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  1. #1
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Thumbs up What a Great Idea! TODD LOOK!
    Todd,
    I came up with a great idea on how I can get more traffic to my merchants.

    What if I did this..

    I could create a bunch of pages out of my sponsors datafeed, so that I can get the page titles and other info. Now on these pages instead of doing any actual work, I plan on just putting the following in my pages:

    NOTE: ALL < and > have been replaced with ( and ) so this will show up as text...


    (HTML)
    (head)
    (BASE_HREF="http://www.mydomain.com/")
    (META HTTP_EQUIV='refresh' content-"0:URL=http://www.************/click-******-********")
    (TITLE)THIS WILL BE MY TITLE FOR THE PAGE(/TITLE)
    (/HEAD)
    (BODY)
    (/BODY)
    (/HTML)



    This will make it a lot easier for me to make money and do a lot less work.
    I can get all these pages and more listed in the search engines. Now for the best part - when a user finds my pages in the search engines and clicks on one, they will not be taken to MY site - they will be taken directly to the merchant!!!! I will not have to be bothered with them at all...!!! Just sending them to my merchants using this tactic, I can make a lot of money for practically doing nothing!

    Is this NOT the GREATEST idea ever!?
    I can't believe someone hasn't thought of this before now. My god it's simple and requires hardly any work at all. I don't have to worry about what my pages even look like.


    What do you think about this!? Cool IDEA huh?




    EDITED BY ADDHANDLER -- TO GET THE HTML PORTION TO SHOW UP CORRECTLY

  2. #2
    Internet Cowboy
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    Either that or just sign up with MetricsDirect and participate in the hijacking of millions of browsers worldwide. CJ promotes the hijacking of web browsers, but would probably have a problem with you using a meta redirect as you have laid out above.

    Or you could program your own parasitic tool bar and use CJ as a vehicle to distribute it. Contact screensavers.com and get the details of how to convince CJ that it is a legitimate application.


  3. #3
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    heh, are you kidding? please tell me so...

  4. #4
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    if it has the potential to make plenty of sales for CJ merchants CJ will allow it.

    They love to take their cut of any sales no matter how they are aquired.

    If you can think of some way to get others to distibute your stuff and make tons of sales CJ will even promote it to all their merchants for you, they don't care whether the sales are stolen diverted or what just so long as they get their cut that is all that matters.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  5. #5
    Member skishopmatt's Avatar
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    umm..... I'm hoping this is an inside joke.

  6. #6
    Crazy like a fox suzigeek's Avatar
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    I wonder how many sales mydomain.com makes on all the people using it as an example? and also all the backlinks it recieves.

    Now that's an idea!
    Suz~~GearGirl~~

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzigeek
    I wonder how many sales mydomain.com makes on all the people using it as an example? and also all the backlinks it recieves.

    Now that's an idea!
    Lol, yep i bet they get a nice ammount of business from that. Their google PR is awesome

  8. #8
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Well based on the fact that Todd Crawford came in and stayed for about fifteen minutes and decided NOT to respond. Tells me that this is OK...

    Over the last two months I have turned in two people using this tactic:
    I included::
    1. EVERY URL THAT WAS REDIRECTING (OVER 300 PAGES)
    2. THE AFFILIATES ID
    3. THE DOMAIN NAMES OF THE AFFILIATE
    4. THE CONTENTS OF THE HTML PAGES - "The redirect above"

    These people have not been touched! Their pages are still listed in the SEARCH ENGINES - redirecting traffic as a I TYPE THIS MESSAGE...

    So no matter what the Commission Junction - TOS - COC or anything else "SAYS" they find this to be perfectly acceptable.

    I am tired of seeing this kind of CRAP in the SE's - REDIRECTS straight to the merchant! While I spend all day building honest sites with good content!

    I even talked to the MERCHANT themselves.. I sent them everything that I sent CJ -they told me that this was unacceptable - but did nothing.

    After two months! and all the info that I gave them - these pages should have been removed or the affiliate code deactivated if the person did not respond to any communication that MAY or MAY NOT have been sent to him/her..

    SO - if the merchant doesn't mind paying commssions on sales made from using tactics like this. AND - CJ doesn't even respond or try to stop them!
    We might as well ALL do it....!

    Actions Speak Louder than any TOS or COC that any lawyer can come up with.
    CJ - Your actions or lack of them - are making this acceptable behaviour.

    SO if you cannot beat them JOIN THEM...
    CJ will not do anything about it - THAT IS A FACT - Proven here on the boards MANY TIMES OVER..

