got way out of line and out of context... well, noone wins in that situation.

    Larry's site, affiliatenetwork.org, was rejected because it's a poorly constructed site, considering the category it's designed to be in. I know that "ugly" sites can outperform "attractive" sites - everyone knows that.

    Andy, I totally respect your opinion and experience. We reject fraudulent apps, parasites, and sites that consist of nothing but banners. Other than that, it's not difficult to get into our program - even with an ugly site. But if your site raises suspicion because it doesn't have the right "earmarks" we will protect our interests, and the interests of our affiliates, by making it more difficult to enter our program with a questionable site.

    SSanf, you're obviously just looking for a fight. "...I told him to get bent..." What are you, twelve years old? Grow up. Please.

    There are numerous people here who have posted their objective opinions in support of our actions. For some reason SSanf and Chocolate Chicken can't see past their own antagonistic natures to try and understand the business nature of a company. There's no reasoning with people like that, so I'm not gonna try any more.

    Thank you, ABestWebber's for being a great part of our business. We enjoy working with you.

  13. #13
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    My big objection to Nate's post was that he was trying to sell his anticipated relationship with affiliates instead of his program.

    The bottom line is can we make money or can't we? All else is window dressing.

    I wish all the merchants would take a page from Andy's book. Some want an AM to babysit them. Some just want you to send the check.

    But, no amount of developing a relationship will help in anyway what so ever unless you have a site that sells and a product people want.

    Additionally, the sites people list are often not the site they want your product for. Sometimes the domain hasn't been purchased yet! Before you reject, why not simply ask what the intent is?
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  14. #14

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    SSanf, thank you for the above, reasoned, well thought-out response. Those I can deal with. I appreciate that you don't feel the need for alot of interaction with an affiliate manager. I presume you are successful in your business model, and if so, that's great.

    Up until March 1st, our affiliate program has been a very low-key aspect of our business model. My primary responsibilities fall into doing SEO on all of our websites, with the affiliate program being secondary. Brad has since joined our team, working with the affiliate program full-time, and already the program is beginning to grow aggressively with his involvement.

    We recognize the value of partnering with affiliates to increase our marketing channels, and I think the 10-12% commission we pay is incredibly appealing. I think our program sells itself - for those who are looking for niche markets like hammocks, dart boards, poker chips, etc. And we want all affiliates - even those who are already very successful - to know that we work with them on an individual basis. Surely you wouldn't object to a personal phone call from Brad to make arrangements for a higher commission rate, would you sanf?

    "Before you reject, why not simply ask what the intent is?"
    That's a splendid idea, but we are constrained by the application form that DirectTrack provides us with. We do ask people to list as many of their websites as possible, as we use those for consideration of acceptance. Generally you can tell from one or two websites if the quality and design are at the level you are searching for. Essentially, we just don't want banner farms, as those simply don't work in most cases.

    Thanks for the good ideas and input. How you say things is as important as what you say.

  15. #15
    Internet Cowboy
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    I just think it is hilarious how ABWers refer to the "Socks Fiasco" in several threads.
    We are on the verge of creating a metaphor with socks.


  16. #16
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Scohaz - How about Sockgate.....

  17. #17
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    I think our program sells itself
    Nate, I still think you are on the wrong tack. No program sells itself. You have to put it out there in front of people and keep it there. And, while 10-12% is attractive, I sell most of the things I sell best at 20% and that is the truth. (And, NO! I am not telling what I sell or who the merchant is or what sites I sell the stuff on! Just trust me that HE is happy with the arrangement!) Getting 10-12% is common place. Heck, Leader has even stated she won't put up items under 10%. I use them as filler.

    So, while your offer is good, it in no way separates you from thousands of other merchant prospects. DO NOT think your program is going to sell itself because that just ain't going to happen. You have to sell it. Of course, deep down you must know that. Hence you are paying for an ABW forum.

    P.S. A little controversy is a great way to keep your forum active and keep your programs in front of people. You're missing the boat, Nate. There are 17 posts in this thread that you SHOULD have wanted to happen in your own forum where your ad is. Every post was a lost opportunity to tell people why they should want to promote your products or tell them what you look for in sites you do approve. It's all marketing.

