Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28
  1. #1
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Land of The NFL Champs!
    Posts
    2,942
    Question (2006) Can Your Sales Be Stolen?
    I have had success with a particular CB merchant for the last 6 mo or so. Now, for the last 10 days no sales! That, following a $60 day. I am wondering if there is a way for sales to be hijacked or stolen and if so what can I do about it?

    Thanks in advance!
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  2. #2
    Member Vampyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    114
    It's quite easy for sales to be hijacked. All one needs to do is replace your Clickbank ID with their own in the link, and they get the commission rather than you.

  3. #3
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    Or other affiliates to steal your sales through spyware. I've caught many Clickbank affiliates
    advertising through 180solution's Zango Search Assistant, stealing sales that
    belong to others.

  4. #4
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Land of The NFL Champs!
    Posts
    2,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampyre
    It's quite easy for sales to be hijacked. All one needs to do is replace your Clickbank ID with their own in the link, and they get the commission rather than you.
    This would only apply to someone who was buying the e-product and also happened to be a Clickbank affiliate right? If so that would not apply to very many buyers.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    No, not with spyware. The buyer doesn't have to be an affiliate of Clickbank,
    they just have to have the spyware crap on their computer.

  6. #6
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Land of The NFL Champs!
    Posts
    2,942
    If Clickbank allows in spyware as affiliates, then the spyware can overwrite ANY and ALL CB links since any affiliate can "promote" any merchant at any time. The scumware could replace the hoplink via software that redirects the page to a new identical page with the parasite hoplink. They could steal a lot of commissions this way!

    If this is the case, is there a way to mask the link to protect it?
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  7. #7
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Edmonton Canada
    Posts
    5,781
    The afsrc=1 was suposed to protect our affiliate links but the scumbags take no notice of that now just like they take no notice of the COC's and also just like the Networks take no f**king notice of them scumbags stealing our commissions.

    Roll on the day when some of these assoles wind up in nick with a big bubba for a cell mate who has not had sex for 20 years.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    There is no way to mask your link to protect it from this scumware. I just tested
    Zango this morning to see if the new type of hoplink Clickbank is now using
    would stop it, and it does not. In fact, you don't even need to go through a
    Clickbank link at all. I picked a merchant from the marketplace, and entered the
    merchant's domain in the address bar without even going through an affiliate
    link, and I still got a popup for the exact same site from Zango with someone's
    affiliate id. This is one thing merchant's don't realize, this scumware is not only
    stealing from affiliates, but are stealing from the merchant also. If I would have
    purchased this product without going through an affiliate link, the merchant should
    not have had to pay any commission at all, but now the affiliate using Zango to
    popup their site will get the commission that they never earned.

  9. #9
    Newbie
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Posts
    41
    Angry Stolen Daily With Every Click
    Yes, because Clickbank does nothing to protect the affiliate from theft.


    Upon logging into clickbank, has everyone noticed the "new" affilate linking code?

    This is the instructions taken direct from clickbank: http://clickbank.com/hoplinkFAQ.html

    Did you notice the question about cloaking?

    Question 11: I don't want the customers I refer to see my full hoplink url. What is the easiest way to "cloak" my hoplinks?
    The secret is to send the customer to a url of your own that quietly redirects them through the correct hoplink. We recommend using the html below. Don't forget to replace each occurrence of AFFILIATE and VENDOR with the correct value!"

    This is their approved Link Cloaker:

    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="refresh"

    content="2;URL=http://AFFILIATE.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net">
    <script>
    url='http://AFFILIATE.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net';
    if(document.images) { top.location.replace(url); }
    else { top.location.href=url; }
    </script>
    </head>
    <body>Loading
    <a href=http://AFFILIATE.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net>page</a>...
    </body>
    </html>

    This is bogus garbage. Why waste your webspace (which YOU pay for) to create another html file which does nothing but redirect to the original hoplink (without using this code) and results in showing the affilate code (which can be altered by another affilate) and continue to lose your commission?

    In other words, the simple affiliate url link: http://AFFILIATE.VENDOR.hop.clickbank.net

    produces the same landing link as using their bogus "approved linking cloak".

    Since Clickbank pays commission on the LAST affiliates cookie not the FIRST...... you just lost your sales commission.

