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  1. #1
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    Yesterday, November 27, GigaGolf officially dropped eBates from our affiliate program. From all signs the predatory practice has continued despite the Nov 7th meeting.

    And, just to prove we're right, this morning my co-worker "has a problem with linkshare." He has specific favorites set up in IE to access our site. As of this morning, he was getting an "Expired Page" error from LinkShare.

    Turns out he had installed Weatherbug and selected "eBates" as the sponsor. The app installed Mo Money Maker on his machine and was taking over his direct links to our own website.

    So the story goes...

    Mark Wolinski
    Affiliate Relations
    GigaGolf, Inc.
    800-724-3085

  2. #2
    Affiliate Manager Allen Nance's Avatar
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    Big vote to Gigagolf for joining the stance against parasites!

    Now if only I can get more traffic to my golf page to covert to sales!

    Allen

  3. #3
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    - - - - - - - -
    Turns out he had installed Weatherbug and selected "eBates" as the sponsor. The app installed Mo Money Maker on his machine and was taking over his direct links to our own website.
    - - - - - - - -


    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    Jeeze, what a pain! I did build up a page on Gigagolf, I'll talk to you after Thanksgiving sometime, and see if I can't actually start generating some sales.

    Thanks for taking a stand!

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  4. #4
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    Thanks Mark for taking a stance against the ebates. I don't have you promoted right now but will look into your program.

  5. #5
    ABW Ambassador flamingoworld's Avatar
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    Thanks! Just got my links up. Got any good coupons to list?

    Connie Berg
    www.flamingoworld.com


  6. #6
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    A couple of responses here...

    Coupons, we do weekly specials, check our home page. I'm going to start sending out weekly e-mails with the info in them for our active affiliates (1 click within 30 days).

    However, quickly, our current specials are: $20 off a set of Acer XDS Wide Sole irons (Coupon: 4002) great set of irons for a beginner or high scorer. $25 off an HRG 2 Titanium Driver (Coupon: 8888) Both of these are good through Dec 3rd (at least, sometimes they get extended another week, sometimes we change out). We do have a set of coupon banners that I rotate the graphic on when we change as well.

    Okay, when I first looked at the parasite issue, I did an analysis of what eBates was doing. For about 3 days at the beginning of November, here's what I found. (Realize, we've never been a big eBates site anyways, but I'm sure others could extrapolate the data out).

    For that period, there were initial 32 accesses with the eBates LinkShare ID one them. 8 of them were clearly from eBates website (known because of the referring URL). Of the 24 remaining, 9 of them were Mo Money Maker redirects, assumed because of the initial access by the IP with one ID on it and then the next access with eBates ID within typically 10 seconds. The remaining 15 were of an unknown origin, in that I couldn't determine where they linked to our site from.

    So, 1/4 came from eBates, 1/4 were stolen from other affiliates. Okay, that's half our traffic accounted for. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Finally, of those 9 redirects, 3 were redirects of our own Overture CPC links. I don't handle our CPC side, but if you figure $0.80 average CPC (probably lower), if those 3 redirects were converted into sales, the cost of those sales would have gone from $2.40 to possible over $45.

    Well then..

    Mark Wolinski
    Affiliate Relations
    GigaGolf, Inc.
    800-724-3085

  7. #7
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Mark-
    It would be interesting if one could extrapolate the commissions given to eBates for the entire merchant base, where a direct URL was redirected into a commissionable link! I bet that number is very, very large.

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  8. #8
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    Mark,
    Just signed up for your program. I think I can work some of your links up on one of my sites. I’m still new at this affiliate game, so don’t expect the world. Maybe if I start working on a golf site now, though, I’ll be in good shape when spring rolls around.

    Jason
    “That’s the song I’ve been sangin for years, that’s the way the wild wind blows” – Robert Earl Keen

  9. #9
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    quote:
    Originally posted by elbowcreek:
    It would be interesting if one could extrapolate the commissions given to eBates for the entire merchant base, where a direct URL was redirected into a commissionable link! I bet that number is very, very large.