    In fact, if you are at all quick on the uptake, you should ask Haiko to move the thread to your own forum, at once.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  18. #18

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    What I said was:

    "...I think our program sells itself - for those who are looking for niche markets..."

    I didn't make this as a global statement. I meant that if someone has a hobby site about darts, our 10-12% commission is very appealing and it requires very little encouragement to get them to join.

    "Of course, deep down you must know that."
    Yes, I do, and that is why we actively recruit top-performing affiliates who may not, as yet, have a website related to, say, hammocks.

    I am very aware that many programs pay higher commissions, but I can't compare our stores to a satellite dish company. When you compare Niche stores against similar etailers, you will find that, across the board, we pay much higher commission. We researched heavily and discovered that most of our "competitors" pay 5-7% commission on similar products. From that respect, we are better - plus we have very high conversion rates as compared to other stores.

    "It's all marketing."
    Yes it is, but no one likes "bad press," especially when it results from a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of reality.

  19. #19
    Member Chocolate_Chicken's Avatar
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    "For some reason SSanf and Chocolate Chicken can't see past their own antagonistic natures"

    If you feel antagonized or threatened by constructive and productive criticism, then good luck to you. Luck is the only hope you'll have with an attitude like that.

  20. #20
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Hang on Chocolate Chicken I'm trying to help the guy out a bit, here.

    Bad press is no problem. It is only a challenge to your own skills at handling it. With an open forum, those are skills you really need. I think you have them but just haven't tapped into the resource, yet.

    Added a P.S. above while you were posting.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  21. #21

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    "Every post was a lost opportunity..."

    We've gotten several applicants from ABestWeb today - thanks no doubt to the activity in this and our own forum.

    I've also stated several times already that we do not like banner farms, and that we are suspicious of sites that aren't on par with others in their industry - especially with regards to affiliate marketing directories, as was the case with Mr. Wentz.

  22. #22
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Well, that's good that you got some applicants. Maybe, some will pan out. Glad to help!

    Look at the keywords targeted by those banner farms and below par sites and see where they come up in the SERPS so you don't miss the boat if they do well.

    I think it was again Leader who shared the insight that an affiliate site shouldn't look too polished if you want to sell well. It should be about one step below the site you are sending the prospect to so the "mother" site looks good by comparison.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  23. #23

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    Thanks again, SSanf. Very sage advice.

    Choco-chicken said:
    "If you feel antagonized or threatened by constructive and productive criticism..."

    So, you feel that the following statements, directed at me, are CONSTRUCTIVE?

    "get bent."
    "I wanted to tell him *%&^!"
    "...makes one wonder if maybe HE has something to "hide"."
    "This was a very bad business decision and is a sign of poor affiliate management."
    "another AM who needs to get a life."
    "Here we have a textbook example of what separates streetcorner hustlers from international traders."

    Choc, I can respect SSanf because she has lightened her tone and is taking an active interest in providing feedback that I can actually use. You, however, are not helping at all.

    I'm sure you are a very successful affiliate, and that you have valuable experience you could share with Affiliate Managers. If you can learn to communicate more effectively, perhaps more people will respect you and heed your advice. When someone speaks to me the way you have, I am disinclined to take you seriously or place any value on your statements.

  24. #24
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    >>>we do not like banner farms

    hmmmm . . . some of my newer sites have almost no real content, other than panels of products that are the result of PSC's and the like. One is a month old and google likes it a bit and also it has generated several sales. has to do with collectibles, though.

    another is very similar in build. pushes barbecue grills, patio stuff, game tables and outdoor lighting. I'd add some of your clients' products but won't apply until the site has an actual track record. It gets very little traffic right now.

  25. #25
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate - APM
    I think our program sells itself - for those who are looking for niche markets like hammocks, dart boards, poker chips, etc.
    I've seen your posts and forum, but had no idea what items you sold. I figured it was some sort of niche, but had no idea what. Be careful assuming that your program sells itself.
    Michael Coley
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     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

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