    Simply do this.... Click on my (any) affiliate url link ......... see the affiliate code????? ...... change it to YOUR affiliate code .......... refresh......... your cookie is now stored (yours being the last cookie, mine being the first cookie) and proceed with the sale........ Congraulations!!!!!!!!! YOU will receive the sales commision from MY efforts and work.

    Whether you use their "approved affiliate cloaking code" and create a NEW html page............. you end up with your affiliate code being displayed to the public, which becomes stolen......... $$$$$$$$ commission in lost sales.

    Peach

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    Actually, most affiliate programs pay the last affiliate, and that is the way it
    should be. If someone comes to my site and buys from my site, I don't care how
    many sites thay have been to before mine, I should get the commission if I convinced
    them to purchase. I don't see any problem with the cloaking code Clickbank
    provided. Your affiliate id will still show in the address bar, but if someone wants to
    get the credit for themself, they don't need your id, they need the merchant's id.
    And the majority of merchants have their id in plain site on the order link on their
    page. If the affiliate cloaked his link using the cloaking method clickbank provided, and
    the merchant cloaked the order link on his page, then it would be harder for others
    to get the commission for themselves. But if the merchant doesn't cloak the order
    link on their page, no amount of cloaking your hoplink is going to make any difference.
    Once they have the merchant's id, it is very simple to just replace their id along
    with the merchants id to create their own hoplink.

    Clicking on an affiliate link whether cloaked or not will still show your id
    in the address bar, like merchantdomain.com/?hop=xxxxx
    But after getting to this page, simply replacing the xxxxx with another id
    will not create a cookie for the other person, you need to go through the
    hoplink for the cookie to be created.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    159
    So, should I drop CB today?
    [URL=]http://www.intelefone.net/voipvincent[/URL]

  12. #12
    More Cheesier Than Ever Cheesehead's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Land of The NFL Champs!
    Posts
    2,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Vincyheat
    So, should I drop CB today?
    No. Since my original post, I made $80 in commissions. I just find the conversion pattern to be a bit curious. I will go 7 days with nothing and then I may get several conversions in an evening.

    I am not too concerned about other affiliates going to my site and changing the hoplink if they wish to buy a CB product. This is not going to happen too often - these affiliates already are familiar with the CB products and if they want one of them they can find it in the marketplace. We are talking about a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the visitors to my pages here. 99 out of 100 people never even heard of CB or any other "affiliate marketing" for that matter.

    I am very concerned about adware applications. It would be so easy to popup on any and all CB products or do a redirect to a new page with modified URL.
    This World is Not My Home
    We're gonna go inside, we're gonna go outside, inside and outside. . . And then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop til we get across that goalline! Quotes from the movie Rudy, 1993

  13. #13
    CPA Network Rep RyanLeadFlash's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 20th, 2005
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    36
    The major problem with CB is ALOT of times a merchants gets FULL credit for a sale and the affiliate loses a TON of sales b/c of this. I made alot of money sending traffic to CB offers, but I would say 10-17% of your sales go to the merchant. Ofcourse the merchant is wondering why his sale shows the full $ amount, but he'll never say anything, esp.. when he sees a bunch of them. It's B/S on most of them esp.. when merchants use a little pop up after leaving and if they can get their email and pull them back to buy it's their sale again. Too many leaks in CB still. CBs hoplinks are *not* full proof for consumer cookies. Trust me, I've been using them too long. Its up to the merchants to use cookies... and b/c of that most merchants don't use them.

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    Ryan Fellman
    Affiliate Manager
    WeGiveCash.com
    Cash-in-1-hour.com
    and coming in Aug/Sept.......LEADFLASH.com

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    November 19th, 2005
    Posts
    2
    Clickbank Commission Theft
    Subject: Clickbank Affiliate Identity Theft.

    Breaking News:

    I filed an online Complaint about Clickbank with the Federal Trade Commission and the Better Business Bureau in Idaho on Tuesday Nov. 15 2005. On Nov. 16 2005 I also filed a Criminal Complaint online with the Local Police in Boise ID against Ms Eileen L. Barber (ID), President of Keynetics Inc., owner of Click Sales Inc (=Clickbank.com) 915 W Jefferson St Boise ID 83702 USA. The text of this complaint is also sent to many Affiliate Internet Forums and to a large number of Online News Agencies and Newspapers.