    So I am off to put about 200 datafeeds onto about 50 domains all with redirects to merchant sites. This will take me about an hour considering there will be no legitimate pages at all, then tomorrow I'll do it again with another 200 datafeeds and another 50 domains! By the time CJ even notices ( EVEN IF SOMEONE TURNS ME IN TODAY ) I will have made thousands of dollars STEALING YOUR COMMISSIONS! What are YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT...! REPORT ME TO CJ.. more power to you ...


    -----------------------
    Of course I am not ACTUALLY going to do this - it goes against everything my MOTHER taught me.. BUT - I would have every right to think that this was acceptable behaviour based on CJ's actions in the past! Think About it...
    THIS SUCKS!

    THANKS TODD - FOR THE CONFIRMATION THAT THIS IS IN FACT ACCEPTABLE!

    Who knows MAYBE I WILL DO IT.....
    Seeing as nobody cares!

  9. #9
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    "I even talked to the MERCHANT themselves.. I sent them everything that I sent CJ -they told me that this was unacceptable - but did nothing."

    Actions speak louder than words. I'm sure the merchant is enjoying the sales, they might think if they don't let them do it, then they could do it for their competitor.

  10. #10
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    TrustNo1 - That was something I didn't consider!
    Makes it a lot worse..
    So they might as well just let him steal from them verses letting him steal from a competitor! WOW what kind f logic is THAT..? a thief is a thief period!
    Stealing is still stealing... allowing it makes them thieves as well!

  11. #11
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    For my money you should out the merchants and give us honest affiliates a chance to drop them.

    But before you do please ask Haiko what his position is on outing someone like this.
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  12. #12
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Damn pitty some merchants, and their AM's, just can't give up the opportunity to plaster Ads, pass out coupons and pester shoppers in their competitors checkout lanes by using B-a-HOs. Worse yet is the merchant's purposely ignoring junk trafficers, cookie stuffers and forced click felons, knowing these wanks wash legitimate value-add affiliate cookies from shoppers sytems, look down their noses at legit affiliates seeing their piss poor conversion ratios. Of couse there're piss poor. The well paid tricksters hijacked the motivated shopper or overwrote the actual referrers cookie. The same lame AM's and merchants then issue bogus commission reversals or filter out high $$$ sales in order to lessen the load of the cookie tricksters.

    Like I said I sure hope some honest merchants get whacked in law suit fines that are coming from gorilla affiliate marketer activities. Then some 3rd party AM heads will roll and the cream of the crop of ABW AM's will rise to the top.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  13. #13
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    GORDON -
    Why so all the honest affiliates drop them! Leaving nothing but dirty rotten thieves to make all the money from their program..??

    I don't know if that would be the best thing or not..

    I just wish CJ would ENFORCE their own TOS - COC..
    ESPECIALLY when given so much information about the individual affiliates breaking their own rules!

    Laws without ENFORCEMENT - might as well NOT BE LAWS..

    IN REALITY -
    If an employee steals from a company they are instantly terminated.
    You never let that employee finish out the YEAR/MONTH/WEEK/DAY/HOUR/MINUTE/SECOND
    They are FIRED INSTANTLY... with CJ - they not only keep working - but keep STEALING!
    That is about as DUMB as it GETS...! IT IS AMAZING TO ME THAT THIS IS ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR -- ANYWHERE..

    Prison Inmates wouldn't even put up with this from OTHER prison inmates!
    Yet here it is in YOUR FACE.. in the real world where there SHOULD be LAWS/RULES/TOS/COC to stop them!

    IT'S JUST CRAZY!

  14. #14
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    ecomcity -
    I guess we should all just JOIN THEM..
    KEEP OUR HONEST SITES on our hard drives until the crap hits the fan then upload the good sites and say "WHAT? WHO ME? NO YOU MUST BE MISTAKEN LOOK AT MY DOMAINS AGAIN"

    IT's just to bad that honest people doing absolutely nothing to stop thieves have left it up to the thieves to decide what is acceptable! RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!

  15. #15
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    Seeing as nobody cares!
    Wrong... 98% of the place thinks it's pure ROT (this is NOT new news at all, sorry!)... Don't take that silence wrong, it's just that this is a "rerun" as opposed to being something new (new is always more shocking)!

    Personally I'm more interested in that ALGO CRACK the site must've discovered to get ranked in the SEs with zero visible content. (It's probably just cloaking, but it may be something better or more adaptable to legit methods [if it's cloaking, you'll probably get better results if you nark on THAT to Google, instead of telling them about the redirect].)

    But whether the competition bothers to put any spin on their sites isn't something I'm inclined to worry about. IMO, another listing in the SEs is still another listing, whether they have redirects or not!

    My logic is:
    1) If you're above them, if you've made the sale it doesn't matter what's below you---and if the customer's left your site you usually lose, whether the next site auto-redirs or the person actively clicks.