    I'm sure that would be interesting, however, one weeks worth of logs for our site is a file over 150MB (and we're not a big site compared to some other folks here). I can't find an application that lets me open a file that big and if I do, it tends to crash my machine. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Mark Wolinski
    Affiliate Relations
    GigaGolf, Inc.
    800-724-3085

  10. #10
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Mark W:
    9 of them were Mo Money Maker redirects, assumed because of the initial access by the IP with one ID on it and then the next access with eBates ID within typically 10 seconds.



    This post kinda popped a light bulb above my head.
    I don't know how affiliates would feel about, but I thinks it's possible.

    What if the networks were set up to track like ppc programs. Usually with those once a click is tracked then any additional clicks from the same IP address are not recorded for 'x minutes'. Wouldn't this diminish the effects of ebates & others?
    I know the idea is to stop the practice altogether, and it's not the end all solution. I'm just thinking there are ways the networks could use their tracking scripts to combat the problem also..

    Richard White
    AffiliateFirst Directory
    AffiliateFirst Submission Services

  11. #11
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Bare Necessities considered that approach a couple of months ago, but I believe there were some mixed reviews... I don't think they persued it.

    I Will FOCUS On My Goal

  12. #12
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    Wanted EVERYONE to know that SportsBasement has dropped EBATES as an affiliate. Their software is deadly and I won't have it.
    visit us at www.sportsbasement.com. All the best
    Lisa
    Lisa Carrieri
    Marketing

  13. #13
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well I'll yank some under performing golf and general sportings merchants to showcase GigaGolf. Take some time and make some DHTML half page diaplys like OverStock and ColdWater Creek does at Linkshare. Those get updated as you see some hot sellers or can be themed for seasonal promotions of major Golf Tournaments. I'll plop in some individual sets of clubs and popular putters & the golf accessories.

    I'll even mix in some Overstock deals just to make sure your still price sensitive as the local stores discount everything. If EastLake Golf Club comes through with my proof of a hole-in-one and double eagle in the same round there in the 70's I'll expand the page into a golf shrine.

    WebMaster Mike

  14. #14
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    Connie and Allen! Ive got some great links up now and coupons since now EBATES is GONE for good.
    all the best
    SportsBasement.com

  15. #15
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Well Mark you got me to buildout thta Golfing page and add your links in other sporting goods section of my Cybermalls. ... www.ecomcity.com/webworld/golf.htm I also updated some of the links for other merchants there and like I promised stuck Overstock there to see if eBates and WhenU suck off their sales from my traffic.

    Interesting when I saw Golfballs.com links looked like a double URL and didn't show a landing page. I replaced them and WHALLA the damn eBates Moe Money install swapps my ID and fugggs up their redirected landing page. http://www.golfballs.com&siteid=rqcq...6HhgYl9DG3bkjw

    2nd try .. http://www.golfballs.com&siteid=rqcq.../l8VJSk7SGtBAw

    3rd try http://www.golfballs.com&siteid=rqcq...uEiDnuHQlsK8jQ

    4th try .. http://www.golfballs.com&siteid=rqcq...sopLWxIg2rHzHQ

    different everytime and none work.
    Either Linkshares interface to eBates is screwed up or eBates just hasn't a clue on how to refine their theftware BHO plugin. I left a Golfballs banner on my from page for all those here with eBates installed to test this out. I e-mails a curt explaination to Golfballs to see if they respond.

    WebMaster Mike

  16. #16
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    quote:
    Originally posted by EcomCity.com:
    Well Mark you got me to buildout thta Golfing page and add your links in other sporting goods section of my Cybermalls. ... http://www.ecomcity.com/webworld/golf.htm I also updated some of the links for other merchants there and like I promised stuck Overstock there to see if eBates and WhenU suck off their sales from my traffic.