    Online criminal complaint filed at the Local Police in Boise (ID):

    I would like to file a complaint against Boise Citizin Ms Eileen L. Barber, President of Keynetics Inc., owner of Click Sales Inc (=Clickbank.com) 915 W Jefferson St Boise ID 83702 USA. Her company Clickbank has stolen and is stealing money from me and many other affiliates by allowing Internet Thieves to replace my - and other affiliate ID's with their Own Clickbank Affiliate Id's. The fact that Clickbank willingly and knowingly allows Thieves to become Clickbank affiliates is a criminal act. Below you'll find much more info in the form of a News tip submitted by me to many News Agencies in The USA. Thank you very much. Dick Detering.

    The Text of the complaint, sent to the other entities, is as follows:

    I am an Affiliate of http://www.clickbank.com So my business is e-commerce (selling products online for several Merchants and receiving commissions for sales originating from my websites). From one day to another all my commissions stopped. Complaining with Clickbank only produced standard replies stating that they are doing much to prevent commissions from being stolen. It's sure that I'm the victim of identity theft. Also called affiliate id hijacking/ affiliate username hijack/ cookie stuffing. For more info pls see http://commission-theft.tripod.com and for pure technical info see http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/ As you can see in the Last URL, the real thiefs are 180solutions.com and other "ID Hijack" companies. Then why this complaint against Clickbank.com? Well if Clickbank makes only a few changes in the way they track affiliate commissions (see http://commission-theft.tripod.com), then the problem will soon be over all over the internet, because for sure all the other big Affiliate Marketing Companies will follow the biggest of all: Clickbank. Thousands of affiliates are complaining, but so far nobody thought of filing an official complaint with the FTC, the BBB and the Police. That's why, if the FTC and/or the BBB and/or the Police do something about this huge Internet Fraud, it would be sensational news. Clickbank is closing its eyes for the crimes deliberately: They earn a lot of money from the Merchants and it simply doesn't interest them who receives the commissions: the thieves or the genuine affiliates. And NOT reporting a crime plus even paying the thiefs knowing that they are thieves, is also a crime, isn't it? So Clickbank is willingly and knowingly committing crimes for more than 3 years now! That's my complaint against Clickbank. If the crime can be supported by enough proof, then CB will have to pay millions and millions of dollars to all those affiliates who lost so many commissions due to CB's refusal to take appropriate actions. Click Sales Inc. is a subsidiary of Keynetics Inc. in Idaho. The President of Keynetics is Ms Eileen Barber. Here is the proof that I'm telling the TRUTH: search in Google for: commission theft clickbank and you'll get more than 70,000 websites about this subject! Ask other affiliates and my statement will be confirmed. Type the same or related searches in any Search Engine and you'll see similar results. ETC. Below you'll find the Last of many emails I sent to Clickbank and their Last response:

    My Last email:

    Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 01:16:50 -0800 (PST)
    From: "Dick Detering" < xxxxxx @ yahoo.com>
    Subject: Problem
    To: accounts@clickbank.com

    SECOND REQUEST

    Sorry Clickbank to approach you again with this annoying subject. I have more visitors to my "Click Bank sites" than ever before (appr. 500 per day) and since I have so many visitors there are no more sales!! This proves that some one is STEALING from me. Any other cause should be excluded. Note: all my cloak hoplinks are tested and all of them are set up 100% correctly!!
    Please visit http://clickbanksuccessforum.com/for...pic.php?t=1485 and http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/ for more info on this SCANDAL.
    The ONLY SOLUTION is for Clickbank to alter their "last-affiliate-cookie-set-gets-commission" policy sightly so if a previous affiliate cookie has been set within the last say 5 minutes, it won't be overwritten by the Spyware the customer has on his/her computer (The Thieves like 180solutions.com).

