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  1. #1
    Internet Cowboy
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    Some justice after all
    Back when I first started, I applied to a few merchants who turned me down. I am not sure why they did, but I suspect it was because I was new and had no proven track record.
    Now that things are clicking right along, in the past two weeks I have had three of these merchants who initially rejected me send me an offer to join their program. All I can say is toooooo bad folks. Working with me through the hard times gives you the benefit of working with me through the good times. This is a two way street so those offers have been declined.


  2. #2
    Full Member Travelin Man's Avatar
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    Sweet isn't it?

    I've had that experience too. I keep a list of merchants that rejected me early on just so I don't forget.

    I also keep a list of those offline merchants I dump too.

    Glad to hear you're doing well!

    Cheers
    Travelin' Man

    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will lead you there." -- unknown

  3. #3
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    How do you know that you're not turning down something special just because you are holding a grudge? Might make you feel better, but that feeling might be very expensive. I've had the same thing happen, too. However, I look at this situation from a different point of view. To me, my hard work has earned me a seat at a table that I didn't have before the hard work. I don't blame successful companies that want me to prove myself before they invite me in. Makes good business sense to me.

  4. #4
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    Makes better sense to approve all that that have legitimate web sites, and then let the marketplace sort out the successful ones. For example, I have a beaded jewelry web site that I just signed up with Bass Pro, the fishing tackle place. They could have rejected me because my site has nothing to do with outdoor sports. But it turns out a lot of beaders use fishing tackle boxes to store their beads.

    Bass Pro approved me, but if they had rejected me they would have never gotten my business again. I would have linked to Amazon and their sports equipment before coming back to a narrow minded merchant. I haven't found a merchant yet that has a product without its equivalent by some other merchant.

  5. #5
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    Wow. So if you're ever told no by someone, you will never do business with them again?

    If I followed that system, I wouldn't have my wonderful wife that I've been married to for seventeen years.

    I understand what you're saying, just don't agree with your position. Have a great weekend!

  6. #6
    Internet Cowboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhutch
    How do you know that you're not turning down something special just because you are holding a grudge? Might make you feel better, but that feeling might be very expensive. I've had the same thing happen, too. However, I look at this situation from a different point of view. To me, my hard work has earned me a seat at a table that I didn't have before the hard work. I don't blame successful companies that want me to prove myself before they invite me in. Makes good business sense to me.
    I can see that point too. My thinking on this is that things are going OK without them, so it is their loss. As InfoScott said, there is nothing that one merchant has that can't be found at another merchant. This statement may not be true 100% of the time, but certainly the majority of the time it is.


  7. #7
    notary sojac Herb ԿԬ's Avatar
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    those that wouldn't take a chance on me at first just have to wait, now. when I rotate out a non-converter I'll consider them for the replacement.

    I think sometimes we are dealing with AM's who are a bit too sensitive about which way their personal EPC is going.

  8. #8
    Defender of Truth, Justice and the Affiliate Way
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    And AM's can and do change frequently. Don't forget the person who rejected you may not be the person who later sends you an invite.

  9. #9
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    That's right. Remember, that most good things in life don't come easy or just because we want them to. They come after a lot of hard work. I just wonder how many people that are upset about being turned down when they were young in this business, rush to sign up with brand new CJ merchants without any track record? Really, this is the same thing, but only in reverse.

  10. #10
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhutch
    Wow. So if you're ever told no by someone, you will never do business with them again?

    If I followed that system, I wouldn't have my wonderful wife that I've been married to for seventeen years.

    I understand what you're saying, just don't agree with your position. Have a great weekend!
    Obviously your wife has something that no other woman has (besides you), or you wouldn't have married her. See the exception to my logic, above.

  11. #11
    ABW Ambassador ticketguyz's Avatar
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    So what exactly can merchants see regarding our accounts on CJ? Can they see our stats (EPC, commissions, conv. rates)? I don't like the idea of merchants poking around in my business, even if I have an active relationship with them. In fact, what are those merchants allowed to see (stats-wise) regarding their own relationship with me?

