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  1. #1
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    Google Manually Rating Websites?
    Seems Google is using human intervention in their search results. http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/002028.html

    This has opened my eyes. Start building value into your sites now if you haven't already.

  2. #2
    Moderator MichaelColey's Avatar
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    I would certainly welcome that change.
    Michael Coley
    Amazing-Bargains.com
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  3. #3
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    While we are on the topic of building value into sites let's list some ways to do this:

    - Product reviews
    - Price comparison
    - Discussion forums

    More...

  4. #4
    A Real *and* Darn Cool Member! lstolze's Avatar
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    How much value is in related articles for content...? I plan on adding articles on my niche, but wonder, is that enough? I don't know if I would qualify as a 'typical' online shopper, but I am loathe to read lengthy articles online. Not sure why. Short attention span created by television...? Is it safe to say that a more interactive content approach, as PreacherMan suggests, may be a better way to go? Or do you implement all these in the hopes of covering all bases...? One thing I have always done on my main site is tell people, if you can't find it here, contact me and I'll find it. And people do contact me, and I will research it. Even if I can't find the product through a commission venue, I still send them the link to the product. That being said, that isn't a tangible value for search engines, but it makes me feel good to offer it to make my customers happy.
    ~Lisa - Brilliant Mastermind, or Nut? You decide!

  5. #5
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I need more evidence to believe this story... I see a lot of evidence that leads me to believe it's just not true. But change is inevitable, maybe this is true and just not visible yet... Internet is kinda big - I mentally index it each morning via Google API download to my medulla, but the analysis of it all takes me until sometime after lunch...

    Got any empirical examples?

  6. #6
    Domain Addict / Formerly known as elbowcreek Thomas A. Rice's Avatar
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    Given the inadequacies of DMOZ, and the number of ways people go about 'working' their algorithm for ranking sites, I would be surprised if Google didn't rely on some sort of human filter into the equation.
    Following everyone else is a GREAT way to become average.

  7. #7
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    That might explain why my formerly top-performing site is on page 20 now.

    The other data centers put it anywhere between #8 and #14 in the SERPs for the targetted phrase. I think it's time to find an alternative to adsense in protest.

  8. #8
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    The Google Bourbon update is still taking place though weisinator. Hang on in there. GoogleGuy recently said over at WebmasterWorld that the update is currently 0.5 complete out of a 3.5 change (his words - very confusing). The majority of the update is still to take place over the next two weeks.

  9. #9
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    Maybe I shouldn't fret, my product pages still rank well, just not the front page of the site.

  10. #10
    Influencer Marketing GravityFed's Avatar
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    Open Source Evidence? http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/29713.htm

    This was also a breath of fresh air to me.. a very vocal GoogleGuy http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/29720.htm

  11. #11
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    Product pages are the pages you want visitors to land on anyways, very very targeted = better conversion

    BTW here is the flash movie showing the alleged human rating interface at Google http://www.searchbistro.com/exit.php...19&entry_id=19

  12. #12
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmarcoccia
    Open Source Evidence?
    Nope. Was looking for evidence of "Google Manually Rating Websites?"

  13. #13
    Lite On The Do, Heavy On The Nuts Donuts's Avatar
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    I thought this thread was asserting Google used manual ratings for Search Engine Results Pages (SERPs).

    If you and I owned Google, we might commission some people to rank a bunch of sites and then compare that to our algorithm's rankings - to see how they stack up. As a quality test of sorts. Or maybe to research new ways to judge sites.

    If the software in the movie existed, it could be many things - an experiment like I mentioned above, a hoax, a playful april fools joke, and a lot more.

    If anyone wants to assert that Google is ranking sites (the SERPs rankings), let's examine some facts. Otherwise, I'll leave this alone as an interesting little side story that is for amusements sake.

  14. #14
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    Ok that may be the case but don't forget TrustRank and the fact that for it to work a select seed of sites are chosen. That would tie nicely into this 'experiment'.

  15. #15
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    Thumbs down
    GG can dump it in my garden along with the rest of their fertilizer...he definitely keeps the compost bins well stocked.

    Another pure propaganda campaign to scare the "problem" into going away on its own IMO. This isn't the first time they've put out dis/misinformation, and it won't be the last. If they've got any "human reviewers" at all, it's (probably) just the same guys they've always had (the ones who check the spam reports...when they bother to check 'em). Imagine manually looking at grains of beach sand and trying to judge their quality and you get the idea of the real magnitude of this so-called project.


    I don't know if I would qualify as a 'typical' online shopper, but I am loathe to read lengthy articles online. Not sure why.
    I would think that's typical.

    As for why--Same reason you wouldn't want to read them when shopping in a physical store. Your task at hand is securing the item you went to the store for, and you want to accomplish that--NOT read a bunch of stuff. Articles are "in the way" when you've gone to a site for a purpose other than reading.

    As for me, when I'm shopping, I'm not going to appreciate any content, for the reasons I just mentioned. But when I'm NOT shopping, I'm willing to read plenty of stuff, long articles, etc. If I'm looking for information (or just to kill time) reading, however, I'm not willing to stop reading in order to buy things!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  16. #16
    The Thin White Duke PreacherMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    Imagine manually looking at grains of beach sand and trying to judge their quality and you get the idea of the real magnitude of this so-called project.
    I agree with you 100% that it is just impossible to put every site through some sort of manual review process but do you not agree that it is feasible that certain websites that trigger something can then be included for manual review?

  17. #17
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    Is there one thing or two things going on here with the manual checking.

    Someone last week either here or at webmasterworld mentioned TrustRank.