    Mike,

    Nice looking page there. I'll be upfront with you, right now GigaGolf is not going to participate in the DRM program from LinkShare. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about prices LinkShare charges to merchants, but there is a large upfront cost to "activate" DRMs, which we're not willing to pay at this time (being the off season for golf, and all that).

    Not to say you won't get a DHTML solution. DRM's are nice, but they're essentially used right now for individual product links. Add in that I'm a much better programmer then I am an AM, I've already whipped up some code that feeds dynamic javascript to web pages. I'm still playing around with it, deciding how functional I want want it to be, but it does work at this time.

    When I'm ready to give it a test, I'll let you be the first to try it out. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Mark Wolinski
    Affiliate Relations
    GigaGolf, Inc.

  17. #17
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    As much as I dislike LS, I thought I'd give you a try. So I signed into my LS account, typed "golf" in the box and you did not show up. I even typed in giga-golf and it still did not show you. I clicked on "sports" from the directory, but you are not there.

    So I checked CJ, and you aren't there either.

    So I went to your home page http://gigagolf.com/

    and could find nothing there about your affiliate program...

    So... what's going on?

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  18. #18
    Outsourced Program Manager Chris -  AMWSO's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Good to see more Merchants taking the right stance, however the war starts with the stance, taking the stance means that Ebates and WhenU will now actively target you for their other Scum Merchant Partners in your business area, we have already been Targeted by WhenU with pop ups appearing all over our site for WhenU users (the latest download) , we are taking this issue to Linkshare and to the Merchants involved, we will then follow up with the courts if the polite approach doesn't work.

    Welcome to the war. Down the line I think combinned legal action much like the hotels are doing against Gator will be the way to go against Ebates and WhenU etc.

    Cheers

    Chris

    Chris Sanderson
    Mondera.com Partner Management
    90 Return Days : 100% Parasite Free : Fast Support : Commission on ALL Sales.

    Visit the Mondera Partner Support Zone : Click Here

  19. #19
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    I agree, When u and ebates needs to be pulled out of business when there techniques. I installed save now from somewhere and it's still showing up in my registry by aluria's software, does anyone know how to remove registry keys from windows xp?

    Jason

    Santa Cruz, CA 95060

  20. #20
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Would be nice if the merchants who don't want their domains being taken over by WhenU, LimeWire, KaZZaa, iWon or the other "incent" Dupers like eBates could program their sites to give a electric shock to the users mouse when they arrive with this garbage installed. Their is no reason within the affiliate pay for performance industry for "incent" sites to exist. Merchants should post the spiffs on their sites or with e-mail offers to repeat shoppers. If they just lowered their prices by the amount doled out to "incent" affiliates they'd get more business.

    The con-men -Direct marketers -P2P music thieves -Opt-out spammers -MLMers and the drege of the Internet advertising community feed off of loyality shopping clubs, coupons and rebates. I'm sick of AM's feeding coupons and doubling commissions to this "incent" group, who's whole game is to sell advertising and perloin commissions from feeding up competitor Ads on someone elses domains. Just like FREEBEEs .."incented" or rewards sites are destined for the internet trash heep as their management is all driven by greed. A good price on a in-demand product -better service and a working shopping cart ..not some idiot $5.00 off a one hundred dollar purchase coupon will drive online sales this Christmas.



    WebMaster Mike

  21. #21
    ABW Veteran jc101's Avatar
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    I agree EcomCity.com with most of your posting, however not all freebie sites are bad. sure of course I got a domain with the word "freebie" in it but my site does not support these greedy parasites. Anyway I agree no one wants $5 off a $100 purchase these days. people are looking for good prices, like tiger direct deals, overstock deals, etc. They want good reliable quality products, and good customer service too.

    Jason

    Santa Cruz, CA 95060

  22. #22
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    quote:
    Originally posted by AffJus:
    As much as I dislike LS, I thought I'd give you a try. So I signed into my LS account, typed "golf" in the box and you did not show up. I even typed in giga-golf and it still did not show you. I clicked on "sports" from the directory, but you are not there.