  12. #12
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellie aka Ms. B
    And AM's can and do change frequently. Don't forget the person who rejected you may not be the person who later sends you an invite.
    If I'm not mistaken, AMs follow the marketing policy of the organization they represent. Who am I to say that if a merchant selects for "fit" or affiliate size that they are wrong in doing so? I just don't want to do business with those kinds of merchants. Drop me if I don't perform in 90 days, but give me a chance, or I won't give you a chance later.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by infoscott
    Drop me if I don't perform in 90 days, but give me a chance, or I won't give you a chance later.
    Do you offer the same deal to new merchants that sell products that fit your site? Give them a 90 day chance to prove themselves even without a track record? If you do, then you are a fair person indeed.

  14. #14
    Affiliate Manager AmandaM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketguyz
    So what exactly can merchants see regarding our accounts on CJ? Can they see our stats (EPC, commissions, conv. rates)? I don't like the idea of merchants poking around in my business, even if I have an active relationship with them. In fact, what are those merchants allowed to see (stats-wise) regarding their own relationship with me?
    Thought I'd chime in and answer this one. When you first apply, we can view your 3-month and 7-day EPC's, how many bars you have, when you joined CJ, the categories, names, and URL's of your sites, and your promotional methods.

    After you are a member of a program, we can view the same stats, as well as your commission amounts, sales, leads, clicks, impressions, EPC and conversion - but ONLY within our program, not overall. Only the general stats that are displayed when you apply (as listed above) are available to us about your performance across the network.
    [size=2]Amanda Moralis
    The Eastwood Company
    [email="affiliates@eastwood.com"]affiliates AT eastwood.com[/email]
    [url="http://www.eastwood.com/jump.jsp?itemID=34&itemType=CONTENT"]Sign-up Link[/url]
    [/size]

  15. #15
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    "If I'm not mistaken, AMs follow the marketing policy of the organization they represent."

    Depends on the program. Some AM's have have more control than others. Some programs finally get a decent AM and it can make all the difference. Some programs it doesn't matter. Looking at my first sites i don't blame some merchants from rejecting me. Some may change their marketing strategy. Patagonia only lets in outdoor sites and rejected me. In the future they may try a different approach and i would throw them up if they accepted me, i'm sure i would do fine with them.

  16. #16
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhutch
    Do you offer the same deal to new merchants that sell products that fit your site? Give them a 90 day chance to prove themselves even without a track record? If you do, then you are a fair person indeed.
    Indeed, my Boutique site under construction is to give beaders a chance to sell their creations when they felt nobody else would give them a chance; RubyLane, HandCraftedJewelry, even Ebay (because the fees were robbing them). It's up to those designers to tell me if the Boutique site is working out for them. I wouldn't want them to stay if it wasn't. And I don't get a penny from them unless they sell something.

    It's less an issue of fairness than just good business.

  17. #17
    Member infoscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    "If I'm not mistaken, AMs follow the marketing policy of the organization they represent."

    Depends on the program. Some AM's have have more control than others. Some programs finally get a decent AM and it can make all the difference. Some programs it doesn't matter. Looking at my first sites i don't blame some merchants from rejecting me. Some may change their marketing strategy. Patagonia only lets in outdoor sites and rejected me. In the future they may try a different approach and i would throw them up if they accepted me, i'm sure i would do fine with them.
    If it qualifies as a "change of company", I would reconsider. By that I mean substantial change of ownership with different policies in place, change of AM if the AM is exerting that much control over the sales organizations (kind of cart leading the horse IMHO), change or product line and corresponding markets. Basically an overhaul. What I object to in principle is big merchants not needing little affiliates or "misfit" affiliates.

  18. #18
    biz36
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    I would take that opportunity to get a private offer with an increased commission...don't hold a grudge just get even.