    Thanks.
    Dick Detering, email xxxxxxxx @ yahoo.com

    Last response:

    Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:35:05 -0700
    From: "eca/at/clickbank.com" <eca/at/ clickbank.com>
    To: "Dick Detering" <xxxxxxxx @ yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Security

    Hello Dick,

    Our system has been designed to credit the last affiliate that drove the customer to the website. We feel that this allows the most recent link used to receive the credit that they deserve. We are constantly evaluating our system to make sure that it is fair
    and accurate. We feel that as it stands, our tracking system and referral process is taking care of both of these concerns. We take all feedback from our clients into consideration, so I thank you for sending me your concerns. Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

    Best Regards,
    Elizabeth
    ClickBank Customer Support
    accounts/at/clickbank.com
    www.clickbank.com

    My current reaction/opinion:

    All Clickbank responses have the same content: they are doing nothing wrong while they KNOW that everything IS going wrong! So I gave up trying to convince CB to alter their "last-affiliate-cookie-set-gets-commission" policy sightly so if a previous affiliate cookie has been set within the last say 5 minutes, it won't be overwritten by the Spyware the customer has on his/her computer (The Thieves like 180solutions.com). Complaints with the appropriate entities and news submissions etc are the last option I have. My goal is certainly NOT to destroy CB's reputation. My only Goal is to destroy the criminals victimizing so many affiliates all over the world and to RESTORE CB's reputation by forcing them to really protect their good affiliates against their criminal affiliates like 180solutions.com (Zango Search Assistant) etc, because CB's image has already been effected very negatively during the last 6 months and it's getting worse and worse. But of course I can't do this ALONE. Therefore I ask all victimized affiliates to help me somehow. Please email me so that together we can bring this to a good end.

    Thank you very much!
    Dick Detering.
    email xxxxxxxxxxx @ yahoo.com
    Last edited by Haiko de Poel, Jr.; March 7th, 2007 at 09:53 AM. Reason: user was getting spamed, removed email addy

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    159
    Thanks for all that information. No wonder sales are poor for my clickbank affiliated products. That sucks.
    [URL=]http://www.intelefone.net/voipvincent[/URL]

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    Clickbank actually asked affiliates whether the first or last affiliate should get
    commission in a very popular forum, and the majority of people said the last affiliate
    should get credit. I go along with the majority and say last affiliate should get credit.
    There can be abuses either way, but I feel there is the potential for more abuse
    when the first affiliate gets credit.

  17. #17
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Mansfield, TX
    Posts
    16,232
    What he's suggesting is that the last click still get the sale, but that the click gets "locked" for five minutes and can't be overwritten during that time. It's been suggested here before, too.

    On the surface, it's a good suggestion, but it can still be abused.

    1) If the parasite totally intercepts the affiliate link, rather than following it, it would be totally ineffective.

    2) Picture an end user going through search results looking for something. The first site they visit is a useless site that just stuffs cookies. Under this suggestion, those clicks would get locked. Then, they come to your site, find what they want, click through, and buy it, but since the stuffer's cookie is locked, they get credit instead of you.

    Even with the potential problems, I think this is probably a helpful change, but it's not the elixir that it's made out to be.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
     Affiliate Tips | Merchant Best Practices | Affiliate Friendly? | Couponing | CPA Networks? | ABW Tips | Activating Affiliates
    "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." Nelson Mandela

  18. #18
    ABW Ambassador
    Join Date
    January 17th, 2005
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelColey
    2) Picture an end user going through search results looking for something. The first site they visit is a useless site that just stuffs cookies. Under this suggestion, those clicks would get locked. Then, they come to your site, find what they want, click through, and buy it, but since the stuffer's cookie is locked, they get credit instead of you.
    Exactly. Many affiliates use pay per click search engines to promote
    clickbank products. I think this is the biggest reason why most affiliates
    voted with last affiliate getting credit no matter when the prior link was
    visited. I pay quite a bit of money myself with pay per clicks, and when
    someone buys from visiting my paid ad, I want to get credit for the sale,
    no matter how recently my visitor may have gone through another
    affiliates link.

  19. #19
    Newbie
    Join Date
    October 28th, 2005
    Location
    Slovenia
    Posts
    14
    I propose a simple sollution: if you can't beat them -- join them ) I'm not saying that anyone should be replacing the URL's with their own. Far from that. I hate those guys.

    What I wanted to say was: instead of selling for someone else -- create your own product and have affiliates sell it. For you it's 100% profit. You never get suckered from your commission.

    Hehe, all jokes aside (I know this was a lame one...). Anyway, I've tryed www.linkshield.com and for now it has worked fine. I didn't get any sales yet (I've just set it up). I got some clicks though (it counts clicks and everything). You can also set up a cloaked links. It's good to know how many people clicked through. If you have 250 clickthroughs and no sales you've probably been robed.