    It turns out there is a white paper called "Combating Web Spam with Trust Rank" which can be downloaded.

    My take on reading it, and ignoring all the maths equations (full of summation[?]symbols) that my brain can't cope with these days, is that there are a list of "seed" site and pages is complied which are considered to be authorities (e.g. government, companies such as IBM etc) and these are used as starting points to generate a TrustRank network (as opposed to the current Google PageRank) network.

    So is this paper the basis for the manual checking that people are talking about now, or is there something else throwing up pages failed as iffy or randomly for manual checking ?

    Les

  18. #18
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    do you not agree that it is feasible that certain websites that trigger something can then be included for manual review?
    Only in a nitpickingly literal kind of way.

    As for an algorithmic trigger--no. I think any such programmed trigger would return so many results, that it's swamp a human team. Kind of like when an all-points-bulletin lists a suspect as being "male, 5-foot-8 with brownish hair, brown eyes, and wearing a baseball cap."

    I think that if Google gets a bunch of spam reports on a particular site, it may trigger them to look. But that's nothing new.
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  19. #19
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    Of course Google can't human-index everything. But they can human-index a lot, and likely sites that they receive complaints about.

    I was searching for a battery for my pocketwatch some months ago. I put in a wide variety of terms to try to find a good source, but all I found were hundreds of spammy pages with text-only raw affiliate links. I gave up and went to the corner jeweller.

    Lots of people have the same experience with sites that serve no other purpose than to game the engine.

    Is it too much to ask that a site that wants this human to fork over some money be designed for humans?

    That's all Google's asking for. Add value to the web, and the effort will be rewarded. Add nothing unique to the web, and it will fall into obscurity - if not today then one day.

    AI content analysis algos are getting very, very good. They can grade term papers now, so they can certainly distinguish botfodder sites from earnest shopping experiences.

    Google will not need by-hand analysis much longer....
    Richard Gaskin
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  20. #20
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    AI content analysis algos are getting very, very good. They can grade term papers now,
    Wa ha ha! I would've been sooo torn if they had that when I was in school.

    Write the term paper, or spam it??

    I did just fine writing on essay tests, but it would've been more fun to crack their algo, if only to prove that the school wasn't some infallible god.
    Is it too much to ask that a site that wants this human to fork over some money be designed for humans?
    If the humans are willing to click through the site (or buy from it, depending on its objective)--then a resounding YES it's too much, to ask webmasters to tamper with what WORKS!
    (And if they're NOT willing to click through and/or buy from it, the $0 in commission will get the design changed faster than anything Google can do...)

    Add value to the web,
    Ach... "The web" isn't some kind of higher concept to be bowed to, any more than a physical highway. Highways are there to serve those on them--not the other way around!
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherMan
    Product pages are the pages you want visitors to land on anyways, very very targeted = better conversion
    I get twice as many sales with 1000 people at 7% overall conversion than 100 people at 35% overall conversion.

    Visitors get to the products either way.

  22. #22
    ABW Adviser Panel Dynamoo's Avatar
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    Hah..... that would certainly explain a lot. My big traffic site is definitely under some sort of penalty.. now I can see what it probably is.

    Anybody notice if the visitors from the rater hub have a particular IP address?
    Innovative advertising with Slimeware Corporation and Telephore. Mail-order fuel with Petrol Direct.

  23. #23
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    http://www.searchbistro.com/

    Think just reading that page says it all.

  24. #24
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    When I was having the ammo issue with the ppc on google, I don't remember the exact wording but the way I read it is that Google doesn't human review for search results. They wanted to make clear that the ppc issue would not impact how my sites show in the search engine.

    I know policies change but in the past Google did not want to hurt itself on issues of censorship or what some perceive as prejudice. They may allow the biases of the dmoz editors into their search equation but I can't believe they would want to hurt themselves with the very issues that makes the dmoz largely worthless.

    Human review. I don't think so. It goes too against what Google has always been most proud of. Brilliant programming code.

    And yeah, I still hate google but I can't help but respect them even as I cuss them.

  25. #25
    Resident Genius and Staunch Capitalist Leader's Avatar
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    What OnthePond said. I don't buy it either. I think SearchBistro is misreading the signals. I also doubt the authenticity of the screenshot. My intuition is screaming "BS!" And, I see a few clinkers that don't require intuition, too.

    Making a fake Google page wouldn't be difficult. It may be real, but there's a good chance that it isn't, so I'm going on to that link to the j*b.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustNo1
    http://www.searchbistro.com/

    Think just reading that page says it all.
    It doesn't add up right. Link to j*b:
    Kelly Job?!

    Location: SPAIN??
    Native-level fluency in Dutch, Italian, Spanish, or French
    In-depth, up-to-date familiarity with the web culture of at least one predominantly Dutch, Italian, Spanish, or French-speaking country.

    Moderate ability to read and write in English.
    Whatever they're really rating, it's not going to be the US stuff.

    Candidates will evaluate search results and rate their relevance. Thus, all candidates must be web-savvy and analytical, have excellent web research skills and a broad range of interests. Specific areas of expertise are highly desirable.
    General SERP results don't need specific expertise...

    If the j*b's legit, they're making a huge mistake in another place:

    KELLY JOB. If you've ever done any Kelly jobs that says terabytes right there!
    Kelly = a place where those who can't/won't keep a job, meet companies who can't keep employees.

    And, the j*b is *temporary.* But, Google knows that the idea of forcing a site to the top of it, is permanent!

    If this is actually a beta test of a bigger lousy plan, then hiring Kelly is the best thing they could have done...from an affiliate's standpoint...
    There is no knowledge that is not power. ~Hemingway

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