  19. #19
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    There are so many merchants why even bother with ones that ever rejected you? The heck with them!
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

  20. #20
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    I kinda look at them as different, the merchant and the affiliate manager for the merchant's affiliate program. The merchant could have hired an affiliate manager that turned out to be a mistake. They didn't keep up with the promotions, didn't recruit well, didn't increase sales from the affiliate channel, maybe rejected your application, whatever. The merchant then hires a more affiliate friendly manager who realizes that little affiliate might grow to be one of your best performing affiliates, they could have a better understanding about affiliate marketing, they could just be better. I'm sure we all know some great ones and some that just suck. I know lots of programs that did a 180 just because they finally a good one. I remember when i first started about hearing a lot of bad things about Eastwood. I heard some affiliates were rejected in the past. Then they got some great AM's and the program turned. Short version see what BLFH said

  21. #21
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Heh, the only one I truly took satisfaction in rejecting was Overture. They had turned me down for tarp specific keywords for my tarp site. It made no sense to me and really ticked me off. They were really being retentive back then. So, when their program opened up at CJ, I joined, was accepted, then specifically turned them down, sent them a note saying their site was not relevant or some such, and quit the program. Joined for the sole reason that I wanted to quit their program and thumb my nose at them.

    Lol, kinda ignorant, and snotty, but I was ticked off.

  22. #22
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Personally I not only decline offers from those who declined my application, I am elated when those places go to 404sville (which they usually DO)!

    I can only remember making 2 exceptions to that rule, and only one of them was worth any kind of a darn, and even that one reversed way too much.

    As for AM change: Without evidence of true policy change, I will not consider this as a factor, because without that evidence there is nothing to make me think the place isn't just as boneheaded as ever. There would have to be something to make me seriously believe that the decliner was just a bad AM... I know that bad AMs may go and do lots of stupid things in the name of "company policy"--policy that they themselves invented. On the other hand, I also know that bad owners often blame the subpar results on their outgoing AM and then go and order the next one to do the exact same things!

    Quote Originally Posted by mhutch
    I just wonder how many people that are upset about being turned down when they were young in this business, rush to sign up with brand new CJ merchants without any track record? Really, this is the same thing, but only in reverse.
    I not only sign up new merchants that I've never heard of, but I give them a lot longer than 3 months to get rolling (unless something starts seeming really crooked about them)! I can even say I do "rush" to sign up with some of them (provided they get past my normal anti-dud/anti-crook filters), because that no-track-record period is also a nice not-much-competition period. There is indeed a greater risk of it being a dud/crook, since there's no EPC data to look at yet, but if it's NOT a dud those are a sweet 3 months. I will note that I wouldn't go and buy PPC ads until I've sent a reasonable amount of free traffic their way and seen results, though.

    @ Elbow--that's all I could think of when I saw Over come in, too... it was definitely a time when prior experience with a merchant was a BAD thing
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  23. #23
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    I was dropped by a merchant I promoted for years. I used to bring lots of sales for them before they got infected by the parasites.

    Had a rude shock when I was dropped for not converting sales.

    Because of their past track record, I was hesitant to replace them with another merchant, but since they dropped me, I switched their links and guess what? Their replacements can convert.

    Turns out they just switched AMs. I'm not going to bother pleading my case with them. They rather have parasites than regular affiliates, so be it. I'll promote stores that appreciate my efforts.

    Is it just my imagination or is CJ actively pushing parasites to merchants, 'educating' merchants by telling them that parasites are ok, and regular affiliates are a bunch of nut cases?

  24. #24
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    Why not just accept whatever offers are extended and then have the option to promote anything and swap in links at any time? As long as the phone number in CJ or LinkShare just goes to an answering machine you won't have to worry about taking calls from them once they decide you are productive enough to work with them.

  25. #25
    Super Sh!t Stirrer SSanf's Avatar
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    Is it just my imagination or is CJ actively pushing parasites to merchants, 'educating' merchants by telling them that parasites are ok, and regular affiliates are a bunch of nut cases?
    Reply With Quote
    Actually, I think that has been pretty well established here by a number of posters.
    Comments are opinion unless otherwise noted. Remember, pillage first. Then burn. Half of all people in the world have IQs under 100. You best learn to trust ol' SSanf!

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