    So I checked CJ, and you aren't there either.

    So I went to your home page http://gigagolf.com/

    and could find nothing there about your affiliate program...

    So... what's going on?

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.


    If we're not listed in the directory at LinkShare, chances are you are already signed up to our program (check the Create Links area).

    No we don't have any affiliate information on our website. That's going to be one of my projects in January. As in December, I'm working on a complete redesign of our home page. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Mark Wolinski
    Affiliate Relations
    GigaGolf, Inc.
    800-724-3085

  23. #23
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    Kudos Mark @ Gigagolf and Lisa @ Sportsbasement!

    quote:

    As much as I dislike LS, I thought I'd give you a try. So I signed into my LS account, typed "golf" in the box and you did not show up. I even typed in giga-golf and it still did not show you. I clicked on "sports" from the directory, but you are not there.


    GigaGolf is a LS merchant listed there as GigaGolf.com.

    quote:

    I agree, When u and ebates needs to be pulled out of business when there techniques.

    ? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
    quote:

    I installed save now from somewhere and it's still showing up in my registry by aluria's software, does anyone know how to remove registry keys from windows xp?

    Did Adaware leave the registry keys? It should eliminate all traces, I thought. If not.. submit a bug report. That is scary...

    Good Luck!

    --
    ...only in the affiliates interest...
    The Newer Nicer Joseph [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  24. #24
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    quote:
    If we're not listed in the directory at LinkShare, chances are you are already signed up to our program (check the Create Links area).



    ahh... okay. thanks. I forgot about that LS bug.

    http://SearchToSale.com - Turns your search box into money.

  25. #25
    2005 Linkshare Golden Link Award Winner  ecomcity's Avatar
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    Some of the P2P parasitic BHO crowd are fixing to get into deep legal hassles as they take ob the big buck corporate world...
    "Tuesday, December 03, 2002
    File-Sharing Case Arguments Open Up

    by Paul Wilborn



    Lawyers representing record companies and movie studios argued in federal court Monday that companies marketing file-sharing services encourage illegal copying of music and movies.

    Lawyers for the sharing services said they can't control what users do with their software.

    The arguments were made in a hearing seeking summary judgment in a lawsuit against the popular file-sharing services Grokster, StreamCast, which distributes the Morpheus peer-to-peer software, and Kazaa. It is similar to previous cases in which courts essentially shut down the file-sharing services Napster and Aimster.

    Both sides are seeking summary judgment.

    U.S. District Judge Stephen Wilson took no immediate action, but promised to make a ruling later. He did not say when that would be.

    The file-sharing services are different from Napster, their attorneys argued, because they only provide software and help using that software.

    The services don't offer a list of songs and movies to users, but links do lead users to such lists, lawyers for the plaintiffs argued.

    People using file-swapping services for illegal infringement are no different than people using a copy machine to illegally copy a book or a piece of sheet music, argued Charles Baker, a lawyer for one of the services.

    But a lawyer for film studios said the services were designed around illegal downloading of music and movies.

    "They have created a place where infringement can take place," argued David Kendall, who represents six movie studios, including Fox, Disney and Paramount.

    Songwriters Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, responsible for such hits as "Hound Dog" and "Jailhouse Rock," are among the plaintiffs and were in the courtroom Monday. The song writing duo said illegal copying of music and movies was costing artists millions and would ultimately stifle creativity.

    "We think it is important for us to be here," Leiber said. "This could be a disaster for our culture."

    But Steve Griffin, CEO of Streamcast, said his company only provides a way for people to communicate with each other.

    "I think the judge understands this is a very complex case and is really about the future of the Internet," Griffin said.

    The plaintiffs are asking for the services to be closed down and that the companies be ordered to pay damages that could run into "many, many millions," said record industry attorney Russell J. Frackman.


    The Associated Press, Newsbytes

    WebMaster Mike

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