    2) And if you're below them, if you get the customer to click your link [assuming you play fair like your mama told you], the other guy's autoset cookie will be overwritten anyway. (If you play like you threaten, then just overwrite the d*mn thing once the searcher gets to you. )

    Fact is ANY top search listing that belongs to a competitor sucks--just for the fact that it is a competing listing--and working to replace one competitor's listing with another competitor's listing for whatever reason strikes me as a patent waste of time. I'd much prefer to just BURY the redirector's listings far under my own, then there's no need to concern myself with his tricks

    Edit--I see some posts came in while I was typing... As for the "piss poor conversion ratios" Mike mentioned, it always *amazes* me that BHOs, redirectors, and the like don't have the worst conversion ratios in the business, seeing how they send all the NONbuyers/dud clicks/window shoppers over to the merchant, unfiltered, along with the buyers!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  16. #16
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    AS far as exposing the merchant - mmm I don't know about that..
    it could lead to a rocky trail I don't want to go down..

  17. #17
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    Report them to the SE. If it is Google, they will mostl likely remove the listings. Report it as if you were a shopper who is appauled by such behavior.


  18. #18
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    AddHandler,


    http://fantomaster.com/

    Fight back.

  19. #19
    ABW Ambassador AddHandler's Avatar
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    Another competitors listings above below or around me doesn't bother me. When in fact it is a legitimate site. My logic is that if they have the content and do the work GREAT for them - I just need to work harder and do things better than I have!
    BUT when it is a LAZY good for nothing redirecting thief - it bothers me A LOT...

    By the way - none of them are listed on GOOGLE.. they are all MSN YAHOO and others.

    The problem is he/she has linked to ALL of these pages from MESSAGE BOARDS ALL OVER THE PLACE! THAT is why they still get listed in MSN and YAHOO.. They do have a little bit of content TITLE and META TAG.. but that is IT..

    This is one thing I forgot to mention - I also sent CJ at least a dozen message boards this person was SPAMMING with his redirect urls.. STILL NOTHING..


    I realize that this is a rerun - but THAT is what makes me so sick about it..
    IT IS A RERUN with no results EVER.. so my point is "WHY NOT JOIN THEM"
    Can anyone give me a valid reason BESIDES doing what my mama told me to..??

    SOMEONE GIVE ME A GOOD REASON NOT TO GO BAD...
    I don't want to be EVIL - but when push comes to shove like it has, and my back is against the wall.. fighting to the death to keep what I have is the only way I know to keep it! If it takes blood gushing from every pore in my body I WILL KEEP WHAT I HAVE.. regardless of laws tos coc or any other bullsh*t....
    PLEASE DO NOT MENTION CJ's TOS OR COC - they are not valid reasons since they are NOT ENFORCED... Niether are ANY MERCHANTS TOS COC..

    GIVE ME A GOOD REASON TO STAY GOOD... The Dark Side is calling my name - and it's getting louder.. My dog is even talking to me telling me "GO AHEAD DO IT"... LOL..

    SOMEONE HELP ME STAY A GOOD BOY...! GIVE ME A VALID REASON>>

  20. #20
    Moderator BurgerBoy's Avatar
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  21. #21
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AddHandler
    ecomcity -
    I guess we should all just JOIN THEM..
    KEEP OUR HONEST SITES on our hard drives until the crap hits the fan then upload the good sites and say "WHAT? WHO ME? NO YOU MUST BE MISTAKEN LOOK AT MY DOMAINS AGAIN"

    IT's just to bad that honest people doing absolutely nothing to stop thieves have left it up to the thieves to decide what is acceptable! RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!
    Well the forced click BHO's have got a taste of my wrath when Microsoft bought and mass deployed Microsoft's Anti-Spyware program. That's why your seeing the perps circling their wagons and going overboard to get re-infestation partnerships. Next up, if this is an affiliate Adwhore run world, will be drastic solutions like www.greenborder.com ,which makes all shopping a session only exercise with no possible way to infect a system with a BHO, virus or a network return day cookie. Nice part is the BHO's require hijacking the system and browser to even display forced cookie popups. Bye Bye BHO's and their network enablers. Now someone entice me to pressure GreenBorder to allow through a priviledge/certified pipeline the network sales tracking cookie....sans all the datamining privacy violating crap. In two years no major affiliate network has done squat to stop getting their tracking cookie blocked by the likes of Norton or Ad blockers.

    The Safe Haven Network Model even florishes for legit commission earnings, even under a session only cookie basis. The merchants networkwide conversion ratio is published just like EPC.... only more meaningful.
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  22. #22
    pph Expert! Gordon's Avatar
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    CJ would ENFORCE their own TOS - COC..
    This ain't never going to happen unless the Law Courts make new laws and enforce them a bloody damned sight better than CJ enforce their COC. CJ and their ilk are quite content to allow anyone and everyone to steal from us so long as they get their cut.

    CJ and their employees are nothing but a bunch of two faced (insert own word here) who have not even got the bloody guts to tell the truth regarding any parasite issues or any perfectly reasonable questions that ABW members ask. They do nothing but evade giving a truthful answer or blow smoke up our *sses.

    But lets not forget we cannot insult them as they are "Your Trusted Third Party"

    Who needs enemies when you have a trusted third party like CJ?
    One day parasites and their ilk will be made illegal, I bet a few Lawyers will be pissed off when the day comes.
    Mr. Spitzer is fetching it nearer

    YouTrek

  23. #23
    Full Member webpartner's Avatar
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    While I admit that this is unethical and supposedly
    forbidden behavior… At this point… I don’t think
    that you can really call it stealing…

    If the merchant has been notified and they are aware
    that they are paying these people… and they choose
    to take no action… then... by their inaction, they are
    condoning these people and thereby agreeing to pay them

    Given those circumstances… I don’t think it’s really stealing…
    I think it sucks… but I don’t think it’s technically stealing…

    Trust made a good point about their competitors… so maybe
    they see it more like… paying protection money to the mob...

    SOMEONE HELP ME STAY A GOOD BOY...!

    Now I see why you wanted to change your name when your
    friend left… you didn’t want to be a boy named Suze…
    <Font size="1" color="99000">Never doubt anybody's word for anything... but... Always double check everything... - Grandpa</font>

  24. #24
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Good blog of links to show the real merchants, not their AM's pimping for the Adwhores, covers how their getting bled dry by all the PPCSE's unable to stop click frauds.... http://www.bluxer.com/index.php

    Add in the automation tools to manipulate the SERPs with doorway/phantom pages, shadow domains, like the infamous... fantomas shadowMaker™
    http://fantomaster.com/fashadowmaker0.html and you'll see the trickster attack dogs at the traffic sources forcing cookies with no value-add necessary. Then the POS (Point of Sale) attack dogs take over, via BHO's, as the networks throw all their weight and energy into monitizing the SEO/SEM tricksters and browser spammers.

    Time for a real merchant management revolt on the abuses designed to deplete their Ad budgets. Haiko can sell "Adwhores Gone Wild" T-shirts as I devise a way to create a Safe Haven for duped shoppers, merchants and legit affiliates. OUT a bad actor and you get their commission balance as they get etched in the Safe Haven "Hall of Shame".
    Webmaster's... Mike and Charlie

    "What have you done today to put real value into a referral click...from a shoppers viewpoint!"

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    SOMEONE HELP ME STAY A GOOD BOY...! GIVE ME A VALID REASON>>
    GIVE ME A GOOD REASON TO STAY GOOD... The Dark Side is calling my name - and it's getting louder.. My dog is even talking to me telling me "GO AHEAD DO IT"... LOL..
    Sorry, but I really can't give a reason, beyond this:
    "I don't want to be EVIL"

    You have to be able to live with yourself... That is really about IT! Your own morality is the only real set of brakes.

    It's true that some merchants would drop you (they are not ALL crooks), and you'd get flamed into ashes here on ABW, but that's not a deterrant to the truly shady.

    I will say that I've thought the same types of things as you many times, only not with the redirects but with 180...the DarkSide tries to get me into the vortex too. The fact that I can't, in general, make myself HATE those people gives the D.S. ideas I think

    Like a cartoon, I get the devil/angel type thing going...the devil on one shoulder saying, "it won't matter what your SE ranks are if you just do it...call 180 Solutions, then no matter who's on top, you just EAT their commissions muaa haa haa...ABWers, pshaw, let 'em ***** so what, go on, DO IT call 180, CJ doesn't care!!! Do you know it's 85 in FL right now? That's 30 degrees warmer than where you are. Playing it straight already made you freeze one more winter, how long are you going to let that happen?? Call 'em, go on, their number's just a click away...you know the URL...you can find the number there..."

    But the Angel on the other side always says, "Don't touch that phone or type in that URL! If someone disses your site, don't you want to be able to say that they're smoking something?! You don't want to be SCUM do you? It IS stealing, too, you know that, that's why you didn't sign up right away...they're just *saying* it's 'advertising,' but it's NOT...real advertisers use their own billboards... This isn't Rome: Total War (which isn't hurt if the config is changed so it CAN'T win); real people will be hurt if you jimmy with the cookies!"

    Then I continue to refrain from opening an account at 180...

    I will add that I agree with WebPartner about redirects not technically being stealing (like I said before, a listing's a listing, to me...), but I don't do cookie-stuffing either. I figure that if they can find my page, the people who want to buy will click my tracking link, no need to cookie-stuff.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

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