    I'd say that the key is to find a product that only gives affiliate links to their customers and then cloaking it. That's my best bet for ClickBank. Any other way you will get robed in a certain %. There are that kind of people out there.

    I've heard that ClickBank is on to people buying from their own link and is banning them. I hope that's true.

    Another suggestion I have is: stop selling products for internet marketers... They are most likely to know how to replace links with their own

    For great marketing tactics I really suggest: http://bestmarketingresource.com

  20. #20
    Newbie
    Join Date
    August 2nd, 2005
    Posts
    16
    This is a scary thread. I'm building a site that is geared toward info products and was planning on being heavily into CB.

    I'm a neanderthal that only last year learned that "html" was not short for "Hot Mail". I've never lost a fight and hit what I shoot at, but dealing with this kind evil is beyond me.

    Are all the wizards on the Dark Side or do they just get the most publicity?

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Caribbean
    Posts
    159
    I was also going to build website specially dedicated to a niche in clickbank but after rewading this tread I am still going to do it, but with a free website www.bravenet.com or www.geocites.yahoo.com.
    [URL=]http://www.intelefone.net/voipvincent[/URL]

  22. #22
    Newbie
    Join Date
    April 16th, 2006
    Posts
    2
    With all this hate for the way clickbank does things why is it that some one has not built a competitor site and takes away much business from them? Really it should not be too hard at all. Does clickbank have some kind of patent or something? Hummm, I will have to check into this. Could be the idea that I have been looking for to get me to my happy place soon.

    I am promoting a few clickbank products and am experiencing the same things as you all are. I really think I am losing a ton of dollars. I am just about to jump in and write my own e-books and sell them to my own customers. 350 clicks per day and way to few sales but yet some days bam, 3 or 4 sales then back to nothing for days but the amount of clicks still is there. I use cloaked pages and track every time one of these pages loads so something bad is going on here.

    ###

  23. #23
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 12th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    310
    There are alternatives to ClickBank such as PayDotCom and PayLoadz. Many of the issues above are not just CB issues when it comes to spyware and buying via your own affiliate link. Other networks have these issues too, and I wouldn't be surprised if the cookie overwriting spyware action is also happening on some high volume poorly monitored in-house merchant affiliate programmes.

    One of CB's strengths is just the sheer volume of products to choose from as an affiliate. Also they have a lot of affiliates so merchants get attracted to them for this reason.

    CB reporting is quite anemic - very little is provided to the affiliate or merchant beyond sales transactions. Download links, link encryption, and conversion by source statistics are also lacking, which has created market opportunities for other add-on tool vendors (e.g. DLGuard).


    Cheers,
    Peter
    [URL=http://www.typoassassin.com/?utm_source=abestweb&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=p&utm_campaign=sig]Are these affiliates stealing from you?[/URL]

  24. #24
    general fuq mrbshouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 18th, 2005
    Location
    Argieville
    Posts
    1,381
    forgive me for asking the obvious, but if you suspect software to be the issue how could it wipe out all sales. Would it not allow visitors who do not have the software installed to complete transactions without interruption?

    It seems to me that if it's an all or none situation, that there would be a fault in either the tracking network or the site that provides the product somehow allowing the cookie to be over written. If 180 is at fault, then they are over writing ON the site in question and i'm not sure how they would do that without having code on the site.


    I've seen the same pattern in other networks, so I'd love to hear more on how this could be done.

  25. #25
    Full Member asr_guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 12th, 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    310
    Anyone interested in spyware/parasites are recommended to ABW Parasite forum

    Lots of good background stuff in there re how it works, who's involved, what you can do about it, etc.
    [URL=http://www.typoassassin.com/?utm_source=abestweb&utm_medium=forum&utm_content=p&utm_campaign=sig]Are these affiliates stealing from you?[/URL]

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Affiliate Generating Sales with Stolen CC
    By avanquest in forum Unethical Affiliates Submissions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 14th, 2008, 12:10 PM
  2. Sales Report Delay 10-10-2006
    By growingdigital in forum Commission Junction - CJ
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: October 12th, 2006, 03:41 PM
  3. How can I find out if my sales are being counted/stolen?
    By Verbalkent in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 10th, 2004, 02:37 PM
  4. % of stolen sales
    By bbb in forum Suspicious Activity!
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: September 15th, 2003, 04:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •